Fuel Pump Failure FYI:

[Shaun@AED]

I wanted to inform the community about a fuel pump failure we ran into this last weekend on the dyno.

2013 A6 TVS on E85 and Gasoline (car dipped into the 9's previously).
4100 miles, mostly street. Around 2 dozen 1/4 mile passes.

I was re-tuning on a larger pulley and gasoline to drop power down for street use now that the car had run single digits. 4 runs in and everything was fine. 5th run we ran out of fuel at 7200, 6th run ran out of fuel at 6K.
We checked the voltage at the fuel pump (volt meter on the harness under the back seat while making a dyno run) and saw a steady 18.5 volts (JMS BAP at 70%). This verified the BAP was working properly.

Car still drove and ran fine, but the fuel pump is going out and could no longer support 600RW SAE on gasoline with 18.5 volts.

We are not sure if this is an isolated issue or not as this car exhibited fuel delivery issues previously on E85 at the drag strip. We'd originally had the JMS BAP at 21 volts. Dropping it down to 19.5 (75% on the dial) resolved the fueling issue at the time. We are still not sure if it was pump cavitation or something else.

Just an FYI to all.
At this point we are unsure if it's a 'faulty' factory pump, or if it was taken out from head pressure, voltage, or some other cause.

 

[04compgt]

With only 4100 miles and that little bit of passes, makes me wonder what the issue really was or if it was a faulty fuel pump from the factory. I honestly feel that e85 does not damage the pump since I have been on e85 for 30K+ miles and my car is my daily driver with a lot of dragstrip time. But I refuse to put a fuel pump booster on my car due to having fuel pump issues in my last vehicles from them. I feel that at any power level that requires more fuel pump a proper fuel system needs to be installed instead of placing a band aid to try to reach those goals. A fuel system is cheaper than a new motor. Good find as always Shaun thanks for keeping the community informed.

 

[ArtVandalay16]

Mine went out exactly how you describe. E85, vortech BAP, 8k on BAP/2k on E85. Interesting.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I do not believe it is E85 related.
I'm leaning towards excessive Head Pressure, which is due to the restrictions in the factory Hat and a BAP would compound this issue.
I do not believe it is the BAP itself that caused the problem.

Prior testing has shown a restriction in the factory hat that bigger pumps and more voltage can not overcome. Another indication Head pressure may be the cause, or a faulty factory pump, or a combination of the 2.

 

[Aaron@JPCRacing]

We've seen several pumps fail in E85 with a BAP.

This is why we recommend a return style fuel system for most high (600+) horsepower E85 applications. The 465 pumps are specifically designed for E85 use.

 

[BV600]

We've seen several pumps fail in E85 with a BAP.

This is why we recommend a return style fuel system for most high (600+) horsepower E85 applications. The 465 pumps are specifically designed for E85 use.

Well this sucks, I was planning on stock pump with BAP and E85.
Is there any stock pump uprgrades for E85 and 600-750whp without spending 1200+

 

[gremlinsteve]

ive been wondering if a stock pump can hold e85 on a boosted application for long.
i think for safety sake ill upgrade the whole system.

thanks for the info

 

[ajpturbo]

If you read the tech article on kenne bell's site I think they say that a BAP may actually be better for a fuel pump because it regulates the voltage among other things. It's an informative read. I wouldn't consider a BAP a bandaid. They go out of their way to address the question of " can excessive voltage be bad for a pump"?

But I don't they don't recommend the 21 volt competition BAP for a street car...They say use the 17.5 volt.

Might be worth a read

 

[truebluedevil02]

I know a few people with the stock pump, BAP and E85 who have logged quite a few miles. I do however think it is "A band aid on a broken leg" so to speak. I am interested in the BBR "jackal" fuel system but I am concerned with reliability of the A1000 pump. I will never need the support of a triple pump system and I feel as though the duel pump system is also over kill and to expensive to justify since I will only be making +-650whp on E85. Perhaps it would just be better to change the stock pump out for a new stock unit once a year?

 

[Aaron@JPCRacing]

ive been wondering if a stock pump can hold e85 on a boosted application for long.
i think for safety sake ill upgrade the whole system.

thanks for the info

Now I'm not saying every car with E85 and a BAP will fail. It's just that all the pumps that we have had issues with happened to have the same combination. It's just food for thought. We had one car fail within just a few days while others have lasted months.

We just prefer a complete system that's proven to be E85 compatible for the long run. As far as gasoline goes though we have not seen a 2011+ car drop a pump yet.

 

[slagburn]

I know a few people with the stock pump, BAP and E85 who have logged quite a few miles. I do however think it is "A band aid on a broken leg" so to speak. I am interested in the BBR "jackal" fuel system but I am concerned with reliability of the A1000 pump. I will never need the support of a triple pump system and I feel as though the duel pump system is also over kill and to expensive to justify since I will only be making +-650whp on E85. Perhaps it would just be better to change the stock pump out for a new stock unit once a year?

I've got a cherry one owner pump ready for your first service interval :lol:

 

[SteveG@Lethal]

We've seen several pumps fail in E85 with a BAP.

x3

Many people with factory pumps on e85 are going bad lately. The factory pumps were never designed to run E85 so their is no knowing how long they can last. This is also on E85 cars with NO BAP.

Why we also recommend return style systems that were designed for pump and corn.

 

[cb900f]

So there are some people with E85 w/ BAP failing. How about just a BAP? Seen any failures?

 

[SteveG@Lethal]

I know we haven't seen any pump gas failures.

And E85 guys have had their stock pumps go bad without BAPs

 

[CPRsm]

Never seen a gas failure on these either. But sure it's from E85 owners pishing voltage theu the roof. I don't see how spinning a pump harder and faster cannot be seen as better for a pump. Or that it won't shorten the life. None of the pumps I've seen lock up. Performance only fades over time.

 

[Tuffnuts23]

If only there was a fuel system that could grow with the car???

 

[CPRsm]

I see what you did there lol. Shaun will be helping test soon.

 

[Tuffnuts23]

lol. Good to hear!

 

[beefcake]

I agree, these 700+hp e85 cars i keep seeing, def recommend a fuel system in it's place

 

[Eric@jpc]

lets be real

Its not like these are flex fuel cars. Same thing happens if you put a 255 in E85 it will lock up. There is not enough oil in the fuel to lubricate the pump.

There already is a fuel system that will grow with the car.
The JPC and Fore Kit, Run 2 pumps now and if you need more add a 3rd pump.

I cant see anyone needing more then that in a street car.