ProCharger Kit Questions

[MikesMerc]

My viewpoint is,....... how can you have too much low-end power? As for me, as heavy as Marauders are, give my heavy car all the low-end power possible, and I'll take care of the traction issue (if there really is one) in one way or another. It's better to have more than enough low-end power than can be used, than to have not enough.

Well said. With a heavy car, you always want as much low end as you can get.

There are a lot of good things about centrifugal blowers, but "not having too much power on the low end" isn't one of them.

 

[BillyGman]

Well said. With a heavy car, you always want as much low end as you can get.

There are a lot of good things about centrifugal blowers, but "not having too much power on the low end" isn't one of them.

EXACTLY. That is their weak point, and NOT their strong point. They also have strong points too though.

 

[tmac1337]

EXACTLY. That is their weak point, and NOT their strong point. They also have strong points too though.

Nice try Billy.

At first you were content to tear into, belittle, harass, insult, those that disagreed with you on supercharger choices, carrying the trilogy, reinhart, and procharger banners bravely into battle. Now that you have beaten down anyone that supports or enjoys a vortech or procharger, like the pack of wolves that you are, you have turned on your own trilogy brothers. Sad.

- Nice to see your acting more like yourself now though!

 

[DEFYANT]

Nice try Billy.

At first you were content to tear into, belittle, harass, insult, those that disagreed with you on supercharger choices, carrying the trilogy, reinhart, and procharger banners bravely into battle. Now that you have beaten down anyone that supports or enjoys a vortech or procharger, like the pack of wolves that you are, you have turned on your own trilogy brothers. Sad.

- Nice to see your acting more like yourself now though!

:dw:

 

[BillyGman]

Nice try Billy.

At first you were content to tear into, belittle, harass, insult, those that disagreed with you on supercharger choices, carrying the trilogy, reinhart, and procharger banners bravely into battle. Now that you have beaten down anyone that supports or enjoys a vortech or procharger, like the pack of wolves that you are, you have turned on your own trilogy brothers. Sad.

- Nice to see your acting more like yourself now though!

You must be joking, right? If not, are you drinking too much coffee or something? Where do you see me bashing anyone in my last post. U need help dude. Can it be that everyone isn't like you and always has no other intention but to slam others, and they might just be offering their sincere viewpoints now and then? What a novel concept, uh?

 

[mrogerc]

It sounds like you have a tuning issue since you've altered the kit (or the person you've bought it from did). Aren't you the one who bought the Trilogy kit from Bill Bowker who previously altered it, and had it on his Marauder?

I did get mine from Bill Bowker, and a great deal it was. I also have the SCT Pro Racer software, and use it to fine tune. For example, I found that the 1-2, programmed for 44mph, was happening at about 5800 rpm. So, I bumped it to 47, and wow, what a difference.

The pinging I got was generally at 1800-2000 RPM, and only happened in overdrive at relatively low speeds, when the engine was lugging, and with the torque converter locked. I asked Lidio for advice and he suggested not letting the torque converter lock until a much higher speed, in my case 63 mph (I think that is standard on the Trilogy kit). I wonder if the Procharger kit also takes out the torque converter until higher rpms?

Taking the torque converter lockup out of the picture means that the car rarely sees heavy load at the rpm range that is sensitive to pinging, and, as a big bonus, improves the driveability. As usual, Lidio knows. I do not know for sure, but would suspect that with the torque converter locked at lower speeds, the stock kit might just ping.

Lidio has to be one of the finest people in the aftermarket automotive industry. I was glad to finally buy the wheel widening from him since he has given me such great free advice. I also spoke with him about blowing up my tranny, and he confirmed my suspicion, that the likely issue was careless 4-2 shifting. I am delighted to have a kit he helped develop.

I suspect that the Procharger kit, which may not make nearly as much boost at 1800-2000 rpm (a guess, not a fact), would be less likely to ping at those rpms. However, I suspect it would also not make nearly the torque at those rpms either.

I agree with your perspective that the low end torque we get from a roots blower is a great advantage for the kind of performance that is most useful to a Marauder owner: off the line blast. On the other hand, if we were racing on an oval superspeedway at high rpms, a centrifigal blower might have an inherent advantage. On balance, if I was to buy again today, I would certainly choose the Trilogy kit. And I would get the OBD-II reader, the LM-1, and the SCT Pro Racer package. Makes for a lot of fun.

As a plus for the Procharger kit, I like the simplicity inherent in the air-to-air intercooler. No pump, no second water system, etc. However, I wonder how much cooling and boost might be lost in the relatively long run from the intercooler to the engine. I also wonder how the intercooler is located: does it benefit from the engine cooling fan, or is it dependent on cooling flow from the motion of the car?

On my car the post-intercooler air temp spikes a few degrees when I stop after a hard run, then quickly settles to the usual 30-32 degrees F above ambient. It would be interesting to ride in a Procharger with an OBD-II connection, and see what the readings are. It is a really nice looking installation.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[-FiveO-]

mrogerc,

The Procharger kit is, at least with tmac's, making something like 100 less rear wheel torque at 2500-3000rpm's than a Trilogy Kit. I made the comparison a couple of months ago and don't have the specifics in front of me now as I'm at a hotel in Indiana awaiting a drag racing day tomorrow!

I'll see if I can dig up tmac's dyno sheet and post it. I'll check mine tomorrow but I'm pulling like 400rwt at 2500-3000 rpm's and he's weelllll below that. The procharger picks up at the end...but by then its too late. They need a 3000+ stall TC to get them off the line in the same fashion as even a stock Marauder (stock TC) with the stock Trilogy kit on it. The Eaton may drop off way up top... but with these 4000+ pound cars...its all about low end.

tmac...you've got a 3000 stall...correct?

I also heard a rumor that Greg put one on his car. Just curious.

 

[TooManyFords]

mrogerc,

Just so we're all clear on this, and backing up what Mark said ^^^; for about $300 less than the cost of a Trilogy kit, my ProCharger will come out of the hole as fast as a Trilogy and kick it's ass on the top end. Ok, he didn't use those exact words, but it exactly the same thing. <smile>

I'll take mine ProCharged, thank you!

Cheers!

John

 

[TooManyFords]

The pinging I got was generally at 1800-2000 RPM, and only happened in overdrive at relatively low speeds, when the engine was lugging, and with the torque converter locked. I asked Lidio for advice and he suggested not letting the torque converter lock until a much higher speed, in my case 63 mph (I think that is standard on the Trilogy kit). I wonder if the Procharger kit also takes out the torque converter until higher rpms?

As you and all kit owners have found is that the transmission tuning is left to the owner to tweak. What one driver likes can be quite different than another. One may buy a kit for street driving and another for the track. Each will want the transmission tuned differently. FIT and Trilogy wisely left that to the owner.

However, to answer the ProCharger question, my converter doesn't lock until 45mph which is just where OD kicks in. And like everyone else, I want to get my shift points and lockup adjusted to where and how I drive. I like what the chip comes with as it is superior to the factory settings. Again this is subjective and my opinion.

I suspect that the Procharger kit, which may not make nearly as much boost at 1800-2000 rpm (a guess, not a fact), would be less likely to ping at those rpms. However, I suspect it would also not make nearly the torque at those rpms either.

I'm pretty sure you are correct. I have no pinging throughout the entire RPM range and the top-end it really kicks ass.

As a plus for the Procharger kit, I like the simplicity inherent in the air-to-air intercooler. No pump, no second water system, etc. However, I wonder how much cooling and boost might be lost in the relatively long run from the intercooler to the engine. I also wonder how the intercooler is located: does it benefit from the engine cooling fan, or is it dependent on cooling flow from the motion of the car?

I elected to place my 3-core intercooler underneath the front per the FIT website. The other optional position is in front of the radiator up behind the grill. Either works fine but I wanted to show off the intercooler and under-car scoop.

On my car the post-intercooler air temp spikes a few degrees when I stop after a hard run, then quickly settles to the usual 30-32 degrees F above ambient. It would be interesting to ride in a Procharger with an OBD-II connection, and see what the readings are. It is a really nice looking installation.

My car runs 16 degrees above ambient on average as posted from the ODB-II connection. So the intercooler appears to do a good job.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

Cheers!

John
(happy FIT / ProCharger customer)

 

[BillyGman]

mrogerc,

Just so we're all clear on this, and backing up what Mark said ^^^; for about $300 less than the cost of a Trilogy kit, my ProCharger will come out of the hole as fast as a Trilogy and kick it's ass on the top end.
John

John, I commend you on your decision to supercharge your car, and which kit you've chosen is fine as long as YOU are happy with it. But the statement quoted above is wishfull thinking at best, and grossly exaggerated. I see your timeslip on the Marauder board states that your car runs a 12.9 ET along with a 2.0 60' time.And I realize that was while using standard radial tires. But then how is it that you can state that your car will come out of the hole as quick as a Trilogy equipped Marauder will, and at the same time "kick it's butt" on the top end? If that were true, then you would be running in the 11's along with a 1.7 or 1.6 second 60' time like my car does.nd BTW, my TRILOGY equipped Marauder runs a 114 MPH trap speed, and that's with 4.56 gears, while your car ran a 108 MPH trap speed. So your car isn't kicking my car's butt on the top end, nor can you claim that it's launching like my TRILOGY equipped car does either. Let's come back down to earth Johnny.

 

[Tallboy]

mrogerc,

Just so we're all clear on this, and backing up what Mark said ^^^; for about $300 less than the cost of a Trilogy kit, my ProCharger will come out of the hole as fast as a Trilogy and kick it's ass on the top end. Ok, he didn't use those exact words, but it exactly the same thing. <smile>

I'll take mine ProCharged, thank you!

Cheers!

John

$300 less? You can get a converter and gears installed [both are needed if you even want to THINK about coming out of the hole like a Trilogy] for $700?

Don't talk about kicking Trilogy's ass until you beat a Trilogy car with the EXACT same mods as yours. Comments like that start wars, you know.

I know you're happy with your car, and I'm happy for you. :beer:

 

[BillyGman]

LOL....I think John just got a little carried away, and was caught up with the debate.

 

[Tallboy]

LOL....I think John just got a little carried away, and was caught up with the debate.

I think so, too. I tell you what, though. With a 2.0 second 60' time and an E.T. in the 12s, that thing must pull like a freight train!

 

[BillyGman]

I think so, too. I tell you what, though. With a 2.0 second 60' time and an E.T. in the 12s, that thing must pull like a freight train!

yes Chuck. I don't dispute that his car is fast. Any 4,200 LB STREET car getting into the 12 second bracket is always impressive. But until he gets some drag radials on there, he cannot make statements that indicate his car will hang with the best of the Marauders in the 60' department (be they Trilogized, or othwerwise) nor can he claim that his car will beat any Trilogy car in the top end with a trap speed of a mere 108 MPH, since there are several Trilogy equipped Marauders who are running 114 MPH trap speeds, and my car does that with the standard 9.5 PSI pulley. Like I said, John just got a little carried away. :burnout:

 

[MikesMerc]

I tell you what, though. With a 2.0 second 60' time and an E.T. in the 12s, that thing must pull like a freight train!

These times are pretty standard for a blown MM with a basic kit. I was running 2.0 sixty foots and high 12s with nothing but the Trilogy kit in 88 degree heat. No tires, no gears, no exhaust, na da. Headers, 4.10s, and Nittos got me to 12.1s.

Although the ProCharger kit is fine and all, high 12s is hardly azz kicking.

 

[TooManyFords]

$300 less? You can get a converter and gears installed [both are needed if you even want to THINK about coming out of the hole like a Trilogy] for $700?

Don't talk about kicking Trilogy's ass until you beat a Trilogy car with the EXACT same mods as yours. Comments like that start wars, you know.

I know you're happy with your car, and I'm happy for you. :beer:

You're absolutely right, but I am comparing a stock marauder with just a trilogy kit to a stock marauder with a FIT kit and a $700 converter. To me that would be $300 less and I'd put a side bet on the ProCharger car.

But, since we've all modded our cars beyond stock it is true it would be hard to compare them. I'm willing to go up against any Trilogy that has the same -other- mods as long as they have the stock converter (to make the comparison even as quoted).

So, I'm looking for a Trilogy car with 4.30's, Kooks exhaust, factory convertor, factory Trilogy chip (no custom dyno tune!) and factory BFG rear tires. I'll agree to keep my electric cut-outs closed cause finding anyone else with this is pretty hard so far.

Takers?

Remember, this is a friendly wager deal. The most at stake here is a cheeseburger and fries! Gotta keep it friendly!

Cheers!

John

 

[BillyGman]

John, that sounds like an interesting challenge, but until that happens, just keep in mind that out of the three Trilogized cars that that are all running the exact same trap speed as your car does (108 MPH), two of them had nothing other than the Trilogy kit and stock gears (Rick AKA "S/Cer #5", and Chuck AKA "Tallboy"), and one has nothing but drag radials and 4.10 gears (Nathan). So your car will NOT "Kick their Butt" on the top end unless maybe you go well past the quartermile mark, and who does that?

 

[Tallboy]

This is how things should be. Friendly. :beer:

John what tire pressure were you running? I have to roll into the gas on launch otherwise my rears go up in smoke. All my passes were with 35 PSI. Did you drop tire pressure, and if so, did it help? Our oem tires suck at the track.

 

[MikesMerc]

I thought John's times were on an otherwise stock car. With 4.30s and full exhaust work, a SC MM darn well better be in the 12s.

No offence John, any MM in the 12s is great and you've reached a significant performance milestone :beer:

But, I'm afraid I'm not the only one that had hit high 12s on the Trilogy kit alone with an otherwise bone stock MM. Seeing that it took 4.30s and full exhaust to get the Procharger car into the same territory, it would seem the contest was over before it even started. Maybe I'm missing something :shrug:

 

[maraudernkc]

MikesMerc, We had a Procharger car run a 13.1 down in Florida that was bone stock except for 4:10 Gears. It was a bad night with almost 100% humidity and dew on the track. I was told that guys were running 1/2 second off because of the conditions. I beleive Tallboy and Carfixer were there.

So a Procharger/Marauder will run in the high 12's with only gears.

I thought John's times were on an otherwise stock car. With 4.30s and full exhaust work, a SC MM darn well better be in the 12s.

No offence John, any MM in the 12s is great and you've reached a significant performance milestone :beer:

But, I'm afraid I'm not the only one that had hit high 12s on the Trilogy kit alone with an otherwise bone stock MM. Seeing that it took 4.30s and full exhaust to get the Procharger car into the same territory, it would seem the contest was over before it even started. Maybe I'm missing something :shrug: