This must be coyote13's car. Damn impressive.
New "Torque Booster" Package for Paxton / Vortech coyote cars
- Thread starter beefcake
- Start date
9.7lbs of boost with wastegate vs FULL boost with 3.33 and wastegate forced closed. (Vise grip mod pinching the boost line!)
oh, ok
do you have the graph of what it dyno'd stock pullied overlayed with the wastegate
that's what we want to see, lol!
3.33 all out, way too much for stock engine
I've been waiting to see one of yours as I've sold a few to guys that have you doing the tuning, last I saw by coyote'13 (if that's his car was 550 rwhp)
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3.6" Pulley on an 11M6 with full exhaust (longtubes) vs the 13M6 3.33 wastegated setup on E85 from yesterday (stock headers, off-road exhaust).
Same TiVCT, same Air fuel, same ignition timing, different cars and therefore this comparison is flawed, but still interesting to look at.
Same TiVCT, same Air fuel, same ignition timing, different cars and therefore this comparison is flawed, but still interesting to look at.
oh, ok
do you have the graph of what it dyno'd stock pullied overlayed with the wastegate
that's what we want to see, lol!
3.33 all out, way too much for stock engine
I've been waiting to see one of yours as I've sold a few to guys that have you doing the tuning, last I saw by coyote'13 (if that's his car was 550 rwhp)
Unfortunately no. Customer drove a few hours to see me and did not bring the stock pulley...actually he forgot is Xcal too! LOL
Yes, Coyote'13 I believe is his screen name, but that 550 was on a different dyno.
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yea, that doesn't help a ton, i'd like to see the same car with close to the same psi for a valid comparison.
3.6 is already into more boost than what the wastegate would have, but still a nice pickup lower on.
i'm sure you'll have more coming in.
yes, post it up
I was thinking about this and I wasn't going to name my old tuner. Basically the majority of mods have been done using information from SVTP. So with that in mind I would be doing SVTP an injustice. I'll leave out the details of my experience for the moment. Let's just say I was disappointed to say the least.
JPC tuned on "92 octane" these are dynojet numbers
The difference between this tune other than the jumpy power is lethal o/r h pipe, 3.33 wastegated @ 9.7psi, e85, and swapped from a vortech bap to JmS.
JPC tuned on "92 octane" these are dynojet numbers
The difference between this tune other than the jumpy power is lethal o/r h pipe, 3.33 wastegated @ 9.7psi, e85, and swapped from a vortech bap to JmS.
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I was thinking about this and I wasn't going to name my old tuner. Basically the majority of mods have been done using information from SVTP. So with that in mind I would be doing SVTP an injustice. I'll leave out the details of my experience for the moment. Let's just say I was disappointed to say the least.
JPC tuned on "92 octane"
The difference between this tune other than the jumpy power is lethal o/r h pipe, 3.33 wastedgated @ 9.7psi, e85, and swapped from a vortech bap to JmS.
so the SOP difference ought to be pretty good then with the torque booster, especially with the e85!
+140hp and +170 ft/lbs
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Had one of these setups on the dyno yesterday.
Below is a run with the 3.33 pulley and 9.7lb Wastegate spring on E85 vs another run on the same tune where I pinched the Boost line to the Wastegate to achieve full boost. *Note* I let out early as we ran out of fuel pump. We typically see these setups peak a few hundred RPM higher than the attached graph.
My Impressions:
Sure does give up a LOT of top end power for a small bump in torque. Not an ideal setup for a 1/4 mile drag race IMO.
Otherwise tuning was a breeze.
Shaun, Does this guy have the Boss 302 intake mani? weird how the power drops so hard with the wastegate setup after 7k rpm... you would think if its bleeding the boost it would be flat lined after 7k im kinnda confused with the results. I have this setup coming in the mail next week and plan to dyno test it with the full return fuel system as well. this will be on diffrent dyno then the first tune but at least it will give us a closer idea of what this wastegate setup does on e85 and a boss manifold.
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Understandable, do u think it will be much different with the boss manifold? I know I was seeing a peak psi of 9.2 on the stock pulley so moving to the 3.33 I should see a slight increase to 9.8 so top en hp will increase?
it is going to change the boost curve, but it will still net more power, torque, and e.t.
to be honest. The comparison graph without the wastegate should not be part of this thread.
It is IMO irresponsible to even think about running that kind of boost on a stock engine.
We would never even try to throw that kind of boost at a car, even with e85 and a complete return system. The car would be a ticking time bomb.
This is for the guy that is running a stock pulley, and wants to crank it up a notch, but not worry about breaking his internals.
if your already on a 3.6 pulley, then you can always go up 1 set of springs and limit boost at the same level as the 3.6 pulley.
if your on an 8 rib, then you can set on kill with a 3.15 high traction. and limit again, to 9 to 11 psi.
the product works just as it's designed to.
Again, someone that is running a 3.33 pulley already, this would not benefit them in the least, without going to at least a 3.15.
The wastegated setup compared with the stock graph is what you should be looking at.
It has to lose top end power with this setup. It's spinning the blower harder which takes more power plus the inlet temps are going to rise do to the increased blower speed.
The big question is weather or not the torque gain offsets the horsepower loss. Track times will answer that.
The big question is weather or not the torque gain offsets the horsepower loss. Track times will answer that.
I think some people are confusing the point in this setup.
You are going to run a smaller pulley in order to spin the blower faster but bleed off the boost up top to EQUAL what you started out with for PEAK boost. Your not comparing the setup with the same pulley. That would be pointless.
So, SAME peak boost but down low you will have more boost = more torque. The peak hp should not change is you are at the same boost level.
Spinning the blower more will heat the charge up but it shouldn't be to the point where it effects HP unless you are out of the range of efficiency.
You are going to run a smaller pulley in order to spin the blower faster but bleed off the boost up top to EQUAL what you started out with for PEAK boost. Your not comparing the setup with the same pulley. That would be pointless.
So, SAME peak boost but down low you will have more boost = more torque. The peak hp should not change is you are at the same boost level.
Spinning the blower more will heat the charge up but it shouldn't be to the point where it effects HP unless you are out of the range of efficiency.
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No matter what, it takes more power to spin the blower faster. Also the more you compress the air the more heat you produce (a efficient compressor helps) however the simple act of compressing makes heat.
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The air is not being compressed any more than it would at peak boost on a 9psi pulley. The extra boost is being dumped by the gate which won't affect heat much. The gear case of the blower will heat up more but iat should be no different than a turbo at 9spi with a good intercooler.
on a standard centri, you are usually making peak power at redline, with this setup, peak power will come on sooner, as you are hitting peak boost sooner.
the curve will look different. as far as how it performs, we have already tested the setup. with .1 less boost, we picked up .37 in the 1/4, we picked up over 5mph, we picked up 24 peak hp with 89 hp in the midrange. we picked up over 70ft/lbs peak, and over 85 mid range.
it's all in the first post.
the curve will look different. as far as how it performs, we have already tested the setup. with .1 less boost, we picked up .37 in the 1/4, we picked up over 5mph, we picked up 24 peak hp with 89 hp in the midrange. we picked up over 70ft/lbs peak, and over 85 mid range.
it's all in the first post.
LOL at irresponsible.
2200lb inertia drum runs with me closely watching things while running quality fuel is not irresponsible.
It is true changing pulies changes the efficiency of the blower. By how much depends on the change and you can read the compressor map to get an idea of this change. You could actually increase the efficiency and make more power per lb/boost in the right circumstance, but you can easily go the opposite way as well. Having the wastegate post intercooler does not help with effiency of the intercooler either.
I think this is a fine setup for those that want more TQ and LOWER peak RPM, but take an A6 that's shifted at 7600 (because it makes peak power at 7400+) and you will greatly effect ET/MPH by going with a wastegated setup as Peak RPM will be significantly reduced, which means gear and shift point changes, not simply a bolt on and go run faster. Sure, power will be increased up to that point, but why limit RPM? And if you want more TQ why not go with a possitive displacement blower or Turbo?
Centrifical blowers are the only supercharges that gain boost with RPM and IMO that's their only benfit over a TVS or Whipple, so why take that away from them?
2200lb inertia drum runs with me closely watching things while running quality fuel is not irresponsible.
It is true changing pulies changes the efficiency of the blower. By how much depends on the change and you can read the compressor map to get an idea of this change. You could actually increase the efficiency and make more power per lb/boost in the right circumstance, but you can easily go the opposite way as well. Having the wastegate post intercooler does not help with effiency of the intercooler either.
I think this is a fine setup for those that want more TQ and LOWER peak RPM, but take an A6 that's shifted at 7600 (because it makes peak power at 7400+) and you will greatly effect ET/MPH by going with a wastegated setup as Peak RPM will be significantly reduced, which means gear and shift point changes, not simply a bolt on and go run faster. Sure, power will be increased up to that point, but why limit RPM? And if you want more TQ why not go with a possitive displacement blower or Turbo?
Centrifical blowers are the only supercharges that gain boost with RPM and IMO that's their only benfit over a TVS or Whipple, so why take that away from them?
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