Paxton drivability questions

[Clipboard]

this thread is a headache....4 pages of everyone argueing over the same conclusion. All of you agree the paxton kits are a little more difficult to tune....you all agree that the kits can be tuned properly to had just as good driveability as all the other kits....i dont see any disagreement that the MAF signal is poor because of the setup.....


Why is this thread still going back and fourth.....

 

[2012]

People love to hate

 

[rfugio68]

Hey I'm the one CPR is talking about, I had to bring my car to his shop due to drivability of my Paxton. I for one was not happy with the way my car DD. Nothing compared to the NA tune I had from Shaun to start with. Now don't think Iv always been a fan boy of turbos. If I'm not mistaken I was the first to try the "torque booster" with a boss 302 intake manifold and post up results. I found that what Shaun did to make my car drive "like stock" would be ok for the masses but maybe I'm just one of the rare people that can feel the difference in the tune/ hardware related issues. But seems like u know everything and have been in every other power added coyote to know the difference. I'm not here to bash anyone but wanted to give my personal experience with a setup like the op originally asked for. Please feel free to ask any other questions and ill be more then happy to give my opinion.

1K miles later I'm wishing I went single turbo or vmp. Currently unable to appreciate why people would go Paxton over a turbo, but I already had the boss manifold and headers so it was the next logical step for me.

Miss my NA AED tune so much, 700.2hp is wasted on the street and definitely my wallet.

This right here answer my question, both Paxton owners(or ex) and both live in my immediate area. Shaun's na tune is nothing short of amazing and his opinion on blowers matters to me since he will be tuning my kit at some point.

 

[beefcake]

This right here answer my question, both Paxton owners(or ex) and both live in my immediate area. Shaun's na tune is nothing short of amazing and his opinion on blowers matters to me since he will be tuning my kit at some point.

But, in all fairness maybe he isn't the one to tune a blower car?

Shaun does a great job with his na tunes, no doubt, and his customer service is as good as that. I will not debate that.

But, Shaun has even posted in this forum several times, that if you want an na tune for an automatic car, that mike rousch is a better tuner and to see him because he has spent more time on the automatics.

Doesn't it logically stand to reason, that if there are better automatic tuners, per shauns own words because they spend more time on them, that there can be better super chargercharger tuners, because they spend more time on them?

As posted earlier, our customer from today only needed 3 revisions to get his car spot on. I'm just asking if that is a logical conclusion?

Shaun, not saying he can't tune them, it's obvious he can, but maybe we are better qualified due to the amount of these we do. By his own admission in this thread, my recommendation to a customer of how to clock the maf was an aid in him getting the car tuned properly.

It's little things like that we notice due to our experience. Not saying because we are the end all. Just saying when it comes to Paxton and vortech kits, we simply have the experience.

And not just from the volume, but from having 2 shop cars, one for 4 years now.

 

[Mike Rousch]

But, in all fairness maybe he isn't the one to tune a blower car?

Shaun does a great job with his na tunes, no doubt, and his customer service is as good as that. I will not debate that.

But, Shaun has even posted in this forum several times, that if you want an na tune for an automatic car, that mike rousch is a better tuner and to see him because he has spent more time on the automatics.

Doesn't it logically stand to reason, that if there are better automatic tuners, per shauns own words because they spend more time on them, that there can be better super chargercharger tuners, because they spend more time on them?

As posted earlier, our customer from today only needed 3 revisions to get his car spot on. I'm just asking if that is a logical conclusion?

Shaun, not saying he can't tune them, it's obvious he can, but maybe we are better qualified due to the amount of these we do. By his own admission in this thread, my recommendation to a customer of how to clock the maf was an aid in him getting the car tuned properly.

It's little things like that we notice due to our experience. Not saying because we are the end all. Just saying when it comes to Paxton and vortech kits, we simply have the experience.

And not just from the volume, but from having 2 shop cars, one for 4 years now.

Shaun has NEVER said once that i was "better" at A6 calibrations. He has respect for what i do, I share that same respect for what he does. You call the man a idiot in one post then the very next post turn around and say he knows what he is doing. Wonder why hardly anyone likes you (your words), that is one of the main reasons. It is your arrogant attitude toward other vendors and anyone else who may disagree with you.

In the future please do not reference my name in anymore of your rants.

 

[Eric@jpc]

Wow im glad we got slammed in this thread.....

all i did was post 2 graphs and say the paxton cars were a bit harder to tune and state we modify some things in house to make it better.

I can feel the love, i guess we are donkeys and dont know how to tune

 

[CSG]

What we have here are some members that are too dumb to realize that they are ignorant about what they speak about. Unfortunately they are also too dumb to realize that I am talking about them...
As such the thread continues...

 

[beefcake]

Shaun has NEVER said once that i was "better" at A6 calibrations. He has respect for what i do, I share that same respect for what he does. You call the man a idiot in one post then the very next post turn around and say he knows what he is doing. Wonder why hardly anyone likes you (your words), that is one of the main reasons. It is your arrogant attitude toward other vendors and anyone else who may disagree with you.

In the future please do not reference my name in anymore of your rants.

Let me rephrase, I said he was an idiot if he thinks he was getting one of Lund's files from me. Not due to his ability to tune. None of this got out of hand til he said I was taking advantage of customer. If someone said you were shaking down your customers, you'd get pissed too.

As far as arrogance, it's got nothing to do with arrogance. Let's take all the customers that dislike me or like me, take all the ones that dislike or like shaun, or anyone else for that matter out of the equation.

Lets simply look at it from an experience standpoint. Again, not saying he can't tune. That would just be a silly statement. But as posted below.

Mike has a A6 as his test bed.
I had an M6.

His strength is the A6, mine is the M6.

So, you have an A6 as your test bed car, which gives strength to your tuning on that auto cars, that then spills out to your customers cars. Then back to yours, then back to your customers, and so on. Simply from the experience and time on the car. Is that not a logical assumption?

Would it not make sense, that with 4 years of testing and hundreds of dyno pulls and hundreds of 1/4 miles passes and 10's of thousands of street miles, that we/Lund would have more experience with the Paxton kits. 3 different Heads, 3 different cams, 3 different intakes, 4 different fuels, 4 different head units. Testing, logging, testing, logging, testing logging. Just on the 11 car.

It's not a rant, I'm just posting what makes sense. Some things make sense, some things don't. . Combine that testing with Coffeemans' procharger car with the same thing. You have probably 300 dyno pulls and 400 track logs between the 2 of us on centri cars. Not to mention all the customers cars tuned. Then you take Evo's shop cars, along with Chris Cruz's PD car. Again, you have hundreds of passes and 10's of thousands of street miles again on PD blower combo's. Not to mention all the customers cars tuned with PD blowers.

Then you have the 2 in house twin turbo cars, plus Bud Sell's car. Tons of data, and a lot of that data can be shared back and forth between the centri cars and then back to the turbo cars as well.

Again, I don't think there is anything Shaun can't tune. I'm simply saying, does it not make sense, that maybe, just maybe, we have a better handle on this particular combo. I don't think that's a statement that is out of line to make.

 

[SILV03MustangGT]

This right here answer my question, both Paxton owners(or ex) and both live in my immediate area. Shaun's na tune is nothing short of amazing and his opinion on blowers matters to me since he will be tuning my kit at some point.

Hence when parts go on my car I talk to Shaun. He is the one that told me to go TVS and here we are today, car is still running strong, and I have vids of the almighty centri being taken down by the TVS. The car even pulled away in the higher rpm where the TVS was supposed to fall off and the centri was supposed to shine.

 

[Shaun@AED]

Haters gonna hate, salesmen gonna sell.

3 revisions, 15 revisions. Does not matter to me. I'm an anal son of a bitch when it comes to tuning. I want it right and if that means requesting another round of data logs and revisions, so be it.

Terry, most of the Paxton tunes I've done were prior Lund tuned. What does that tell you about my Paxton tunes?

*Note for those keeping track*
Terry is now attacking my tuning ability. Something he has zero first hand knowledge / experience with. This is his MO, attack, discredit, attack. Do a search, you find the same pattern in other threads with JPC, BBR, etc. Anyone he perceives as a threat to his pocketbook he does this to.

All of this over a picture of a Maf signal I posted.

 

[beefcake]

Haters gonna hate, salesmen gonna sell.

3 revisions, 15 revisions. Does not matter to me. I'm an anal son of a bitch when it comes to tuning. I want it right and if that means requesting another round of data logs and revisions, so be it.

Terry, most of the Paxton tunes I've done were prior Lund tuned. What does that tell you about my Paxton tunes?

I'm not going to argue that, as I have sold plenty of lund tunes to previously tuned AED cars. We could banter that kind of stuff all day long. At the end of the day it's really going to be heresay on both our parts. We are in the process of tuning one right now.

You state that Mikes strength is the A6, because he has one. You state the manual is your strength because you have one.

Yet, with all our/Lund experience with the Blower cars, you lend no "strength" there. Who is selling now.

And the fact that we can tune it in 3 revisions, means it's not a son of a bitch to tune. Not for us anyway.

In summation, if you want Shaun to be your tuner, especially if he's local, and his recommendation is a different blower, then I would go that way. I get people that call all the time asking about compression for their engine build, questions on tuning for their tuner, etc...

I always say, get the info from the people that will be touching your car every day. A tuner / Engine builder does not want to be bothered with what some other tuner / builder recommends. What my engine builder likes, may not be what your engine builder likes.

Those are the people touching your car every day. What's important is what they feel comfortable tuning / building, etc...

Edit: I'll add this as well. I have never, ever steered anyone away from having you tune their car. When I sell a kit and someone says they would like you to tune the car, I have always, always said. We don't force our tune on anyone, and I deduct the tuning cost from the package. I tell them that you have great customer service and you will take good care of them. That's a fact and you know that.

The whole point of this thread and "scaring" people away from the kit, I think is just silly though.

 

[DSargent09]

My customer posted factual data on his maf signal already in here that owned a Paxton kit. On 11psi the bov's fluttered back washing air threw the maf. That was with two Paxton bov's. Caused the engine to die between shifts and coming to stops. It was "fixed." But people confuse a "good tune" with a software bandaid to cover up hardware issues. But that's the difference between thinking it's done right, and "good enough." I'm not sure how Shaun or others do it. But kits that don't have drivability issues, don't need to forced open loop down low, raise idle rpm or whatever else tuners do.



Nope. Worked on one. Trying to fix the maf washing and clocking the tube trying to fix the signal.


Nope. Do I need one? I do get paid to work on them. Does that count?

How many boosted coyotes have you tuned?
How many boosted maf based cars have you designed from scratch?

I just find it funny you know so much about how all these kits drive.
You had a customer with a shitty tune that you fixed. Congrats.

So again I guess when someone buys your turbo kit and has to tune a delay for the o2s that's a bandaid for a poor design.

Guess JPC built their's right?

 

[CPRsm]

I just find it funny you know so much about how all these kits drive.
You had a customer with a shitty tune that you fixed. Congrats.

Why is it funny I know? I can glance at a system and generally tell you whether it's going to have problems or not. Short of some sort of turbulence you can only know about looking on the inside. It's not a gift or make me special. Most any builder or tuner can do the same. Comes w the territory when you do it all the time.
Don't need your congrats. You asked my experience and I told you. Not sure why you're so upset. If you're happy why give a shit what I think?
But you didn't answer my questions.

So again I guess when someone buys your turbo kit and has to tune a delay for the o2s that's a bandaid for a poor design.

Properly designed an O2 sensor should go after turbo to avoid pressure and skewing O2 reading. The delay how you properly tune it. Others have had to force open loop because they were not supplied the tune from their manufacturer like we did. Even long tubes should have the delay changed. Which I guess is why SCT finally made it available publicly. Your ignorance is showing again. Keep grabbing at straws though, you're doing great!

 

[Shaun@AED]

Terry, I am not trying to scare anyone away from a Paxton.

I posted hard data on the Maf signal quality and my opinion on the matter, which is that I would choose a different power adder for my own coyote.

 

[Justin81]

Thanks to all of you guys for putting your knowledge out for all of us to read. AED, JPC, Beefcake, CPR Etc... It's all good info to process.

 

[Eric@jpc]

So again I guess when someone buys your turbo kit and has to tune a delay for the o2s that's a bandaid for a poor design.

Guess JPC built their's right?

im not sure what this mean? yes we built our kit

 

[DSargent09]

Can you please show me how a paxton car tuned by a good tuner drives poorly.

Post a video if you could.

 

[DSargent09]

im not sure what this mean? yes we built our kit

Haha

I guess JPC built their kit correctly to where it requires no delay?

 

[TexasStang4585]

DSargent09 is a joke.......
op:

 

[DSargent09]

DSargent09 is a joke.......
op:

How does that make me a joke? I said they tuned my 2013 m6 and it ran fine but cruise didn't work and I thought it was something I had done.

Next car 2014 bought December 5th, and paxton added late February they couldn't tune.