5.0 Coyote Valve Spring Upgrade: Brands, size, and price

[CPRsm]

Bud I'd skip the boss exh valves for a turbo motor. Stock are a much better idea being inconnel. They're cheap from being mass prodcued as well. Well over 1100rwhp w them. Only thing I would replace them w is Ferrea super alloy if it were me. Idk the cost for those though. Aftermarket tends to be expensive when factory does such a good job that not many people buy the aftermarket stuff.

This is simply NOT correct and Terrible information being posted for the average guy out there who is building a motor and is trying to weigh options on Valve springs for his expensive motor. The Boss Springs are NOT the ideal option, especially at higher boost levels, even above 12psi.

We can further turn this into a pissing match or edit the post and leave BBR's post alone on providing spring pressure options. The Fastest Coyotes out there are definitely not running a Boss spring, that's a FACT.

I don't see anything wrong w the post. Lighter valves require less spring pressure. But you can't say it's wrong for an average street car and compare to cars running 8-9k, isn't a fair comparison. Engines spinning that high and taking that kind of abuse should be buying the good shit. Not everyone needs them though. We have more than one customer pushing 18-20+ psi on Boss springs. So far logs look good and everything on the dyno showed good and revved clean. We've even run 13psi on stock springs w no issues. Just depends what you're after. I wouldn't have a problem w boss springs on certain apps.

All bullshit aside some guys plan for valve float as an advantage if you can believe that! lol

 

[SteveG@Lethal]

Thank you for letting us know you know about GM cams, valvetrain and theory. I commend on that.....

I do not care if you buy from us but with all this bad info going around lately.... Myself and a few other shops decided that this has gone to far. I took the time to post the basic information. If you do not agree, well sorry.

If you think the BOSS is the way to go... Cool. It will be fine for basic set up's but it will not hold at higher RPM at anything that's pushing 15+ psi and has nothing to do with "bad" turbo kits on the coyotes. Which is the purpose of my post. TO show the difference.

The spring rates were posted for all to see. Nothing more has to be said.

 

[poof100]

I don't see anything wrong w the post. Lighter valves require less spring pressure. But you can't say it's wrong for an average street car and compare to cars running 8-9k, isn't a fair comparison. Engines spinning that high and taking that kind of abuse should be buying the good shit. Not everyone needs them though. We have more than one customer pushing 18-20+ psi on Boss springs. So far logs look good and everything on the dyno showed good and revved clean. We've even run 13psi on stock springs w no issues. Just depends what you're after. I wouldn't have a problem w boss springs on certain apps.

All bullshit aside some guys plan for valve float as an advantage if you can believe that! lol

I don't disagree with the comments regarding the lighter valve train, the lighter Boss valves etc. However, we aren't talking about a Stock car or bolt on car or even a small power adder car. We are talking about Built engines, motors pushing High boost levels etc. The boss valves are not good for high boost levels, especially the heat from a Turbo setup, as you mention. For high revving N/A applications like the Boss or the Z06 motors etc, yes the lighter valvetrain parts are nice.

I agree that the Boss has a better valvetrain, lighter valves, better springs etc. However, where I disagree and the misinformation is, is around recommending the Boss valve springs for high HP/high boost applications, as the original post mentions, 15psi and higher etc.

If someone is building a motor and plans to make power, the Boss valve springs would be towards the bottom of my build list. What do I know though, my Turbo car doesn't make any power :rollseyes

 

[Eric@jpc]

High spring rates can mean VCT becomes uncontrollable at RPM.

Aside from poorly designed turbo kits with excessive back pressure I have yet to see any issues with the OE Boss setup with OE Boss hollow stem valves.

Lighter valve train weight = less spring pressure needed to control the valves properly.
OE Boss has several advantages IMO.
1. OE quality tested on the Boss
2. More seat pressure
3. Lighter weight valves
4. Proven full VCT control at RPM

For the average street/strip supercharged / cammed 5.0 there is no better setup IMO.

So exactly how much valve spring pressure does it take to create an issue from your testing?

Also how big of cams are you running in those combos?

Only reason i ask is because with Bench Racers car we saw no issue with the trickflow "1" spring Steve posted above. VCT Acted normal and held great at WOT as well as part throttle. Saw no reason why they will not work. We also added shim to those springs to beef up the seat pressure. There for if they were installed at 1.575 Factory height there would be absolutely no issue with VCT.

I will also add this for good measure all the Cobra Jet Whipple cars are running Livernois Springs with working VCT. Obviously i don’t know what install height they are using but that seems to work good as well. I wonder why they don’t have boss springs... We have also never had an issue with livernoise when installed correctly.

Also that fact that you say OE quality... That's laughable clearly you have never checked any of these springs. yes they have more pressure by a whopping 10 Lbs on the seat. and are possibly the most inconsistent piece of garbage on the list. Like i said in another thread they work fine on your average 700 Hp car. Besides that i would not install them.

Also i would like to add yes the Boss valves are lighter and will help the situation of valve float that is true. How Ever in any turbo application a hollow stem valve would not be ideal. The amount of heat in the exhaust valve on a turbo setup is alot and hollow stem will be more likely to mess up.

Now on to the poorly designed turbo kit comment. Im going to guess this is a jab at Hellion and JPC. Bucket already posted his log with valve float on a boss with 12 psi and a hellion twin kit. Our kit can see the same issue since the boss has more aggressive exhaust cams compiled with back pressure that any turbo will produce.

I will agree on the seat pressure, that it can create more of a bouncing effect when the valve closes. However open pressure is equally important since you can actually "jump" the follower off the cam lobe. Especially with boost (the boost is taking away from your base pressure.) This Art has been tried several times in limited lift racing classes to try and achieve more lift. Any way if you bounce the valve open you can have a rough landing and create an issue. like a screen door in a wind storm.

Now if we want to talk about LS1 cams you’re on the wrong forum there is absolutely nothing In common between a LS1/2/3/6/7 and a coyote, other than they both have 8 cylinders. If you told me you spent the last 10 years working on 2JZ engines then that would be a different story. So the cam thing is cool, but it carries little weight as far I’m concerned.

Moral of my story is with big power you need a bigger spring end of story.

I’m willing to bet if you can get by with a boss spring its not going to last long. The stuff does wear out, springs are not like headers they’ve got a limited life expectancy.

Now if all you guys want to gamble and throw in a cheap set of 120 dollar springs in to your build then obviously the choice is yours. However its not going to work out in the long run, and honestly we have no desire to tune a 1000 hp car with boss springs.

Interesting info. I've been curious if spring pressure becomes a concern with cam, follower, and chain wear. Would the boss hollow valve stems be a bad idea on a severe duty turbo motor with excess heat and pressure, how would they stand up?

I think over springing these engines can create an issue its not as likely on a turbo engine as it is on blower setup IMO.

Al Davis car has Lock outs and The Trick Flow “2” Springs that steve posted. We decided on those springs because of the cams and the amount of boost we were running. That car has well over 200 passes and we just inspected everything and it looks like the day we installed it.

Now I touched on the boss valves above. I would not run them on your car. IF you run a stainless valve or something of that nature it will really require more spring because its heavier.

Every spring has a cycling lifespan and will lose pressure over time or misuse. I'm not an expert in any of the design, just been racing for a while. On my push rod motors with big solid roller cams I would change springs yearly or if float began to occur. Just my useless 2 cents.

Quoted for truth!!! :lol:

On my old NA push rod engine depending on how many passes I made I could go through 2 sets of springs a year. This only a .500 lift cam.

I feel the coyote springs last longer do to the fact cam lobes are not aggressive and the weight of everything. I would imagine you had a serious spring on the engine you’re talking about. I guess what im getting at is Springs are a wear item and do not last forever.

 

[StevenStarke]

Since when are valve springs purchased based on psi or power? The only things effecting springs are RPM and Back pressure, and heat I guess.

 

[Eric@jpc]

Since when are valve springs purchased based on psi or power? The only things effecting springs are RPM and Back pressure, and heat I guess.

And Cam lift but yes you are right

Power isn't really an issue, how ever Power and boost kind of go hand and hand

 

[Shaun@AED]

Busy working ATM.
I will post detailed tech later this afternoon.

FYI, if you all re-read my post you will find I did not recommend anything for turbo applications nor 15+ PSI SC apps.

My statement was 'the average supercharged / cammed 5.0'.

Expect details later and I will post turbo application specifics as well.

 

[Eric@jpc]

Busy working ATM.
I will post detailed tech later this afternoon.

FYI, if you all re-read my post you will find I did not recommend anything for turbo applications nor 15+ PSI SC apps.

My statement was 'the average supercharged / cammed 5.0'.

Expect details later and I will post turbo application specifics as well.

thats cool, im sure you are busy its a bit slow here since its snowing pretty good

For the record i am not trying to fight or "hate' on you just posting up up the facts.

I assumed we are not talking about stock engine cars making 600-750 because who is going to go through the time to install springs on a stock engine unless its with cams.


Looking forward to your post :-D

 

[Deespeed99]

Arent boss springs in the aluminator? I made over 950+ HP on more then 8-9 pulls with no signs of float and reving to 6800-7000rpm. 15-18lbs of boost....

 

[Eric@jpc]

Arent boss springs in the aluminator? I made over 950+ HP on more then 8-9 pulls with no signs of float and reving to 6800-7000rpm. 15-18lbs of boost....

like is said you might get it to work and i can see why you ran them do to the fact they come in that engine.

I would not expect to get a long life out of them

My post is more directed at people looking to add them to there built engine.

i will do the math as to how much spring pressure you have at 20 psi and post back

Thanks

 

[Deespeed99]

like is said you might get it to work and i can see why you ran them do to the fact they come in that engine.

I would not expect to get a long life out of them

My post is more directed at people looking to add them to there built engine.

i will do the math as to how much spring pressure you have at 20 psi and post back

Thanks

Ahhh i gotcha, that makes sense. Yeah my next motor i will not be using them, no sense in doing so if you've already got it apart. Im sure my block is thr issue before those springs lol.

 

[spdracr0]

So what you are saying is my 50k mile motor prolly needs a set of springs???lol MAybe one day...and maybe I will buy some headers one day too...

 

[nosscort]

if I may and just reading this is moral of story.. If you have a built motor and or an aluminator with boss springs (because ford designed them to be used in the 9.5:1) and only pushing 15 +- lbs of boost or making under 950-1000whp according to jpc the motor build is junk and not set up right and they wont tune it?
Or if your motor is built and not using a blower or turbo and it's N/A or nitrous again running a boss valve spring it's not good enough for them to tune and is setup wrong?
And people who built their bottom end because of a #8 or just want reliability and handle more than stock bottoms and are keeping stock heads and cams but want to just drop a spring that's better than stock and don't cost $400 the boss springs are junk and wont work?
And everyone who is not spending 10-12k+- on a motor and not doing heads and cams is not setting a motor up right to make under 1000rwhp where the block is the issue before the valve springs become a problem?

I can see a all out money is not an issue and want 1000+ rwhp.. But what about those people who want and or have a blower and are getting a bottom end built and are not changing heads or cams? Or people who are building N/A cars? Or nitrous builds?

Again just trying to get the past 2 pages of info right from those who posted?

 

[VIPERED91GT]

if I may and just reading this is moral of story.. If you have a built motor and or an aluminator with boss springs (because ford designed them to be used in the 9.5:1) and only pushing 15 +- lbs of boost or making under 950-1000whp according to jpc the motor build is junk and not set up right and they wont tune it?
Or if your motor is built and not using a blower or turbo and it's N/A or nitrous again running a boss valve spring it's not good enough for them to tune and is setup wrong?
And people who built their bottom end because of a #8 or just want reliability and handle more than stock bottoms and are keeping stock heads and cams but want to just drop a spring that's better than stock and don't cost $400 the boss springs are junk and wont work?
And everyone who is not spending 10-12k+- on a motor and not doing heads and cams is not setting a motor up right to make under 1000rwhp where the block is the issue before the valve springs become a problem?

I can see a all out money is not an issue and want 1000+ rwhp.. But what about those people who want and or have a blower and are getting a bottom end built and are not changing heads or cams? Or people who are building N/A cars? Or nitrous builds?

Again just trying to get the past 2 pages of info right from those who posted?

Ummm no... My take on it is.......If you have a mild build lets say 650hp ... pending on your power adder and "back pressure " which is the key.. You could get away with the stock, Boss or Livernois as a drop in spring....Even then the spring won't last forever.. If your shooting for the moon lets say 850+ you will wanna factor in everything to setup the springs for your application... Then shim or install the correct spring for your build

 

[Shaun@AED]

I'm going to try to keep this explination as simple as possible so everyone can follow it.

First off lets discuss what valve float is.
The simple answer is valve float is the roller follower losing contact with the camshaft lobe.
Valve Loft is the roller follow flying off the camshaft lobe at peak lift. Valve Loft is used in some racing where limits on camshaft lift and duratoin are impossed. Valve Loft typically requires asymetric lobe profiles with very aggressive opening ramps that throw the follower off the lobe at peak lift and softer closing profiles to 'catch' the follower without causing the follwer to bounce.
To be 100% clear, we will not achieve valve Loft in one of these Coyote / Roadrunner engines with the current line of off-shelf camshafts. Therefore this post will focus on valve float, which is the valve bouncing on the valve seat as seen in the video link I posted above.

When does valve float (bounce) happen? By definition it is when the valve closes.

Now that we are clear what valve float actually is and when it occurs, lets look at the contributing factors:
1. RPM
2. Aggressive cam lobe profiles
3. Low spring pressures
4. Pressure differnetials on valve

The biggest contributing factors will be RPM and camshaft lobe design coupled with spring pressure.

Lets talk about spring pressures for a moment. Why is seat pressure important? Because valve float is the valve bouncing on the seat, it is NOT the roller follower flying off the end of the camshaft lobe (loft). At peak lift spring pressues are MUCH higher and there is virtually no pressure differential across the face of the valve, so 'Boost' is irrelevent when it comes to Open Spring pressure.
Higher seat pressures are used to control the valve from bouncing on the seat.

Aggressive lobe profiles like CompCams XE series greatly contribute to valve float when coupled with RPM. I think we can all agree on this so I will not discuss it further.

Low spring pressure obviously contributes to valve float. As stated above in another post it is quite common for springs to lose 10% pressure during they normal useful life.

Pressure differentials across the valve (Boost).
To answer this appropriately we need to look at when valve float occurs. As stated above valve float is the physical bouncing of the valve on the seat when it closes. During the 4-cycle combustion process we have 2 valve closing events. Intake valve closing and exhaust valve closing.
Based on the valve events of a Typical boosted coyote at *X* RPM I will now plot the valve closing events.

Intake Cam timing at -20
Intake valve @ .050" on the closing ramp is at 44.5 degrees After bottom Dead center.
Intake Valve @ .004" (considered fully closed) happens at 69 degrees Ater bottom Dead center.

Exhaust Cam timing at 10
Exhaust valve @ .050" on the closing ramp is at 7.5 degrees Before Top Dead Center.
Exhaust Vavle @ .004" happens at 18.5 degrees After Top Dead Center.

Now that we know WHERE in the combustion cycle each valve will 'bounce', we can look at the pressure differential at these points to determine of if Boost will affect things.

Intake valve:
As the intake valve is closing the piston has already reached the bottom of the bore and is on it's way back up. The incoming airflow has been filling the cylinder (aided by boost) and at a certain point we need to close to valve to 'catch' all the incoming air before the piston starts to push the airflow back into the intake manifold.
By definition of the TiVCT OP talbes (optimum performance) the goal here is to optimize the intake valve closing event to trap as much of the aircharge in the cylinder as possible. This means we close the intake valve JUST before pressure in the cylinder exceeds pressure in the intake manifold. IE pressure differential across the intake valve is very little and therefore valve float on the intake side from 'boost' is not likely, even under very high boost conditions.

Exhaust valve:
As the exhaust valve is closing the piston is just passing the top of the cylinder bore (TDC). The intake valve has just opened and ideally the incoming intake aircharge pushes out the remaining exhaust (scavenging), and it does help having an exhaust system that pulls the intake aircharge into the cylinder as well. This is the case with both Super charged and All Motor setups, therefore 'boost' does not affect exhaust valve float on these applications.
Turbocharging on the other hand will have exhaust pressure before the turbine (exhaust side of the turbo). How much depends on the kit as a 'whole', but you MUST have exhaust backpressure and Heat in order to spin the exhaust turbine. Turbo's run on heat and pressure differentials. More pressure on one side of the turbine than the other. We are all clear on this yes?
Now, the question is does pressure in the exhaust before the turbine contribute to valve float? Given location of the piston moving down the bore as the exhaust valve closes the answer is YES. Even though the intake valve is opening and there is boost behind it, there is still a low pressure zone developing in the cylinder. The intake valve is not yet open enough to flow a significant amount of airflow to fill the cylinder, let alone match the pressure on the other side of the exhaust valve. This is where Boost affects valve spring pressure, and once again it does not occur at peak lift and therefore spring pressure at peak lift is irrelevant.

I hope this clears some things up for you guys.

-Shaun
AED

 

[Shaun@AED]

With reguards to spring pressure vs VCT movement we need to look at how the TiVCT system is controlled.

Unlike the 3V mustangs Ford utilizes the valve spring energy to move the Coyote camshafts. It then uses the VCT phasers to 'hold' cam timing using oil pressure inside the cam gear similar to the 3V's.

Where:

(Oil pressure * area which it pushes * Radius from center) MUST be greater than (Valve spring pressure * Radius from center where it pushes on the lobe * number rockers not on the base circle)

Given the above, there IS a point where spring pressure can overcome the forces at work in the phaser used to 'hold' the cams at the target VCT. Where that threshold is I could not tell you, but you would likely see occilations from target via data logs when things start getting too much for the Phasers to handle, and of course it relies heavily on oil pressure, which can also vary.

Once this happens you will need to 'lock out' the VCT phasers.

 

[Aaron@JPCRacing]

if I may and just reading this is moral of story.. If you have a built motor and or an aluminator with boss springs (because ford designed them to be used in the 9.5:1) and only pushing 15 +- lbs of boost or making under 950-1000whp according to jpc the motor build is junk and not set up right and they wont tune it?
Or if your motor is built and not using a blower or turbo and it's N/A or nitrous again running a boss valve spring it's not good enough for them to tune and is setup wrong?
And people who built their bottom end because of a #8 or just want reliability and handle more than stock bottoms and are keeping stock heads and cams but want to just drop a spring that's better than stock and don't cost $400 the boss springs are junk and wont work?
And everyone who is not spending 10-12k+- on a motor and not doing heads and cams is not setting a motor up right to make under 1000rwhp where the block is the issue before the valve springs become a problem?

I can see a all out money is not an issue and want 1000+ rwhp.. But what about those people who want and or have a blower and are getting a bottom end built and are not changing heads or cams? Or people who are building N/A cars? Or nitrous builds?

Again just trying to get the past 2 pages of info right from those who posted?

I don't see where you gathered any of this information.

The Boss springs are a great option for someone trying to just "throw in a set of valve springs" on a mild build. But this discussion wasn't really tailored towards N/A / Nitrous / Light blower applications.

Eric was just mentioning the quality of the Boss springs pales in comparison to the other springs on the market.

At no point did we say we wont tune cars with boss springs. That statement was rather far fetched.

We're not going out saying that everything is junk and you have to do it our way. We just try our hardest to make sure all of our customers are setup as best as good as they can be to meet there goals. We've learned alot over the year and we try to help people avoid issues that we've ran into. Which intern saves you guys money down the road.

 

[Aaron@JPCRacing]

Given the above, there IS a point where spring pressure can overcome the forces at work in the phaser used to 'hold' the cams at the target VCT. Where that threshold is I could not tell you, but you would likely see occilations from target via data logs when things start getting too much for the Phasers to handle, and of course it relies heavily on oil pressure, which can also vary.

Once this happens you will need to 'lock out' the VCT phasers.

We're not saying it's impossible for you to run into a situation were excessive valve spring pressure will disrupt the VCT. We're saying even with some of the cars were we've installed heavier valve spring (such as the car we just did with the trickflow valve springs) didn't have any VCT issues and it didn't need lockouts or limiters.

This is not hypothetical, we know this from testing.

 

[nonliberal]

I'm going to try to keep this explination as simple as possible so everyone can follow it.

First off lets discuss what valve float is.
The simple answer is valve float is the roller follower losing contact with the camshaft lobe.
Valve Loft is the roller follow flying off the camshaft lobe at peak lift. Valve Loft is used in some racing where limits on camshaft lift and duratoin are impossed. Valve Loft typically requires asymetric lobe profiles with very aggressive opening ramps that throw the follower off the lobe at peak lift and softer closing profiles to 'catch' the follower without causing the follwer to bounce.
To be 100% clear, we will not achieve valve Loft in one of these Coyote / Roadrunner engines with the current line of off-shelf camshafts. Therefore this post will focus on valve float, which is the valve bouncing on the valve seat as seen in the video link I posted above.

When does valve float (bounce) happen? By definition it is when the valve closes.

Now that we are clear what valve float actually is and when it occurs, lets look at the contributing factors:
1. RPM
2. Aggressive cam lobe profiles
3. Low spring pressures
4. Pressure differnetials on valve

The biggest contributing factors will be RPM and camshaft lobe design coupled with spring pressure.

Lets talk about spring pressures for a moment. Why is seat pressure important? Because valve float is the valve bouncing on the seat, it is NOT the roller follower flying off the end of the camshaft lobe (loft). At peak lift spring pressues are MUCH higher and there is virtually no pressure differential across the face of the valve, so 'Boost' is irrelevent when it comes to Open Spring pressure.
Higher seat pressures are used to control the valve from bouncing on the seat.

Aggressive lobe profiles like CompCams XE series greatly contribute to valve float when coupled with RPM. I think we can all agree on this so I will not discuss it further.

Low spring pressure obviously contributes to valve float. As stated above in another post it is quite common for springs to lose 10% pressure during they normal useful life.

Pressure differentials across the valve (Boost).
To answer this appropriately we need to look at when valve float occurs. As stated above valve float is the physical bouncing of the valve on the seat when it closes. During the 4-cycle combustion process we have 2 valve closing events. Intake valve closing and exhaust valve closing.
Based on the valve events of a Typical boosted coyote at *X* RPM I will now plot the valve closing events.

Intake Cam timing at -20
Intake valve @ .050" on the closing ramp is at 44.5 degrees After bottom Dead center.
Intake Valve @ .004" (considered fully closed) happens at 69 degrees Ater bottom Dead center.

Exhaust Cam timing at 10
Exhaust valve @ .050" on the closing ramp is at 7.5 degrees Before Top Dead Center.
Exhaust Vavle @ .004" happens at 18.5 degrees After Top Dead Center.

Now that we know WHERE in the combustion cycle each valve will 'bounce', we can look at the pressure differential at these points to determine of if Boost will affect things.

Intake valve:
As the intake valve is closing the piston has already reached the bottom of the bore and is on it's way back up. The incoming airflow has been filling the cylinder (aided by boost) and at a certain point we need to close to valve to 'catch' all the incoming air before the piston starts to push the airflow back into the intake manifold.
By definition of the TiVCT OP talbes (optimum performance) the goal here is to optimize the intake valve closing event to trap as much of the aircharge in the cylinder as possible. This means we close the intake valve JUST before pressure in the cylinder exceeds pressure in the intake manifold. IE pressure differential across the intake valve is very little and therefore valve float on the intake side from 'boost' is not likely, even under very high boost conditions.

Exhaust valve:
As the exhaust valve is closing the piston is just passing the top of the cylinder bore (TDC). The intake valve has just opened and ideally the incoming intake aircharge pushes out the remaining exhaust (scavenging), and it does help having an exhaust system that pulls the intake aircharge into the cylinder as well. This is the case with both Super charged and All Motor setups, therefore 'boost' does not affect exhaust valve float on these applications.
Turbocharging on the other hand will have exhaust pressure before the turbine (exhaust side of the turbo). How much depends on the kit as a 'whole', but you MUST have exhaust backpressure and Heat in order to spin the exhaust turbine. Turbo's run on heat and pressure differentials. More pressure on one side of the turbine than the other. We are all clear on this yes?
Now, the question is does pressure in the exhaust before the turbine contribute to valve float? Given location of the piston moving down the bore as the exhaust valve closes the answer is YES. Even though the intake valve is opening and there is boost behind it, there is still a low pressure zone developing in the cylinder. The intake valve is not yet open enough to flow a significant amount of airflow to fill the cylinder, let alone match the pressure on the other side of the exhaust valve. This is where Boost affects valve spring pressure, and once again it does not occur at peak lift and therefore spring pressure at peak lift is irrelevant.

I hope this clears some things up for you guys.

-Shaun
AED

Great post Shaun. Very informative.

 

[86Fbody]

Also i would like to add yes the Boss valves are lighter and will help the situation of valve float that is true. How Ever in any turbo application a hollow stem valve would not be ideal. The amount of heat in the exhaust valve on a turbo setup is alot and hollow stem will be more likely to mess up.

I thought the point of the hollow sodium filled valves on the Boss was to help with heat.