I drastically dropped my fuel temps by over 100F

[SnakeBoostE85]

Yep, I spent a couple weeks thinking about this from an engineering perspective. That was precisely my conclusion as well. Cool the fuel after the heat source so that your returning fuel to the tank that is basically ambient temperature. Fuel going to the rails would come fresh from the tank at essentially the outside temperature or slightly above and keep the fuel pump cool.

I don't currently have anyway of measuring the fuel temps. I'm going purely off of feel - "that would have burned to touch vs. I can hold it in my hand". I don't think the 03/04 has a fuel temp sensor or PID for that. Malcolm - did you install a fuel temp sensor with an analog output? Aerotechforce makes a Ethanol and temp sensor combo that I may install. I would need a third gauge pod though.

 

[c6zhombre]

There is a PID for fuel temp....mine would datalog about 130 degrees.....but I'm returnless.

That heat exchanger looks effective.....but that location looks dangerous as hell. Carry a fire extinguisher in the car at all times....maybe consider driving wearing a fire suit

 

[SnakeBoostE85]

where is the factory fuel temp sensor located?

agreed on the location, its not the safest place. I will be carrying a mini fire extinguisher. The one thing I did do based on Malcolm's advice was wire the fuel pump through the factory inertia switch/FPDM. So in the event of a crash it should kill the fuel pump at least and not continue pumping fuel after an accident. There's a down side to this also from a hot start perspective, if the fuel was continuously flowing it would immediately get cool fuel to the rails. The prime is so short, that the pump never gets fresh fuel from the tank to the rails unless you cycle the key at least 3-4 times.

Curious if anyone has come up with a way to keep the pump running longer during the key on prime.

 

[MalcolmV8]

where is the factory fuel temp sensor located?

It's built into the fuel rail pressure sensor.

Curious if anyone has come up with a way to keep the pump running longer during the key on prime.

Yes I modified my fuel pump module that staged the fuel pumps based on MAF flow to prime the second pump for a few seconds on key on. Ultimately I fixed the hot start issue in the tune though and removed the feature from the fuel pump module.
If your car is struggling with hot starts work with your tuner to get that sorted.

 

[SnakeBoostE85]

OK - well its MUCH better now, once cool fuel hits the injectors it fires right up, but its just not that instant factory EFI startup that you would get under any condition. As far as the tuner... that would be me (not a pro). Only thing I can think of is adding more fuel to start up, when engine temp is warm.

 

[MalcolmV8]

OK - well its MUCH better now, once cool fuel hits the injectors it fires right up, but its just not that instant factory EFI startup that you would get under any condition. As far as the tuner... that would be me (not a pro). Only thing I can think of is adding more fuel to start up, when engine temp is warm.

The best thing to do is experiment with it. You can adjust cranking fuel based on engine temp. Try adding, little at a time and observing the results. If it gets worse try removing. It'll take some time and a few days of driving around and observing results but you'll get it. E85 car?
I found when I was running E70 the car started up very easily on the same cranking and startup fueling as my pump gas tune. Once I started getting true E85 the car became a lot more finicky and I had to start playing around with cranking fuel to get it to start easily.

 

[SnakeBoostE85]

yes - E85 car. I actually have a lot more E70 available. There's a chain of stations here called Kum & Go that all carry E70 and they are on every street corner. There's another chain called Western Convenience that exclusively carries true E85 - its tests out to be about E87-ish. So I typically use that instead of E70 for higher octane.

 

[bigmoose]

Your right... I do have more plumbing... I meant putting the regulator in the fender does complicate things. Seems like a lot of people had fuel pressure issues after going dead head based on the how the thread reads.

From following this thread from the beginning my understanding is the people that have pressure issues after going deadhead are using inferior regulators. Clearly not all regulators are the same as Malcolm has shown. I think anyone here running a Fore regulator dead head has not had any issues, myself included.

Agree the start can be lazy but for me anyway that's a non issue.

 

[SnakeBoostE85]

There is a PID for fuel temp....mine would datalog about 130 degrees.....but I'm returnless.

ok cool, I was curious what is considered normal for a returnless setup. So I did some data logging, my fuel temps are sitting between 98 and 110 driving around the city. It was in the mid to high 30's out though, so its equivalent to the heat exchanger sitting in a freon. Since the temp sensor is on the downstream side, the fuel is at it hottest it would get in the rails at this point. So anything from there is going to drop significantly once it goes back to the tank. Be nice to have another temp sensor on the return line after the heat exchanger to see what the fuel temp is being returned to the tank and the delta between the two.

 

[SVT GI]

On my current build I decided to try the dead head set up. Seems to be working good. Haven't had any hard start issues but I'm on pump and race gas. I actually had to cut down on crank fuel in my tune because I was having extreme flooding during cranking. I'm using an Aeromotive 13134, seems to be much bigger than the regulators I've used on previous builds.

It's been a while since I've been in the AMZ2 strategy, but my LLX4 (96-98 Cobra) has a function to extend pump prime in seconds. I haven't used it but was going to if needed. Maybe the 03-04s have something similar to help with prime?

 

[SVT_Troy]

For those that went the dead head route are you using a crossover line in the front or opposite side of the feed on the rails


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[MG0h3]

Doesnt it have to be in front if the feed is in the back? Do your rails even have a provision for the rear?

 

[Bdubbs]

For those that went the dead head route are you using a crossover line in the front or opposite side of the feed on the rails


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I'm running dead head with stock fuel rails.

 

[SVT_Troy]

You need to have a crossover line preventing drivability issues. The crossover just needs to be opposite of the feed. I feed the rear of both rails and have a crossover in the front. I don’t see why you couldn’t have it the opposite way using FORE rails.


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[SVT GI]

For those that went the dead head route are you using a crossover line in the front or opposite side of the feed on the rails


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Yes, wouldn't of felt comfortable running without a balance line.

 

[Soap]

For those that went the dead head route are you using a crossover line in the front or opposite side of the feed on the rails


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I feed the rear of the rails and have a crossover in front going under the blower snout.

--Joe

 

[MalcolmV8]

I feed the rear of the rails and have no crossover. Using the largest Fore Fi4 regulator and no issues. I avoided the front cross over to keep the engine bay looking clean.

 

[bigmoose]

Deadhead on stock rails. Drivability is perfect. My factory pressure sensor at the opposite end of the feed read rock steady all the time. Fore F2i regulator. I'm also running "crap" SD 80# injectors.

 

[D-MANN]

Anyone here try Glenn’s Performance fuel cooler?similar to the other cooler just without the fan.


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[Ironmancuck]

Ford switched over to returnless fuel systems one simple reason: reduce fuel temps.

I would rather build up a returnless system rather than deal with the head aches and added expense of a return system. Furthermore, there are plenty of high powered vehicles running just fine returnless fuel systems such as 8 second Gt500’s, 1000+hp Ford Gt super cars, etc.