I can't argue with you because I haven't done the research to know the values of the cars you listed. I can tell you this though, I don't value any of those vehicles you mentioned and I certainly wouldn't pay 30k for an Iroc. lol
THE FUTURE COLLECTIBILITY AND VALUE OF OUR 2013/2014 SHELBY GT500s...
- Thread starter USV8PWR
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I can't argue with you because I haven't done the research to know the values of the cars you listed. I can tell you this though, I don't value any of those vehicles you mentioned and I certainly wouldn't pay 30k for an Iroc. lol
I am not buying some of that. I doubt we will see the 5.8 again. Lots of speculation to build hype. Seems foolish to me to brag it will be in the new car with irs while lots of 14's wait for new owners. Think the road course guys would not buy and wait for the 15
What would you like to know? There have been quite a few models from the 70's and 80's that have begun to go up in value. Those are two great examples. There are also the Grand Nationals, 1993 SVT Cobra/Cobra R, 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am, etc. It comes down to a few primary and very simple things with these cars. First, their production was limited, the cars quickly became unappreciated/abused and the result is that most of them by now have been worn out, destroyed or extremely modified leaving much fewer well taken care of examples around today. Additionally and just as important, although their performance/technology is not on par by today's standards the fact remains that they were still some of the best America had to offer in their time period; they even define that time period automotivewise. And finally, you will notice that a lot of folks simply desire to purchase the vehicles that they lusted for, but could not afford, when they were growing up thus creating a bidding war on the few remaining examples today and ultimately driving up price for the few remaining clean examples out there available for sale.
We had a Mustang cruise on Saturday and while there were many Mustangs present from all years, there was not one Fox Body there. It blew my mind! You used to see those cars everywhere, but as time goes on many have been destroyed or are junk leaving much fewer decent ones on the road; especially the low mileage unmolested examples.
I don't think any on here really believe this big thirsty engine will continue on. I read what C&D and MT print with a grain of salt. I find much better info on these boards from folks in the know and sites like Jalopnik. But yes to answer your question, if the engine continued and the cars got better (as I stated in my original thread) these cars will be worth less until there are very few of them left.
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We were told straight out that the 5.8 would cease at the end of this year. This was confirmed on the Niche Line tour in August.
BUT, that said, I wonder if something hasnt changed now. The rest of that article exactly matches what I heard directly myself.
The design being changed after initial review for looking too eurostyle leaves a little out from what I was told, but that information is exactly correct. The other engine specs are also what I heard and dead on. It leaves a lot of details out, but I guess they cant take all the thunder from Ford.
Frankly I am surprised they were allowed to do this. My guess is they got someone to talk, or caught photos of it without cover, and Ford made a deal to let them get the info out early on the competition since it was gonna come out anyway.
BUT, that said, I wonder if something hasnt changed now. The rest of that article exactly matches what I heard directly myself.
The design being changed after initial review for looking too eurostyle leaves a little out from what I was told, but that information is exactly correct. The other engine specs are also what I heard and dead on. It leaves a lot of details out, but I guess they cant take all the thunder from Ford.
Frankly I am surprised they were allowed to do this. My guess is they got someone to talk, or caught photos of it without cover, and Ford made a deal to let them get the info out early on the competition since it was gonna come out anyway.
I agree. Not sure who's paying up for the IROC's
but they are getting the $$$ lol.
I was just trying to make the point that those cars were made in higher quantity,
Lower performance, and arguably less style and they all have become collectable and have increased in value..
Check out the reasons I outlined above.
Your assessment is spot on. 13/14's are special
cars in a league of their own. With such limited production on the convertibles
(Much lower production than cars I listed in my examples) they will increase in value for the same factors you stated contributed to the collectibility of the cars in my example.
10-15yrs from now who know how manny will be left unmolested. By then most will be modified, shipped overseas, dragged, or totaled.
Sounds like an exciting line up, it would be unusual for Ford to release their King of the road the first year of production of a new new redesigned model. why would they drop their famous trinity in the new car just for a short time long enough to discount the 13/14 models. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would toss the Trinity in so it can be replaced with a different power plant shortly after. If they do then those cars would Definately be a collector for sure. I hope they leave the current model as the last of the big engine cars.
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Me too, and I believe they will. Everything we have seen and heard to date points to the end of the 5.8L engine at the conclusion of 2014, if not all supercharged engines in the Mustang.
Great thread by the way, I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and your responses. It's hard to imagine SVT releasing their top dog before the base cars have some street time with the public first, it would be very unusual for them to completely redesign the entire car and then just drop their last design engine under the hood. I don't see it happening IMO. :beer:
Hi All,
This is interesting news about the 5.8, I heard a similar rumor that goes like this: The Dodge Challenger is getting the 6.2 Supercharged Hellcat for a 2 year run (15/16). The Supercharged ZL1 has two remaining years (15/16).ford is going to use the Supercharged 5.8 for 2 years (15/16) in the S550,
Then all new power options from the big three in 2017, with a new lighter Camaro and Barracuda and more eco-friendly power including ,10 speed autos and turbos.
This is interesting news about the 5.8, I heard a similar rumor that goes like this: The Dodge Challenger is getting the 6.2 Supercharged Hellcat for a 2 year run (15/16). The Supercharged ZL1 has two remaining years (15/16).ford is going to use the Supercharged 5.8 for 2 years (15/16) in the S550,
Then all new power options from the big three in 2017, with a new lighter Camaro and Barracuda and more eco-friendly power including ,10 speed autos and turbos.
And there it is. It all lies with the niche line. I'm quite sure the UAW knows what the plan is with respect to that powerplant at this point. C&D could have done some digging there instead of fostering speculation and contradiction with their article. Pretty weak journalism in my view.
Thank you very much for the kind words 5.0 guy! Most of the other posts on the board (that were not discussing a purchase or welcome to the club) seem to be about modding the 2013/2014 cars and I'd be the last person to ask about that, haha! However I thoroughly enjoy reading those posts about modding and learning something from different opinions. Therefore I thought I would post up a thread that I had some knowledge about (American cars of all years, their values, and investing in general as I love the stock market...it's my number one hobby). The future values of these cars is a different topic and kind of a controversial one. There have been numerous posts in numerous other threads from folks that the 2013/2014 cars are just another car that is will only be hot for a minute or two and that all cars are bad investments as they all go down and believe anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. So I thought I would put a thread together challenging the arguments you read on here which are typically that they are mass produced, all cars depreciate, and/or we will soon be driving rocketships that will leave these in the dust, etc. and why I believe those arguments are off. It took a lot of me to post this because I thought for sure I'd be flamed off of the boards and deemed a fool, LOL! So again, I appreciate the kind words from you and others who have posted simiar remarks. We all have opinions and that is what makes the board a fun place to relax and spend time responding to strangers. But regardless of what happens to the value of these cars, I will still thoroughly enjoy mine as the nice weather and my time permits!
Although I believe that to be true about the Challenger and Camaro we know the 2015 Ford Mustang will not have a Shelby/Cobra variation the first model year.
Well said Tob! I agree about C&D and the weak journalism. They aren't usually that off, same with MT, and it makes you wonder if they are grabbing at air or creating false rumors in hopes of trying to get readers back that they have lost to the online sites such as Jalopnik, the forums, etc?
I think what will determine future cost above anything is how bad people wanna relive old memories down the road. Production numbers and all that play a big role in that but look what drives the muscle cars up its people wanting to relive the days when they were young and saw one on a dealership or wrecked one. Thats what makes it so hard to put a price on the 13/14s now. I think the reason the trans ams are doing so well now is because that age group are starting to get to the point were they are comfortable financially and that is the biggest car in the 70's.
Exactly! Each generation desires to relive the days and things they remembered. My Grandfather loved the 1930's and 1940's cars, my Father is a big fan of the late 50's and 60's cars. I am very fond of the 80's and 90's Mustangs, Camaros, Vettes, Supras, etc. As you said, when that generation gets to retirement age and has some savings built up they look for the unmolested examples of the cars they want thus creating a bidding war. And you will note that muscle cars have pretty much reached a peak and in some cases (Mopars especially) that swan song has played out and values have been falling from their all time highs. A big part of that is because that generation is aging and another part is that those cars are no longer close to being the performance kings anymore. If I don't have one before then, when I retire in 15 years I will have a C6 Corvette ZR1. I could care less about a 67 Corvette 427.
However, what also fueled the muscle car craze was they had set performance benchmarks (especially raw power) for some time due to the 70's harsh regulations and technology's delay in catching back up. I believe we are at, or very close to the peak, of HP and with the CAFE standard quickly rising to 55 MPG Corporate Average by 2025 the writing is on the wall. It will take some time for automakers to make this kind of HP and get fuel economy up considerably.
The 2020s may be the same as the 1970s since they want electric cars. I think the muscle cars will stay popular because they were simple and now they are so complicated.
I like your comparison, although...
If a $34K Cobra is around $23K that represents about 68% of it's original MSRP ($34K) after 10 years. About right from what I've seen. 68% of $55-69K is about $37,400-46,920 in 10 years. That's my guess.
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The problem is your leaving out a few very important variables in your estimation. A 2013/2014 Shelby GT500 won't depreciate exactly like a 2003/2004 Cobra for a few important reasons;
1) Ford overproduced the 2003/2004 Cobra making 19,140 units over 2 years. They had a difficult time selling the last ones and had to do some heavy incentives to get them moved out. Whereas Ford this time has underproduced the 2013/2014 Shelby GT500, building much less than what could have been potentially sold by dealers. Dealers who do not charge an ADM and/or do not have a black Shelby GT500 in stock should have no problem at all finding a buyer for their car this time.
2) 19,140 units of the 2003/2004 Cobra minus an approx. 10,400 units of the 2013/2014 Shelby GT500 = approx. 8,700 more 2003/2004 Cobras. There are way fewer of the 2013/2014 Shelby GT500s this time which will affect depreciation.
3) Finally as I've said several times already, the 2003/2004 Cobra in less than 10 years time was outdone on every measure with more features/saftey/technology by a 2011-2014 Mustang GT with a 5.0 V8, nevermind the latest Shelby GT500! Even if Chris and others are right that the next gen Shelby/Cobra/whatever is a better all around car than the 2013/2014 Shelby GT500, I don't think anyone believes in 10 years time you will have just a regular Mustang GT outperforming the Shelby GT500 of today in every measure and with more HP than the Shelby GT500. While 390HP was pretty hot in 2003/2004, a regular Mustang GT of today now has 420HP (or 7.5% more advertised HP) while today's top dog Shelby GT500 now has 662HP (or almost 70% more advertised HP over the 03/04 Cobra)! That same increase in HP over today's Shelby GT500, would equate to 710 HP or so for the 2023 Mustang GT and about 1125 HP for the 2023 Shelby GT500. And that's not going to happen!
In case that is too wordy, in summary you can't compare the two cars depreciation wise. Ford overbuilt the 2003/2004 SVT Cobra and then that car was out classed less than 10 years later by even a regular Mustang GT. While Ford has arguably underbuilt the 2013/2014 Shelby GT500 (nonarguably building 8,700 less of these cars), and although it could very well be outdone later down the road it won't be by a regular production Mustang GT.
So you have to find a better example to compare the likely 10 year values of the 2013/2014 cars too. And that's my whole argument, I can't think of one. The only one I can come close too is the 2005/2006 Ford GT. They built 4K of that $150,000 car and will build 10K of this $60K one. That's possibly close to the same supply if you factor in that the less something desirable costs the more market there will be (Economics 101). The Ford GT actually went up because they were quickly dwindled down in numbers and unsurpassed by a newer, better model. I believe the 2013/2014 cars will be very quickly dwindled down to several reasons I've outlined multiple times, and believe that although performance wise it may be outdone it probably won't peak HP wise. Plus, the 2013/2014 was the first Mustang to top 200 MPH and it was Shelby's last car. Maybe it's a stretch to compare the two cars, maybe not. But I can't think of a closer American example anyway.
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