I didn't change mine until 6000 miles and it still said i had 45% left, but I have no knocking noise either. I would not change it early.
Synthetic Oils
- Thread starter NavStar
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I wouldn't consider changing it until 1,500 miles. That's when I changed the oil in my Shelby. It had 5W-50, but now 10W-40. It runs more efficient now, yet protects better due to a superior formulation. 50 grade oil is too heavy for ANY modular in my opinion, and I have already proven it.
It's a fact 5W-20 was selected for CAFE laws, and no other reason. When the engine is stock, 5W-20 is fine for daily driving. When you begin to mod your engine and add more horsepower, you are increasing the pressure on the bottom end bearings, especially when you are using forced induction or nitrous. Extra pressure requires extra protection, and 5W-20 isn't cutting the mustard. So the switch to 5W-30 is logical.
This will answer ALL of your questions, and everyone else as well. It's perfectly fine to use 10W-30 in place of 5W-30 when you are using your car above 32*F. Especially when you take into consideration modding, as outlined above, and high temperatures we have in the southern states.
I encourage everyone to read post #30 and #31 in the link provided below to answer all of your questions about what oil to use in your Ford modular engine.
Team Shelby - Why 10W-30
Hope this helps Ray.
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I have noticed lots of ticking noise from the engine, is that bad?
Increase the weight to 10W-30 and report back if the noise has went away.
yeah don't use the weight of oil recommended in your manual or on the oil cap. the ford engineers only cared about EPA and are recommending a bad oil weight that will ruin your engine
for you guys increasing the weight, have fun going against what ford recommends and what is clearly stated to use (5w-20). the engines oil recommended is already spec'd for longevity. with this complex of a motor you might be running into more issues than you bargained for by using a heavier weight..good luck!!!
for you guys increasing the weight, have fun going against what ford recommends and what is clearly stated to use (5w-20). the engines oil recommended is already spec'd for longevity. with this complex of a motor you might be running into more issues than you bargained for by using a heavier weight..good luck!!!
yeah don't use the weight of oil recommended in your manual or on the oil cap. the ford engineers only cared about EPA and are recommending a bad oil weight that will ruin your engine
Ford, as many other auto manufacturers, decreased the recommended weight of engine lubricant due to CAFE laws. The SAME Ford modular engines in Australia are spec'd for 5W-30, and they are the SAME internally. The reason why.....Australia doesn't have CAFE laws. Ford saves millions of dollars a year in penalty fines by improving mpg by 1/10th on every modular using 5W-20 versus 5W-30. To read more about CAFE laws, click here.
CAFE Laws - why 5W-20 was spec'd
Here are two cliff notes that are very important to the conversation at hand.
5W-20 is the "minimum" spec'd/recommended engine lubricant for the new 5.0 Coyote, but it's not the only lubricant OK to use. Don't take everything you read in your owners manual as gospel. You are not going to run into issues using a 30 grade lubricant where a 20 grade is spec'd, you will actually INCREASE engine protection. 5W-20 is OK to use on stock engines driven as grocery getters, but they are not suitable for long term use in high horsepower applications with a modded 5.0 coyote. Don't assume Ford knows better than someone like me just because I didn't build the thing.
Ford made a "business" decision I like to call an "acceptable sacrifice". 5W-20 will take your engine well out of warranty periods before any trouble would occur from using too light of a lubricant. Also keep in mind that they don't have to warranty a modded engine, as that violates your warranty policy.
Let's leave the oil discussion to guys like me who know what's going on behind the scenes so the proper advice can be taken, and to why 5W-30 or 10W-30 is a far better choice.
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i appreciate the input you gave and am not trying to argue with you but i don't think the coyote development team of engineers would sacrifice anything that would prematurely wear the engine to gain 1/10 of an mpg. they made enough struggles during the car's development to wring out performance and i don't think this car was spec'd as a grocery getter.
it may not be prepared for the track like the BOSS is but ford is well aware of the uses people would have for the car. i don't remember reading anything saying "use xW-xx oil for extended track use to improve long term durability" you are right that CAFE standards has a huge influence on oil type but i fail to believe that the engineers put engine longevity on the back burner just to satisfy those standards.
the car's oil just may have to be changed sooner with track use but i wouldn't just go and bump up the oil with the assumption that the ONLY reason this particular motor is recommending 5w-20 is EPA/CAFE.
people like to say "But the BOSS is using a heavier weight" yes that may be but the car's engine was also designed a bit differently. actually, the internal differences between the BOSS and the Coyote 5.0 are substantial. i'll continue to use what the engineers recommend and i doubt others will have a problem. anyone else is free to use what they wish, that's the beauty about oil! it's like religion....:bored:
appreciate your opinion on the matter though. forgive me for not taking it THAT seriously. i have been on too many forums and listened to tons of self-proclaimed technicians. i like to play it safe and just use what the engineers recommend for this particular car.
if you are pushing high hp, say 600+, then you probably have a lot more things to worry about other than the oil type...don't expect your engine to last long with that much power anyway. we will just have to wait and see.
the same principles used on old big blocks is different from this high tech ti-vct engine. there is a lot more going on and oil is needed in more places so using the heavier weight is a "do at your own risk"
once people start putting on high miles, we will start to see what was right and what was the wrong rule to follow. i just choose not to be the guinea pig :beer:
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OK, you made me play my trump card.....
1. Older 4.6L modular that were originally spec'd for 5W-30 were back spec'd to 5W-20 due to CAFE laws. Australian modular engines remained spec'd for 5W-30. No changes in design in any engine platform, only a change in recommended oil viscosity.
2. More than one Ford engineer that has developed Ford modular engines has commented in forums that they would never rely on 5W-20 for their 4.6L, or even the new 5.0. They also reported less wear when torture tested with 5W-30 versus 5W-20 when inspected upon engine tear down.
3. The Boss is spec'd for a heavier lubricant for a good reason. Ford knows when not used for every day driving, 5W-20 isn't viscous enough to prevent engine wear. Read up on HT/HS (High Temp/High Shear).
4. If you think for one minute that Ford values the longevity of your new 5.0 engine more than the millions they are saving in CAFE fines simply by recommending a lubricant that will save tenths of a mile per gallon, you would be so wrong. In business, money comes first. Longevity is second, as long as the engine will exceed the warranty period. I say again, if you mod your engine, no warranty....so Ford won't care at all.
In the end, 5W-20 will allow the Coyote to have a good life past 100,000 miles, but tear down your engine after 100,000 miles to take a peak inside. Compare it to the same engine that used 5W-30, and I would love to see the look on anyone's face who doesn't think there will be a difference.
1. Older 4.6L modular that were originally spec'd for 5W-30 were back spec'd to 5W-20 due to CAFE laws. Australian modular engines remained spec'd for 5W-30. No changes in design in any engine platform, only a change in recommended oil viscosity.
2. More than one Ford engineer that has developed Ford modular engines has commented in forums that they would never rely on 5W-20 for their 4.6L, or even the new 5.0. They also reported less wear when torture tested with 5W-30 versus 5W-20 when inspected upon engine tear down.
3. The Boss is spec'd for a heavier lubricant for a good reason. Ford knows when not used for every day driving, 5W-20 isn't viscous enough to prevent engine wear. Read up on HT/HS (High Temp/High Shear).
4. If you think for one minute that Ford values the longevity of your new 5.0 engine more than the millions they are saving in CAFE fines simply by recommending a lubricant that will save tenths of a mile per gallon, you would be so wrong. In business, money comes first. Longevity is second, as long as the engine will exceed the warranty period. I say again, if you mod your engine, no warranty....so Ford won't care at all.
In the end, 5W-20 will allow the Coyote to have a good life past 100,000 miles, but tear down your engine after 100,000 miles to take a peak inside. Compare it to the same engine that used 5W-30, and I would love to see the look on anyone's face who doesn't think there will be a difference.
okay I don't think either of us will really know how THIS particular motor will look after 100k. however you can go your route and I'll go mine and we can live in harmony. appreciate you taking the time to share your info though.
We(Royal Purple) recommend 1,000 miles to insure complete ring seating before changing to our synthetic oils. Because of the factory fill being 5W-20 synthetic blend, I drained it out at 500 miles in my 04 and filled back up with 5W-30 Motorcraft conventional and ran that till 2500, just to be sure.
IMHO 500 miles is too soon unless you have been at WOT for 1/2 the time the car has been running.
Nothing bad will happen, you are just giving up on the possibility of better sealed cylinders.
If everyone was running Amsoil, Redline or Royal Purple, running 5W-20 would become a non-issue.:-D:beer:
Sure would help the argument wouldn't it Jimmy, but we know it's too easy for the novice to reach for Mobil 1, Castrol, and Motorcraft Synblend off the Shelf.
Hey! At least they could buy the Purple Stuff over the counter, but the $8.99 per quart price turns many away. You get what you pay for in an engine lubricant!!!
I was really bugged when Ford first changed over to the 5W-20, just to save fines on CAFE.
I am still not a fan of the wide spread adoption of it's use. Especially with oils that are not a high quality FULL SYNTHETIC.
I must admit though, that this has become less of an issue when I'm helping RP customers selecting which products are correct for their vehicles.
I am almost certain the move to the more expensive synthetic blend by Ford/Motorcraft very shortly after the move to 5W-20, was solely because of the results of troubling durability testing outcomes with the then current 5W-20 conventional oils.
A search for "Scott Whitehead former Ford durability testing engineer" should open some eyes and minds to the realities of the 20 weight issue.
I am still not a fan of the wide spread adoption of it's use. Especially with oils that are not a high quality FULL SYNTHETIC.
I must admit though, that this has become less of an issue when I'm helping RP customers selecting which products are correct for their vehicles.
I am almost certain the move to the more expensive synthetic blend by Ford/Motorcraft very shortly after the move to 5W-20, was solely because of the results of troubling durability testing outcomes with the then current 5W-20 conventional oils.
A search for "Scott Whitehead former Ford durability testing engineer" should open some eyes and minds to the realities of the 20 weight issue.
Thanks Jimmy, I couldn't remember his name. This is one of the guys I mentioned above. Here are some cliff notes for those who have no desire to search for the information.
and there you have it folks. A Former Ford engine durability testing engineer who said the "profits" were considered first, and longevity was second.
and how about this quote from an investigative article written on the subject. It's taken from this article.
Motor Oils - Fuel Economy vs. Wear
I want to add a comment to the quotes below:
Not actually. True synthetics can give you both, with little compromise. Read below to learn more. It's all in contaminate free universal molecules that provide less friction than inferior base stocks.
Using a top tier true synthetic like Royal Purple, Amsoil, or Red Line will not increase catalyst damage due to higher contents of ZDDP. Since they all have lower NOACK Volatility (less burn off/evaporation) they do not contaminate the catalyst with phosphorous any more than a lubricant with lower amounts of ZDDP and higher NOACK. Pay for true synthetics, and you get the best of both worlds with no compromises. You also do not sacrifice fuel economy. It's a WIN WIN situation.
This is how I know.
Increased oil weight and MPG improved, Possible?
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While there are compelling arguements for both sides and everyone that sells oil is an expert, it is dishonest to proclaim that Ford only cares about making it past the warranty period.
If Fords were falling over right after warranty it would not only be a Media frenzy but Ford would break their neck to fix it. They do make compromises for money, but compromises don't always involve extremes.
If Fords were falling over right after warranty it would not only be a Media frenzy but Ford would break their neck to fix it. They do make compromises for money, but compromises don't always involve extremes.
Who said anything about extremes? 5W-20 will get 150K miles from a 5.0 easy, enough said there.
This topic has evolved into what is BEST for the Ford Modular, not what is sufficient.
Ford made an acceptable sacrifice to save money. 99% of modular owners would never know or see the difference the two grades of oils actually make. If you built an engine, and 5W-20 would achieve 150,000 miles before rebuild, would you care that the oil was too light? Not when you are saving millions of dollars a year using 5W-20. If the same engine could have made 200,000 miles with 5W-30, would it be worth it to Ford, never. If a true synthetic in a 5W-30 or 10W-30 could achieve 300,000 or more in the same engine, would Ford care....still wouldn't. Their drivetrain warranty is over at 60,000 miles. People accept that 150,000 miles is average life for an engine. Most people never keep a car beyond 150,000 miles. They trade it off, and it becomes someone else problem. Let's not forget that auto manufacturers want to continue selling the same person a new car over and over. Building a car to last forever isn't economical to a "bean counter".
Summary:
5W-20 will achieve an acceptable life expectancy from your engine.
5W-30 or 10W-30 will get you more miles from your engine before a rebuild is required. Ford engineers know this, but the "bean counters" are more worried about CAFE penalties than an engine you likely will not own, and will not be in warranty at 150,000 miles.
It's common sense, not extreme.
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Just curious how many engines you have torn down and rebuilt by yourself?
I run Royal Purple 5w30
Thank you Jim!:rockon:
We appreciate your business. Some of the newer guys may not know may not know you and your history, but I sure do.:beer:
I'm switching back to 5W-30 but moving up to XPR (race oil) in my open track/street 04 Cobra next change, and I'm expecting that I will see slightly lower temps than with the 10W-40 RP street oil I was running before.
We will see how it goes, 20 minutes of HPDE/OpenTrack is still a lot of WOT.
Doesn't matter what I have done personally. What matters are the pictures I have seen, and those I have spoken too/read comments from who have torn down hundreds. If you are trying to discredit my logic with your comment, it's a failed attempt.
I have seen the results (in person) of improper lubrication protection from dirt track cars that are torn down every season. I have friends who build the engines for them.
Jimmy, report back after your runs and let me know the results you have experienced. I would love to hear them.
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