What aluminator to go with?? Blown motor

[CPRsm]

I would hold off until Daniel diagnoses it. No reason to spend money blindly. It could just be the pump and one leaned out and broke first, or injector clogged. No reason to buy a fuel system if an injector cleaning fixes the issue. Then you spend more than needed overall and this becomes and even more bitter experience overall. Then stress goes up, you ask Daniel to work cheaper because it's cost you "X" amount of money, he gets stressed, then you bring it home. Stress the old lady, the poon stops flowing and you sell the car unfinished lol. So have a drink, send it to Daniel, let him work his magic and recommend where to spend your money properly. Over spend and momma ain't happy. If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Email the pic here and I'll post it for you.
[email protected]

 

[Rubberman]

 

[92fiveohfox]

I would hold off until Daniel diagnoses it. No reason to spend money blindly. It could just be the pump and one leaned out and broke first, or injector clogged. No reason to buy a fuel system if an injector cleaning fixes the issue. Then you spend more than needed overall and this becomes and even more bitter experience overall. Then stress goes up, you ask Daniel to work cheaper because it's cost you "X" amount of money, he gets stressed, then you bring it home. Stress the old lady, the poon stops flowing and you sell the car unfinished lol. So have a drink, send it to Daniel, let him work his magic and recommend where to spend your money properly. Over spend and momma ain't happy. If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Email the pic here and I'll post it for you.
[email protected]

Lol nice post

 

[CPRsm]

You like that? Lol:lol:


Plug looks like it was struck for sure. You can see the witness mark on turnoff side of the ground strap closest to you. Hard to tell how much heat was in the cylinder, but doesn't look like detonation. And looking in the back ground, doesn't look like the dreaded #8 cyl. That's all I can see/tell. Time to tear her down.

 

[denali33]

Just wondering is it pretty easy to find out why a motor let go via a tear down? I mean damage is being done when it lets go..so how can you find the starting point of failure?

 

[denali33]

what about knock sensitivity , is anything messed with in the tune as far as the knock sensors go? Because if i've understood it correctly the knock sensors are supposed to pick up detonation and shut the detonating cylinder down so there is no melting of the piston or engine damage.

I am pretty sure they will pull timing out until the knock subsides..I didn't think they shut the actual cylinder down.

 

[Rubberman]

actually its the cyl. all the way to the front on the driver side .

 

[CPRsm]

Yeah it's #5. Just keep the plugs so he can examine them closer. He may want to look at the plug w a magnifying glass for detonation. Not bad enough to see on the plug but who knows
Denali it's not always easy. But it's "just" a matter of following the bread crumbs leading back to the root

 

[Shaun@AED]

Just wondering is it pretty easy to find out why a motor let go via a tear down? I mean damage is being done when it lets go..so how can you find the starting point of failure?

Yes it is if done by an experienced tech. As Dustin stated there will be signs of issues elsewhere in the engine, like the rod bearings, cylinder walls, piston rings, skirts, etc.

Knock sensors can be setup many different ways, including pulling from all 8 cylinders in the event of knock detection or just pulling from the ONE cylinder the knock is detected in. This is a common mistake of tuners to adjust these values actually. Sensitivity can easily be manipulated as well, another common mistake, especially if *false* knock is suspected while tuning.

Based on the plug pick and description I'd say there is a 95% chance you will find a broken top ring land. 5% something else hit the plug and damaged the piston. (not real likely a bolt or something else got sucked in as the engine has been running for 3 weeks)

Not really surprising either, this not the first time. Just got a call from CCC Motorsports on Tuesday about re-tuning a new built Paxton Coyote after the stock motor was taken out by the Lund / Beefcake special Tune.

 

[beefcake]

When I got the car home I turned the key up to see if there was a code and I did accidently starts it (bumped it up to high with the key) and it made like one turn with a binding sound . I cant see any oil around the motor but is steady coming out where my xpipe clamps but im sure that is from when it blew because the oil is really burnt , the oil in the engine is still like new though . when it happened I was doing about 60 or so getting on it and when it went there was a super thick cloud of white some that just shot out the car until it came to a stop and the car killed. Im not that knowledgeable in detail with detonation and all that and have no clue what happened , I personally have nothing but good to say about beefcake and lund they both have met my expectations from start to finish. Looking at it in the most positive way like I told my wife is ( just look at it like I was going to spend the 10-11k on a motor anyway) trust me flowers aint going fix this one! My main thing is finding out what caused it so that is why im bringing it to tss and getting the car done by him. I could just get a new motor and install it myself but the same thing can happen right off the jump. Spending this much im going to order a fuel system, 8 rib , and anything else necessary to make it as durable as possible

I would hold off until Daniel diagnoses it. No reason to spend money blindly. It could just be the pump and one leaned out and broke first, or injector clogged. No reason to buy a fuel system if an injector cleaning fixes the issue. Then you spend more than needed overall and this becomes and even more bitter experience overall. Then stress goes up, you ask Daniel to work cheaper because it's cost you "X" amount of money, he gets stressed, then you bring it home. Stress the old lady, the poon stops flowing and you sell the car unfinished lol. So have a drink, send it to Daniel, let him work his magic and recommend where to spend your money properly. Over spend and momma ain't happy. If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Email the pic here and I'll post it for you.
[email protected]

Pretty accurate.

You like that? Lol:lol:

Plug looks like it was struck for sure. You can see the witness mark on turnoff side of the ground strap closest to you. Hard to tell how much heat was in the cylinder, but doesn't look like detonation. And looking in the back ground, doesn't look like the dreaded #8 cyl. That's all I can see/tell. Time to tear her down.

It was #5

Just wondering is it pretty easy to find out why a motor let go via a tear down? I mean damage is being done when it lets go..so how can you find the starting point of failure?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Just as Dustin said.

 

[TexasStang4585]

op:

 

[powerhogger]

op:

Agreed.

 

[Dizzyscure1]

The question is IF the fault is found will someone step up and offer a fix. I personally know Josh and was with him on the initial startup logs and can say this man doesn't beat his crap to hell and back and he's very particular on quality and doing things correct the first time around as some may be able to tell from his posts. Good Luck J, don't stress on the car and DONT burn her to the ground as I know that's going through ur head before u know it u will be back giving them boys hell with that beast hahaha !!

 

[BrianH87]

That's the thing.... Whenever you sign up for a tune, you waive all liability from the tuner. Even if it was found that the car was detonating and melted / cracked a piston, bad gas will be blamed. Did anybody get a data log of this car? That will show how much timing and what afr's it was running. A teardown isn't going to tell if the motor had preignition from bad gas or a poor tune. I trust the tuning ability of most these guys, but you never know what can happen.

 

[Need4Speed03]

We tuned the car, no biggie there. Not sure how a tune is going to smash a plug, lol. That's like saying a tune caused a control arm to break.

Can't believe I just read that statement...detonation can shatter a piston, a bad tune can cause detonation...especially with FI and the possibility of bad gas.

That being said Lund prob has more experience tuning the Paxton/Vortechs then anyone else out there. Interested to hear what they find when they open the motor up, but I would bet a broken piston is what caused that hammered plug.

 

[Need4Speed03]

Or, a rod broke and took the piston out...really the only 2 scenarios I can see.

Has anyone heard of or seen one of these coyote motors break a valve spring and drop a valve? That could be a possibility I guess, but unlikely.

 

[badblackhemi]

How is this 'no biggie' in your book?
This is a huge expense for someone who just spent a LOT of $$$ with you expecting to be getting 'the best' parts and tuning.

Going out on a limb here as it's not my place to say, but I think beef meant "no biggie" as in admitting he was responsible for the tune bc the OP didn't wish to name the tuner. Not, no biggie, as in he tuned it and it blew up.

 

[beefcake]

Going out on a limb here as it's not my place to say, but I think beef meant "no biggie" as in admitting he was responsible for the tune bc the OP didn't wish to name the tuner. Not, no biggie, as in he tuned it and it blew up.

Exactly, I'm never afraid to talk about a car we tuned. These things happen sometimes to everyone's customers. I think by now everyone knows I take customer service pretty seriously.

We do an unreal amount of these combos. We tune safer than most. Logs looked great on Josh's car. We limit all the tunes out of the gate for those customers that try to push too much too fast.

Not saying the car couldn't have detonated, any car can detonate. What in saying, is the way we tune the car. The tune itself isn't going to cause the problem.

Could be lots of things, bad gas, bad engine, bad injector, something got in the intake tract, and on and on.

We tune for lambda, converting to a/f , we are usually around 11.2 to 11.5, and a max of 16 degrees.

Lots of popular tuners that go way more aggressive than that. Can a tune pop an engine, with out a doubt. Do I think so here. Without a doubt, no.

We keep every customer log, and joshs looked great. Hopefully it's something minor in the scheme of things, but that wont be known till Daniel pulls her apart.

Hopefully he can be back on the road quick!

 

[Shaun@AED]

There are aspects of these engines / ECU's that Lund does not know about, and some of these have the potential to blow engines with ease on boosted applications (Things that will not show up in limited Live Link data logs). A few changes here and there go a LONG way to saving an engine.
I've pushed these stock engines farther than most and yet engine failure is not an issue.

Case in point, 864RWHP on a Paxton 15min ago, Stock Boss engine.
I pushed Jesse's 13M6 to 773SAE and Beef plastered the boards that I was a dangerous tuner.
I pushed Blazers 12M6 to 710SAE
Fifty's 13A6 to 676SAE and it's gone 9.9s @3800lbs
Mike's 14 D1SC A6: 688
Kevin's 13A6 Paxton: 673
Marcs 13M6 P1SC ran out of fuel at 758 (yet it's not blown)
Chad's 12M6 TVS a conservative 624SAE
David's 11M6 Paxton to 727
Matt's 12A6 to 634 with 26 degrees of timing running in 100 degree heat. We did a compression test before selling the engine to a buddy of ours. Test was perfect. He's now making over 780 on the new setup, car is 4000lbs with driver.

These are just a few examples over the last year or so of cars done on my dyno, there are 5x those with even more impressive numbers I've done remotely.
And they are all still running!

Sure, some of these guys are running the risk of breaking a rod from simply TOO much power, but detonation is not a factor, and it's all in the tuning.

The question is, if/when detonation traces are found, will Team Beefcake Racing stand behind their product and help the customer out?

 

[TexasStang4585]