The HARD TRUTH about EVs

[MG0h3]

There's a trade-off between motor efficiency and size. The torque comes along for the ride. Minimizing electron consumption at low loads (highest use case / most miles driven at a specific torque/amp load) drives the selection of appropriate sized large motors. The extra torque is just available to use as far as the cooling systems allow.

Smaller motors result in less efficiency at a given torque/amp and therefore higher amp draw and less vehicle range.

The vehicle weight is driven by the batteries, which have trade offs as well.

Like everything everywhere, there are trade offs to be made. There are very few win- wins in life; most everything is a balance of competing oppositions.

Ok so big motor with load limiting built in.

But again, this isn’t about the planet.

I throw my recycling in the normal trash now too.


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[HudsonFalcon]

It's not about "saving the planet."

Of course not. It’s always about control.

Now eat your bug burger, get your booster and be a good lemming.

Sorry, not changing my lifestyle because the sun is hot and the winters are cold.

 

[ViperRed91GT]

I've asked before why they can't use smaller motors, smaller battery packs (and lighter weights) to extend range. EVer's tell me it doesn't matter, but I'm not buying it if an EV was designed from the ground up for max range, and 0-60 in the 7 second range.

They already can exceed current range, but there isn’t much reason to most of the time. More money for no real gain. Most people don’t need to drive that far in one charge, and if they do, and choose to drive an EV, then they’ve already planned their charging stops.

Furthermore, at least with Tesla’s specifically, you can disengage the larger rear motor, increasing efficiency. It will automatically kick in over a certain load or slippage.

 

[Lambeau]

They already can exceed current range, but there isn’t much reason to most of the time. More money for no real gain. Most people don’t need to drive that far in one charge, and if they do, and choose to drive an EV, then they’ve already planned their charging stops.

 

[OX1]

There's a trade-off between motor efficiency and size. The torque comes along for the ride. Minimizing electron consumption at low loads (highest use case / most miles driven at a specific torque/amp load) drives the selection of appropriate sized large motors. The extra torque is just available to use as far as the cooling systems allow.

Smaller motors result in less efficiency at a given torque/amp and therefore higher amp draw and less vehicle range.

The vehicle weight is driven by the batteries, which have trade offs as well.

Like everything everywhere, there are trade offs to be made. There are very few win- wins in life; most everything is a balance of competing oppositions.

Simplistic regurgitation of the EV cultist talking points. You actually answered nothing.

 

[OX1]

View attachment 1775378

Plenty of range regret issues, even for my niece's husband who a Tesla, was the ONLY car he was getting, no matter what (and his first car, @ 26 years old).

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Simplistic regurgitation of the EV cultist talking points. You actually answered nothing.

Part of my professional engineering career is designing and applying electric motors into large refrigeration screw compressors. The motor tech is the same/similar.

 

[gimmie11s]

View attachment 1775378

Dont you love it when that happens?? lmao

 

[Lambeau]

Dont you love it when that happens?? lmao

I do.

I'm actually waiting for the day when someone uses that on one of my posts -

 

[OX1]

Part of my professional engineering career is designing and applying electric motors into large refrigeration screw compressors. The motor tech is the same/similar.

Then lay out the answer in detail (with the math) in why there is NO WAY EV's can't be made lighter overall (as said, designed that way from the get go), I'm a mech engr for the Navy for 36 years (and have plenty of electronics in the systems I work on/with), dad was an electrician (which I could also easily do), had my own car stereo business back in the day, etc... If you really know that much, enlighten us.

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Then lay out the answer in detail (with the math) in why there is NO WAY EV's can't be made lighter overall (as said, designed that way from the get go), I'm a mech engr for the Navy for 36 years (and have plenty of electronics in the systems I work on/with), dad was an electrician (which I could also easily do), had my own car stereo business back in the day, etc... If you really know that much, enlighten us.

First, I'm no BEV fan or battery expert, but I know electric motors.

Second, the weight is in the batteries, not the motors. The motors are actually quite lightweight. Autos can be made lighter with smaller batteries with much shorter range. The density of lithium ion batteries appears to be 260 wh/kg. Want more energy storage? Then you'll need more kg of batteries. The batteries / energy storage is where the entire BEV narrative falls on its face. Existing battery tech is definitely not ready for wide spread mandates. I suppose an iterative model could be generated using vehicle weight, required torque and efficiency based on desired target average speed, required motor packaging dimensions, expectations of battery, motor, and occupant heating/cooling loads, resultant HP and then convert required range of propulsion battery watt-hours into HP using drive efficiency, motor efficiency, and battery conversion efficiency, add in the cooling/heating system kWh and arrive at an estimate kWh and predict battery energy storage requirements. This iterative model would eventually generate a moving front in which appropriate weight vs range could be selected amongst the key input variables and desired engineering and marketing requirements.

Third, not typing a novel here of complete auto design theory and trade offs. By the way, I think I mentioned that I design compressors.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Look into Ariel's new project they're calling just the Hypercar at the moment. It's basically a full bodies Atom with electric motors making 1150hp, and has an optional turbine jet to extend range. Range is only 150 miles because they can't fit the same amount of batteries in as say a Tesla. With the turbine option it still comes in at over 3k pounds which is considered light by electric car standards. To me, that's still considerably heavy for an electric car with only a 150 mile range.

 

[OX1]

I suppose an iterative model could be generated using vehicle weight, required torque and efficiency based on desired target average speed, required motor packaging dimensions, expectations of battery, motor, and occupant heating/cooling loads, resultant HP and then convert required range of propulsion battery watt-hours into HP using drive efficiency, motor efficiency, and battery conversion efficiency, add in the cooling/heating system kWh and arrive at an estimate kWh and predict battery energy storage requirements.

Until someone points me to where this was done, and the manufacturers/gov't that is trying to ram these down our throats, proves to me EV's are being designed first and foremost to "save the planet", I'll just keep calling BS on what they are putting out.

Speaking of which, another EV FAIL!!!

Viral Tesla With Gasoline Generator On The Back In Ukraine Might Not Be So Special | Carscoops

Rumors circulating on the web suggest that this is now a hybrid in response to unpredictable Ukrainian power grids

www.carscoops.com

 

[Imatk]

The best thing about EV cars, IMHO, is they compete with ICE cars.

Imagine how high the gas would be now if there wasn't an alternative.

I doubt I'll ever own an EV but I'm really glad they exist and I hope people keep buying them en masse.

 

[Rb0891]

The best thing about EV cars, IMHO, is they compete with ICE cars.

Imagine how high the gas would be now if there wasn't an alternative.

I doubt I'll ever own an EV but I'm really glad they exist and I hope people keep buying them en masse.

Is there really data out there showing the miniscule amount of EV's are affecting gas prices in any way?

 

[blk02edge]

Is there really data out there showing the miniscule amount of EV's are affecting gas prices in any way?

I'm going to guess 100% no

 

[Imatk]

It's kind of just a common sense thing. You know simple supply-side economics.

But whatever... I couldn't give two much of a crap about any of it.

 

[Rb0891]

It's kind of just a common sense thing. You know simple supply-side economics.

But whatever... I couldn't give two much of a crap about any of it.

Oh. I was curious if this was documented, but my general feel is me losing 20lbs would have about the same effect.

 

[Klaus]

 

[Klaus]

Because the vision is you don't own the car.

You WILL eat the bugs.