Fuel Pump Failure FYI:

[SILVER-BULLET]

FYI I measured the outlet port of the stock fuel hat the other day.
Inner diameter measured .185". (Less than 1/5th of an inch)
By contrast the 2007 GT500 hat we measured was .250" ID at the hat.

Volume = area x length
So we can calculate the added volume in % by using the area of each and dividing them by each other.
The math says .250" will flow 82% more than .185" ID.

IMO we are pushing a rediculous amount of fuel thru a .185" ID fuel fitting. 700 on E85 is enough fuel for 1000 on gasoline. I can't see how we would not have excessive pressure before this restriction in the hat when a BAP added.

I think the BAP + E85 = fuel pump failure is due to added head pressure of running more than 17.5v from the BAP's, which you would never need to do on gasoline.

What if we find a way to enlarge the opening, and run a larger line to the rails (if necessary)? This thread reminds me of the "fuel line upgrade" kits for the returnless 03/04 Cobras.

 

[twistedneck]

Guess I'll be going back to pump gas until this is figured out.

Why? just cut the volts back.. I guess i'll be staying with E85.

 

[nosscort]

What about na cars with a Bap because of nitrous? And running e85 but sometimes switch to 93 because of either weather or availability when traveling? Bap is a non programmable vortech unit with 47lbs in..

Anything on this question? :shrug:

 

[me32]

Me 32. I never said kills pumps.. I said kills fuel system. I started my career in the automotive engineering field. When I have a question I call my friends who are still in it.. simply put the fuel system parts are purchased items. When sourced from the vendor the parts were not engineered to be e85 safe. It was never a requirement from the start, so did the vendor use e85 safe materials? Is the filter e85 safe? It apparent it's not sized for it. Look at the forward thinking put into the mustang. If it was as easy as a tune and injectors to run our cars to 100,000 miles on e85 and gain 30 horse don't you think ford would have that kit? E85 can be impressive. But do it right.

I kinda understand what you are trying to say, but the issue that people are having are not from E85 itself. its the overload of the pump trying to shove more fuel through a tiny whole. which is why people that are N/A are not having these issues. also the car was made to make 420-450HP N/A (624 S/C) but in this hobby we like to push things to make the car car faster. so trying to make700HP on E85 on a system that was made supply 624HP with a blower kit on pump gas sometimes issues arise.

Seen a couple people say something like " thanks Shaun for bringing E85 pump failures to light".. Read dudes, not what he said. And it's the work load, not fuel elements correct?

Guess the uneducated naysayers can just miss the benefits of it

it happens all the time.

 

[me32]

Almost all gas in the US now has at least E10, others now have E15 and E20. better get use to Ethonal in your gas.

 

[Eric@jpc]

Anything on this question? :shrug:

we smoked a Pump in a nitrous car like 2 weeks ago

Bap comes on when the nitrous is armed

It smoked the pump idling on the dyno

 

[ghostrider7953]

You're supposed to drink corn sqeezins not put it in your gas tank; even you Cali & Yankee boys should know that. On the serious side .... a small engine mechanic told me that ethanol is great for his business; it causes added moisture and gunks up the plastic floats. Are there plastic pieces in our fuel pumps ? floats ?

I know its a simple observation but sometimes we over sophisticate things.

 

[Eric@jpc]

You're supposed to drink corn sqeezins not put it in your gas tank; even you Cali & Yankee boys should know that. On the serious side .... a small engine mechanic told me that ethanol is great for his business; it causes added moisture and gunks up the plastic floats. Are there plastic pieces in our fuel pumps ? floats ?

I know its a simple observation but sometimes we over sophisticate things.

No floats

Floats are for carbs

 

[SteveG@Lethal]

we smoked a Pump in a nitrous car like 2 weeks ago

Bap comes on when the nitrous is armed

It smoked the pump idling on the dyno

And to add to this, we have seen people with stock pumps without BAP's burn up too on E85.

NA & nitrous. But it is 2 out of 20 people if I had to make a educated guess.

And this is not with just our tunes.

 

[burke985]

Almost all gas in the US now has at least E10, others now have E15 and E20. better get use to Ethonal in your gas.

I could care less about ethanol in my fuel

 

[ghostrider7953]

Floats, diaphragms and jets are in a carb ; I agree. Our fuel pumps are full of plastic pieces is the point I was trying to make.

 

[me32]

I could care less about ethanol in my fuel

that nice oke:

neither do I.

 

[BV600]

Seen a couple people say something like " thanks Shaun for bringing E85 pump failures to light".. Read dudes, not what he said. And it's the work load, not fuel elements correct?

Guess the uneducated naysayers can just miss the benefits of it

What the hell, did you just question your own statement?

 

[JUIC3D]

My KB BAP has been on at maximum voltage for about 9-10k miles now with no issues. I had the intention of putting it on the nitrous arm switch but got lazy and just wired it to run all the time.

I'm sure it could go at any moment but so far so good and the car is raced pretty much anytime it is taken out of the garage (weekends).

Just my $.02 from my own personal experience

 

[silverstang9120]

What if we find a way to enlarge the opening, and run a larger line to the rails (if necessary)? This thread reminds me of the "fuel line upgrade" kits for the returnless 03/04 Cobras.

wondering the same thing??? seem to work on the cobras.

 

[RFM50]

So to me it seems like the added volume that has to be run for e85 is to much when you add in a bap for the stock pump. Now if you take out the bap for e85 this problem will go away but you won't have enough volume to run the e85 and make the high numbers people are making. Now if you run pump gas this problem should be rare because your not pumping as much volume through the pump as you would on e85. Did I sum that up right?

 

[me32]

So to me it seems like the added volume that has to be run for e85 is to much when you add in a bap for the stock pump. Now if you take out the bap for e85 this problem will go away but you won't have enough volume to run the e85 and make the high numbers people are making. Now if you run pump gas this problem should be rare because your not pumping as much volume through the pump as you would on e85. Did I sum that up right?

Sounds about right. Glad you got it. Some of the others have a hard time understanding.

 

[RFM50]

Sounds about right. Glad you got it. Some of the others have a hard time understanding.

Thanks hopefully that will help them understand better.

 

[dead man walkin]

We are close to agreeing, I just don't like when people post e85 is great and safe for everything!! I gains 80 hp and accidentally spilled some on my foot and it cured my gout and my limp is gone. The vapors cured my cancer... it seems according to some tuners e85 is killing pumps without the bap's . E85 contains less energy than gas.. so you need roughly 1/3 more e85 than gas. It's saving grace is higher octane. Which you can really gain an advantage with higher compression, enter heads , pistons, or forced induction however to get the real numbers you can get you need to upgrade the fuel system. . Which seeing as this fuel system isn't designed to handle e85.. should be a step in the process to be safe, otherwise you are doing it wrong. That's what I'm saying

 

[SC_Terminator]

What if we find a way to enlarge the opening.........

I was thinking this same thing.....could we enlarge the hat to fuel line/filter connection and eliminate the raised head pressure and save the pump?