ProCharger Kit Questions

[TooManyFords]

This is how things should be. Friendly. :beer:

John what tire pressure were you running? I have to roll into the gas on launch otherwise my rears go up in smoke. All my passes were with 35 PSI. Did you drop tire pressure, and if so, did it help? Our oem tires suck at the track.

I tried 24 pounds as that gave me the best grab last season. And as you have so eloquently put it, they go up in smoke without trying to massage it. I too had that problem all night long.

So try as hard as the Trilogy guys will to show they can do better stock, I just don't believe it. Had I had enough time at the track, I probably could have done better. So, until we can have a true matchup as I've described, neither side has a leg to stand on.

Which is really the TRUE point of all this. You Trilogy boys need to stop making it seem like there is some "secret handshake" club going on... We can all go fast with the right mods. No one better than the other. I just wish you guys would see this too. :rollseyes

Cheers!

John

 

[maraudernkc]

FiveO, I did just purchase a 3200 PI stall for my car because it's a dog out of the hole since I dropped my compression down to 8.9 to 1. One point on compression makes a huge diffrence on our 4.6L mod motors. Our stock kits get out of the hole just fine but if you want to go to the track and get a decent time slip you need the following. By decent, I mean low 12's high 11's. I don't care if you have a Trilogy or a FIT/Procharger kit you will need the following to achieve great time slips.

Good Driver
Stall Converter
Slicks
Exhaust

Below is information from Precision Industries website on the PI/Stallion converter and the diffrence it makes in the 60 foot times and the 1/4 mile and when you slicks it just get's better.


Precision Industries 9.5"-inch Stallion

C-4, C-6, AOD, AODE, E4OD The Stallion torque converter is available for most Ford automatic transmission equipped vehicles. The Stallion is available for lock-up and non lock-up applications. The standard performance gain reported is 2 tenths on 60 foot times and up to 3/4 of a second on overall elapsed times in the 1/4 mile. The torque multiplication on the 9.5-inch series is 2.53 to 1 compared to stock at 1.93 to 1. The torque multiplication of the converter will deliver an increase of up to 50 horsepower to the rear wheels. The front cover of the converter is machined out of billet steel to ensure durability and to allow us to increase the clutch surface area. The front cover of the 9.5"-inch torque converters starts production as a 92 pound piece of billet steel and when the CNC machine makes the last cut it weighs about 12 to 14 pounds. Our unique billet cover along with other high performance internal parts allow us to produce torque converters that are custom built and designed for each individuals needs, wants and expectations. The 9.5-inch torque converters are tremendously efficient for daily drivers looking to enhance the performance of their cars with out sacrificing driveability. The "best of both worlds" as it is referred to, becomes a reality. The 9.5-inch series is capable of withstanding horsepower ranges from zero up to 1600 depending on the design and assembly. The average build time is 3 to 4 working days. The 9.5-inch non lock-up torque converter weight is between 24 to 26 pounds and the lock-up converter weight is between 32-36 pounds. The stall speed on our 9.5-inch torque converters are available from 2400-5800 rpm's depending on the application.

mrogerc,

The Procharger kit is, at least with tmac's, making something like 100 less rear wheel torque at 2500-3000rpm's than a Trilogy Kit. I made the comparison a couple of months ago and don't have the specifics in front of me now as I'm at a hotel in Indiana awaiting a drag racing day tomorrow!

I'll see if I can dig up tmac's dyno sheet and post it. I'll check mine tomorrow but I'm pulling like 400rwt at 2500-3000 rpm's and he's weelllll below that. The procharger picks up at the end...but by then its too late. They need a 3000+ stall TC to get them off the line in the same fashion as even a stock Marauder (stock TC) with the stock Trilogy kit on it. The Eaton may drop off way up top... but with these 4000+ pound cars...its all about low end.

tmac...you've got a 3000 stall...correct?

I also heard a rumor that Greg put one on his car. Just curious.

 

[tmac1337]

John, first off I want to say congratulations on your times. If you are using the stock Diablo tune you are still missing out on a lot of power to be had, more timing, without detonation, but that is something I think you will soon rectify.

When you do have the stall converter you will additionally notice a big difference again, along with some wider tires. I hope to see your next times with video being in the low 12's soon.

Five-O-, I'm really flattered that you have my old dyno graph floating around someplace, since I don't even have it anymore myself. Hugs and kisses my friend.

Guys this seems to be the same old song being sung again. The Pros and cons of centrifugal vs roots are well known and you have to admit, ALL OF US NOW HAVE KICK ASS CARS!

Congratulations again John.

*EDIT* And Five-O, which dyno graph of mine do you have? The one from SCT? If so, don't get your hopes up so much lover!

 

[tmac1337]

tmac...you've got a 3000 stall...correct?

Yes, and I had it a year before I installed the Procharger. Should I have thrown it in the trash?

Hugs and Smooochies.

 

[maraudernkc]

Tmac, I never knew you were such a hugs and kisses kinda guy! :cryying:

Yes, and I had it a year before I installed the Procharger. Should I have thrown it in the trash?

Hugs and Smooochies.

 

[tmac1337]

Tmac, I never knew you were such a hugs and kisses kinda guy! :cryying:

I know how to take one for the Procharger Team pal, and besides, Five-O's tough talk really gets me going epper:

 

[TooManyFords]

I'll see if I can dig up tmac's dyno sheet and post it. I'll check mine tomorrow but I'm pulling like 400rwt at 2500-3000 rpm's and he's weelllll below that. The procharger picks up at the end...but by then its too late. They need a 3000+ stall TC to get them off the line in the same fashion as even a stock Marauder (stock TC) with the stock Trilogy kit on it. The Eaton may drop off way up top... but with these 4000+ pound cars...its all about low end.

I knew there was a part of Mark's post that I wanted to bring up and Tmac you reminded me.

Let's take an informal poll here:

Q: How many seconds (or tenths or hundredths) does your engine stay in the 2500-3000 rpm range throughout the 1320 run?

1. 0.0 seconds : I have a 3000 stall converter!
2. .01 - .5 seconds: I am S/C but am all stock and never heard of power braking
3. 0.5- more : what is a S/C and why would I want to floor it?

So, my point is that while some would like everyone to think that below 3000 is the name of the game, nobody stays there for more than a fraction of a second during the entire run. It gets old and the argument just doesn't hold water. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Again, I am making this point because we need to stop throwing these kinds of misdirection around like it is gospel. Yeah, ya got more torque in the Supermarket parking lot while looking for a space, but so what?

We just need to get along and stop throwing out meaningless facts out of context.

Still friends everyone?

Good.

John

 

[MikesMerc]

So, until we can have a true matchup as I've described, neither side has a leg to stand on.

Although it is true that any match up on any given day can yield different results, its already well known what kind of performance numbers the Trilogy kit puts up with MM at various mod levels. I don't buy just off handidly ignoring the tons of data already accumulated on Trilogy equiped cars over the last 18 months. The fact of the matter is that there have already been a few Trilogy blown MM running high 12s which were otherwise bone stock.

Now, that doesn't take anything away from the Prochargers guys one bit. Running high 12s with a gear and exhaust work is great too. The only reason I posted on this topic at all is that "someone" talked about Procharger cars ass kicking Trilogy cars....it just ain't so.

In the end, though, it indeed sounds like the Procharger is a great kit worthy of some serious performance.

We can all go fast with the right mods. No one better than the other.

I couldn't agree more.

So a Procharger/Marauder will run in the high 12's with only gears.

Fair enough. I was just saying that there have been more than a few guys in the 12s with just the T kit.

I don't care if you have a Trilogy or a FIT/Procharger kit you will need the following to achieve great time slips.

Good Driver
Stall Converter
Slicks
Exhaust

I'm not sure about the Procharger equipped cars, but you can scratch the Stall Converter for the Trilogy guys. It is not needed to reach great times. 4 of the top 5 fastest Trilogy cars don't have them.

Not saying that running one is bad. Its just personal choice. BillyG has demonstrated just how well a bigger stall can work with the Trilogy kit too. But, the Trilogy kit certainly doesn't need a higher stall to put up big numbers at the track. Its already been proven.


Anyway, I agree with tmaac on this, these are all some very kick ass cars!! If the Procharger guys feel like a bigger stall convertor is a good choice, so be it. I think it is a great idea for a centrifugally blown car. I don't think its anything that should be thought of as "bad" in any way.

So please don't misconstrue my attempts at keeping that facts straight as bashing the Procharger approach. Each kit has its strengths and weaknesses and make power in different ways. Its the whole "set up" that counts!

 

[BillyGman]

So try as hard as the Trilogy guys will to show they can do better stock, I just don't believe it. Had I had enough time at the track, I probably could have done better. So, until we can have a true matchup as I've described, neither side has a leg to stand on.

Which is really the TRUE point of all this. You Trilogy boys need to stop making it seem like there is some "secret handshake" club going on... We can all go fast with the right mods. No one better than the other. I just wish you guys would see this too. :rollseyes

Cheers!

John

John, you were the one who stated that you can launch as quickly as a Trilogy equipped car, while at the same time "Kick their butt" on the top end, and yet your trap speed proves otherwise. So who is it that doesn't see the forest for the trees here? BTW, Tallboy ran a 13.1 ET with a Trilogy kit alone, and the stock tires and gears. And he also ran the same trap speed as you, as did others who are Trilogized. So I guess that you aren't kicking anyone's butt on the top end, uh? Again, congrats on obtaining one fast Marauder John. but it won't kick any Trilogozed marauder's "butt". If you ever do fins a Marauder to beat, it will be by one or two tenths at best if at all. Not what I would call "kicking butt". So atleast this time around, it was you who has made inflated claims of superiority.

 

[mrogerc]

It will be fun to see head-to-head competition between these S/C kits.


Since my car is my daily driver, I wanted to keep the stock 3.55 gears. Not just because it saves some fuel, but also because lower rpms=lower noise. About 20 min/day of my commute is at highway speeds, and I pass the time listening to music. So staying with the stock gears was a driveability issue for me. Nothing against anyone who has gone to 4.10, 4.30, 4.56 or whatever, it is just not for me (for now ;-) ).

Are there any driveability issues associated with a 3000RPM stall torque converter??? Does the car rev higher than normal in stop-and-go traffic, wasting fuel and making noise? That would drive me nuts. Perhaps a stupid question, but I look forward to learning the answer.

 

[MikesMerc]

John, you were the one who stated that you can launch as quickly as a Trilogy equipped car, while at the same time "Kick their butt" on the top end, and yet your trap speed proves otherwise. So who is it that doesn't see the forest for the trees here? BTW, Tallboy ran a 13.1 ET with a Trilogy kit alone, and the stock tires and gears. And he also ran the same trap speed as you, as did others who are Trilogized. So I guess that you aren't kicking anyone's butt on the top end, uh? Again, congrats on obtaining one fast Marauder John. but it won't kick any Trilogozed marauder's "butt". If you ever do fins a Marauder to beat, it will be by one or two tenths at best if at all. Not what I would call "kicking butt". So atleast this time around, it was you who has made inflated claims of superiority.

This is really the only reason I posted on this topic.

But, let's just chalk it up to John's excitement about getting great first time results out of his kit

 

[BillyGman]

This is really the only reason I posted on this topic.

But, let's just chalk it up to John's excitement about getting great first time results out of his kit

Yes Mike. That's what I was trying to say before, but then John came back and stated that Trilogy customers talk a lot of junk. So hopefully, he will get the point now. I for one never stated that John's car isn't quick. In fact, I congratulated him on his new found S/Ced power in a PM not too long ago.

 

[BillyGman]

Are there any driveability issues associated with a 3000RPM stall torque converter??? Does the car rev higher than normal in stop-and-go traffic, wasting fuel and making noise? That would drive me nuts. Perhaps a stupid question, but I look forward to learning the answer.

Not at all. In fact, I even drive mine in the snow w/out any problems. It's my daily driver.

 

[MikesMerc]

Yes Mike. That's what I was trying to say before, but then John came back and stated that Trilogy customers talk a lot of junk. So hopefully, he will get the point now. I for one never stated that John's car isn't quick. In fact, I congratulated him on his new found S/Ced power in a PM not too long ago.

I know you did Billy. In fact, it was you who originally mentioned John getting caught up in the excitement. Your reaction to his subsequent comments is understandable Billy, I felt the same way and that's why I posted at all.

And John, you still have my congrats on one helluva fast car! I think with traction, you're looking at mid 12s!!

 

[TooManyFords]

So atleast this time around, it was you who has made inflated claims of superiority.

No, you have to go to post #27 this time... Wasn't me.

Cheers!

John

 

[TooManyFords]

And John, you still have my congrats on one helluva fast car! I think with traction, you're looking at mid 12s!!

I'm still friends with all of you, never doubt that. And thanks!

john

PS: I'm not going to guess at what I will get with traction. We'll just wait and see!

 

[Tallboy]

MikesMerc, We had a Procharger car run a 13.1 down in Florida that was bone stock except for 4:10 Gears. It was a bad night with almost 100% humidity and dew on the track. I was told that guys were running 1/2 second off because of the conditions. I beleive Tallboy and Carfixer were there.

So a Procharger/Marauder will run in the high 12's with only gears.

I was there. The fastest E.T. turned was 13.3 NOT 13.1 as you posted.

The car in question also had a modified exhaust system.

 

[BillyGman]

No, you have to go to post #27 this time... Wasn't me.

Cheers!

John

Yeah, I know someone else started it, but you also came back with some false and inflated claims. Peace my friend.

 

[TooManyFords]

Nobody going to take the informal poll?

(grinning, ducking and running... )

 

[BillyGman]

PS: I'm not going to guess at what I will get with traction. We'll just wait and see!

Fair enough John. :burnout: