Brand new 2012 coming in for few mods and a big ass turbo

[BTrinanes]

Alright so the plans are about laid out, so we can spill the beans now that most is figured out. The plan right now is to make it one of the baddest cars on the streets, in all areas.

One of the key components to the car will be the fuel system. Not many people including the customer has easy availability to E85. Not many people want to run a leaded gas because of cost, especially with these closed loop cars and potential damage to the O2's. Plus draining and switching is a pain in the ass. Play time can be limited if you are stuck on pump gas as well. So the plan is to run a secondary fuel system all together to supply E85 via another 8 injectors. This way the customer can have his cake and eat it,too. Drive around town on the stock ECU, injectors, fuel system and quite fuel pump. When it's time to get nasty, the secondary ECU will kick on the secondary fuel pump automatically. The E85 will only be used under boost, so that means better gas mileage, and no need to know where the closest stations are to plan your trips. He'll drive to a station, grab a 55 gallon or drum or two and store it at home and fill up as needed.

Even better yet all this really won't be bad compared to having to buy everything you would to convert to E85 anyways. You just need a 700 dollar Mega Squirt setup, and second tank for the E85. Injectors, pump, bigger fuel lines you would need anyways. We are going to do the same here but run it in parallel.

There are going to be safety measure built into the system thru the mega squirt and a few other things. Without the boost controller turned on, the boost will be very low on spring pressure. The boost controller power will come via a sending unit in the tank. If it has enough E85 in the tank, the boost controller will be operational. If it does not have enough E85 in the tank, there will be no chance or risking the engine to mere pump gas as the boost will only hit 6 psi.

Small overview of the parts going on.


Engine
MMR 1500
Stage 3 head and cams
Sheetmetal intake with 16 injectors

Transmission
Lentech built, no transbrake

Rear end
Probably stock gear for now. See how it does.
CPR modified 8.8
Braced, welded tubes, 9in ends with Strange
31 spline, Eaton E locker for perfect streetability.
Open rear for cruising and turning, flip a switch for the
locker when it's play time.

Suspenion
Front will be a CPR modified BMR k-member for the turbo kit.
BMR's arms will be hanging up front as well.

Rear will be autofab lower control arms and relocation brackets
with a racecraft upper arm and mount. Looking for all the adjust ability
we can get to keep this thing under control. She's gonna need it.

Fuel system
Primary will remain stock.

Secondary system
Mega squirt as a piggy back for the secondary fuel system.
Bosch 205 injectors
Custom CPR tank in the rear for the E85
Fuel pump will come on with boost, along with the A/W pump.

Powa
We've decided to hell with it and go straight for the gusto.
Custom BW GT42 based 88m turbo
JGS 50mm wastegate and BOV
A/W unit with box in the trunk.
No heat exchanger. This method is FAR superior than running one.
Without the cooler in the engine, and the pump being off driving around there
is no way to overheat the water in the tank. Testing and customer data along with mine proves it is hands down better.

Now that is the ultimate street car! Every project I ever been involved in street ability was always a must! My current modular stang has 1500+ hp and in my eyes was a street car.. until Dustin opened my eyes with this project. This fixes all the problems I have encountered through the years in search of big power and great driveability.. I'm a huge fan of piggy backed systems as I run something similar on my 600 hp a/w cooled turbocharged Hayabusa.. It behaves like a stocker and is a dream to ride! This is gonna be a fun build and I cant wait to see it finished.. :banana:

 

[04sleeper]

One of the key components to the car will be the fuel system. Not many people including the customer has easy availability to E85. Not many people want to run a leaded gas because of cost, especially with these closed loop cars and potential damage to the O2's. Plus draining and switching is a pain in the ass. Play time can be limited if you are stuck on pump gas as well. So the plan is to run a secondary fuel system all together to supply E85 via another 8 injectors. This way the customer can have his cake and eat it,too. Drive around town on the stock ECU, injectors, fuel system and quite fuel pump. When it's time to get nasty, the secondary ECU will kick on the secondary fuel pump automatically. The E85 will only be used under boost, so that means better gas mileage, and no need to know where the closest stations are to plan your trips. He'll drive to a station, grab a 55 gallon or drum or two and store it at home and fill up as needed.

Even better yet all this really won't be bad compared to having to buy everything you would to convert to E85 anyways. You just need a 700 dollar Mega Squirt setup, and second tank for the E85. Injectors, pump, bigger fuel lines you would need anyways. We are going to do the same here but run it in parallel.

There are going to be safety measure built into the system thru the mega squirt and a few other things. Without the boost controller turned on, the boost will be very low on spring pressure. The boost controller power will come via a sending unit in the tank. If it has enough E85 in the tank, the boost controller will be operational. If it does not have enough E85 in the tank, there will be no chance or risking the engine to mere pump gas as the boost will only hit 6 psi.

Thats exactly what Jake @ Power By The Hour did on his own 97 Cobra a few years ago. Megasquirt and all. Except he used a pair of 60# injectors for the E85.

BTW, That is some of the nicest welding I have seen! :rockon:

 

[BTrinanes]

^^ I'm surprised this is not a popular option, it really allows us to take advantage of all the benefits of E85 without the hassle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[90goldtsiawd]

I see a lot more guys on LS1Tech running a secondary system with great results. I'm surprised it's not as popular here?

 

[CPRsm]

Thats exactly what Jake @ Power By The Hour did on his own 97 Cobra a few years ago. Megasquirt and all. Except he used a pair of 60# injectors for the E85.

BTW, That is some of the nicest welding I have seen! :rockon:

Yep, I remember John from RPS posting the car up on the turbo forums. Iirc, the car was green ? I think it will be interesting doing it on a stock ECU where the car is always closed loop. Should be interesting, but think if I'm right, the stock ECU's reaction will actually make it easier on me. The second set of injectors are going to be used for intercooling as well because of their position. We will put those up about the stock injectors to give the E85 more time to draw any heat out. I really doubt there will be any left after the A/W gets a hold of it though.

 

[04sleeper]

Yep, I remember John from RPS posting the car up on the turbo forums. Iirc, the car was green ?

Yep. Here it is running on stock rims and 275 Nitto 555R's.
[youtube_browser]cRJh4GJwtwg[/youtube_browser]

I think it will be interesting doing it on a stock ECU where the car is always closed loop. Should be interesting, but think if I'm right, the stock ECU's reaction will actually make it easier on me. The second set of injectors are going to be used for intercooling as well because of their position. We will put those up about the stock injectors to give the E85 more time to draw any heat out. I really doubt there will be any left after the A/W gets a hold of it though.

Sounds like a good set up.

Here's Jakes intake that he built. It has the stock injectors and 2 set's of 60's.

 

[CPRsm]

Oh damn, 3/cyl LOL. Goal for this car is to foot brake into the 8's. One of the goals

 

[04sleeper]

Oh damn, 3/cyl LOL. Goal for this car is to foot brake into the 8's. One of the goals

Awesome! I look forward to it as a Turbo GT will be my next car for sure!

 

[CPRsm]

Knocked this out real quick like.

 

[CPRsm]

Here is the wastegate. Made in the US. One piece wastegate valve, not a two piece like some. Ferrea makes the valve in this bad boy so you know it's good shit. You can see it's completely V-banded. No need to changes spring really, but IF you decide, it's easy. The inlet and outlet are interlocking for easy alignment on install, and a leak proof seal, first time. The v-bands for the Headers are the same way.

 

[CPRsm]

No white knuckled driving here. 14 up front and 13's in the rear. Start the install of the front and then find out what needs to be done to get the rears to fit with the 8.8 brakes

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

(1) He'll drive to a station, grab a 55 gallon or drum or two and store it at home and fill up as needed.

(2) Even better yet all this really won't be bad compared to having to buy everything you would to convert to E85 anyways. You just need a 700 dollar Mega Squirt setup, and second tank for the E85. Injectors, pump, bigger fuel lines you would need anyways. We are going to do the same here but run it in parallel.

There are going to be safety measure built into the system thru the mega squirt and a few other things. Without the boost controller turned on, the boost will be very low on spring pressure. The boost controller power will come via a sending unit in the tank. If it has enough E85 in the tank, the boost controller will be operational. If it does not have enough E85 in the tank, there will be no chance or risking the engine to mere pump gas as the boost will only hit 6 psi.

(3) Rear end
Probably stock gear for now. See how it does.
CPR modified 8.8
Braced, welded tubes, 9in ends with Strange
31 spline, Eaton E locker for perfect streetability.
Open rear for cruising and turning, flip a switch for the
locker when it's play time.

(4) A/W unit with box in the trunk.
No heat exchanger. This method is FAR superior than running one.
Without the cooler in the engine, and the pump being off driving around there
is no way to overheat the water in the tank. Testing and customer data along with mine proves it is hands down better.

a couple Qs...

(1) i've heard that ethanol attracted water, is there any worry about this when storing a large amount of E85?

(2) can you go into big, huge, massive amounts of detail when you put this secondary system together? i'm really interested in how a set up like this 'works', primarily the electronics/programming side of it.

(3) any specific reason this car isn't getting a 9"? not criticizing, just curious.

(4) will the A/W pump be boost triggered as well(along with a manual switch of course)? and how big of an intercooler will you be able to cram in the engine bay?


looking forward to the build and the finished product, this should be a SICK car! future KOTS champ? 1000HP dyno run, pfft:rockon:

 

[BTrinanes]

a couple Qs...

(1) i've heard that ethanol attracted water, is there any worry about this when storing a large amount of E85?

(2) can you go into big, huge, massive amounts of detail when you put this secondary system together? i'm really interested in how a set up like this 'works', primarily the electronics/programming side of it.

(3) any specific reason this car isn't getting a 9"? not criticizing, just curious.

(4) will the A/W pump be boost triggered as well(along with a manual switch of course)? and how big of an intercooler will you be able to cram in the engine bay?


looking forward to the build and the finished product, this should be a SICK car! future KOTS champ? 1000HP dyno run, pfft:rockon:

E85 will store fine if kept in an air tight container, and a 8.8 will handle the power this car is gonna make all day with no problems.. My TT mustang runs low 8's high 7's and has never destroyed an 8.8 that is built and that's w a transbrake to boot.. 8.8 are a lot stronger than you think..

 

[CPRsm]

1. Yes, ethanol is very hygroscopic, like brake fluid. As long as you seal it up and keep it away it's fine.

2. Probably not I can go into a little of it and the setup up but this could get a little tricky because of the closed loop in this ECU. Stuff like this and the little stuff that separates my kits from others I don't share. As much as I do share, there are still some things I keep to myself unfortunately.

3. There isn't going to be much of a shock load on the car. It not having a T brake will go a long way. The car is also getting a CF driveshaft, so that will absorb even a bit more again with it's ability to absorb torsion. The 8.8 to try to keep the power we make and not have it sucked up by a 9in.

4. YEP. Manual switch to pre chill at the track, and boost operated for normal use. The intercooler will go up front like the 500's. This way there is no external heat source to get the water hot for no reason. But don't forget the A/W cores don't have to be NEARLY as large as A/A. The cold side tubing will be the same as the A/A for a future upgrade for customers. You can just take out the A/A and go A/W without fabing or changing anything. Just unbolt and run your new lines. Lots of people out grow parts, might as well make it as easy as possible for the change. I've got some logs here to show. Gimme a minute

 

[twistedneck]

I have heard you need to flush out your tank a few times when you convert to E85, something about sludge clogging the fuel pump screens and all of the filters with some type of precipitate or dirt that congeals when you go from gas to e85.

some said they could see red bits from a shop rag in the goo..

 

[BTrinanes]

I have heard you need to flush out your tank a few times when you convert to E85, something about sludge clogging the fuel pump screens and all of the filters with some type of precipitate or dirt that congeals when you go from gas to e85.

some said they could see red bits from a shop rag in the goo..

Oddly enough I heard the same thing. But yet my suburban can run on corn or gas and it's fine.. luckily this setup will only see E85 in the trunk cell ..

 

[evolve]

Educated guess would be 25 psi around 4k. I think I can do it faster as long as I don't hit the surge line. I got tricks and I'll put up the numbers with it spooling faster than I think you can use. Some folks want that, so I'll be able to change things to make it spool where the customer wants.

Will it be similar to the HTA style turbos from Garrett?

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

E85 will store fine if kept in an air tight container, and a 8.8 will handle the power this car is gonna make all day with no problems.. My TT mustang runs low 8's high 7's and has never destroyed an 8.8 that is built and that's w a transbrake to boot.. 8.8 are a lot stronger than you think..

don't get me wrong, i know they are damn strong axles. there's something to be said for all the jeep guys hunting down all the 31 spline, limited slip, 3.73 explorer 8.8s in junkyards to throw into their wranglers and cherokees, and beating the shit out of completely stock axlers with 35" tires. but it generally seems like everyone switches to a 9" when running that fast for the huge aftermarket and ease of set up.

1. Yes, ethanol is very hygroscopic, like brake fluid. As long as you seal it up and keep it away it's fine.

2. Probably not I can go into a little of it and the setup up but this could get a little tricky because of the closed loop in this ECU. Stuff like this and the little stuff that separates my kits from others I don't share. As much as I do share, there are still some things I keep to myself unfortunately.

3. There isn't going to be much of a shock load on the car. It not having a T brake will go a long way. The car is also getting a CF driveshaft, so that will absorb even a bit more again with it's ability to absorb torsion. The 8.8 to try to keep the power we make and not have it sucked up by a 9in.

4. YEP. Manual switch to pre chill at the track, and boost operated for normal use. The intercooler will go up front like the 500's. This way there is no external heat source to get the water hot for no reason. But don't forget the A/W cores don't have to be NEARLY as large as A/A. The cold side tubing will be the same as the A/A for a future upgrade for customers. You can just take out the A/A and go A/W without fabing or changing anything. Just unbolt and run your new lines. Lots of people out grow parts, might as well make it as easy as possible for the change. I've got some logs here to show. Gimme a minute

good to know, i always wondered about that when you hear people talking about getting a couple drums of the stuff.

completely understand, though unfortunate to hear:lol1:

ooo, that makes sense. i've heard that the 9" sucks a bit of power because of the high offset of the pinion on the ring. efficiency FTW!

interested in seeing what your 'cooler set up looks like, it just seems like all the A/W 'coolers for turbo cars i've seen(on the internet... :lol1 seem large and awkward. though my it's just flawed perception since i haven't seen one in person.

 

[CPRsm]

Important to remember about inlet temps when comparing then is the RISE. It does no good to compare numbers when it's 60 out one day, and 90 for another, and try to compare the actual temp. The actual temp is almost irrelevant. Folks are seeing 40 to 100+ degree climbs in inlets on boosted apps for these cars. The worst one offender is at only 8psi!! That is not safe, or indicative of making power. 40 degree increase in inlets is unacceptable. Especially if it is only 8 psi.



This is a 383SBC 12 psi. It moves more CFM than a Coyote will at probably 18psi. (Too lazy to actually do the math) The more cfm, even at the same boost is harder to cool. More air molecules to slow down. But the inlets gain is only a whopping 5 deg on this 9sec 4500 lb truck. No easy task taking 100 deg out with no ice, in Fl weather lol. No heat exchanger, no problem. Boost activated. The blue/green line is the inlet temp. Yellow is the discharge temp from the turbo.

At the track he sees 15 degree rise iirc ? Boost at 18 psi, discharge temps over 300 deg and inlets are 100 with ice.

interested in seeing what your 'cooler set up looks like, it just seems like all the A/W 'coolers for turbo cars i've seen(on the internet... :lol1 seem large and awkward. though my it's just flawed perception since i haven't seen one in person.

Yeah, if you look at a race car, they are big and in the car to even out weight. Even at 1000 hp, my 500 inlets climbed 20 deg maybe ? That was 20 psi and the engine LOADED the F down to make an 7-8sec dyno pull. I was HARD on that system. The core is what you'll hear referred to a a brick or single core. A lot of the race car stuff will be a four core or four brick systems.

 

[CPRsm]

Will it be similar to the HTA style turbos from Garrett?

To be honest IDK what they are. I looked in their direction briefly but didn't think the turbines were up to the task.