The HARD TRUTH about EVs

O

OX1

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blk02edge said:
The faster charging in the future will likely do so with higher voltage which means cable size does not need to increase
Click to expand...

How much higher, cause over 600 volts, the rules for effing around with it start to get "serious".

High Voltage Electrical Safety Bulletin

High Voltage Electrical Safety - Working on high voltage systems — systems greater than 600 volts — must be performed using de-energized electrical safety work practices, whenever possible.
www.electrical-safety-forum.com
 
*Jay*

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OX1 said:
How much higher, cause over 600 volts, the rules for effing around with it start to get "serious".

High Voltage Electrical Safety Bulletin

High Voltage Electrical Safety - Working on high voltage systems — systems greater than 600 volts — must be performed using de-energized electrical safety work practices, whenever possible.
www.electrical-safety-forum.com
Click to expand...
1000VDC, 150kW fast chargers are in the works if not already rolled out.
 
blk02edge

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OX1 said:
How much higher, cause over 600 volts, the rules for effing around with it start to get "serious".

High Voltage Electrical Safety Bulletin

High Voltage Electrical Safety - Working on high voltage systems — systems greater than 600 volts — must be performed using de-energized electrical safety work practices, whenever possible.
www.electrical-safety-forum.com
Click to expand...
Realistically, there's not much of a limit. They'll keep pushing the envelope to try and make it more efficient
 
Corbic

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moparinsiders.com

FIAT Looking To Put An Internal Combustion Engine In The 500e?

In a surprising turn of events, Fiat, under the umbrella of Stellantis, is contemplating a significant shift in its iconic all-electric 500e city car. As sales falter and production targets remain elusive, whispers emerge from suppliers and engineers to various media sources suggesting that...
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Weather Man

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The rule for trucks is more complex, with a range of electric-vehicle or other non-traditional sales projected, depending on the type of vehicle and use, the agency said. For instance, 30% of “heavy-heavy-duty vocational” trucks would need to be zero-emission by 2032, the EPA said, while 40% of short-haul “day cabs” would need be zero emission vehicles.

The new rules for cars and trucks come as sales of EVs, which are needed to meet both standards, have begun to slow. The auto industry cited lower sales growth in objecting to the EPA’s preferred standards unveiled last April for passenger vehicles, a key part of President Joe Biden's ambitious plan to cut planet-warming emissions.

“Our Clean Trucks plan works in tandem with President Biden’s unprecedented investments in America and delivers on this administration’s commitment to tackling climate change while advancing environmental justice,'' Regan said.

The new rule will provide greater certainty for the industry, while supporting U.S. manufacturing jobs in advanced vehicle technologies, Regan said. Over the next decade, the standards “will set the U.S. heavy-duty sector on a trajectory for sustained growth,'' he said.

Industry groups strongly disagreed. They lambasted the new standards as unreachable with current electric-vehicle technology and complained about a lack of EV charging stations and power grid capacity limits.

The American Trucking Associations and the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association, which represent large swaths of the industry, predicted supply chain failures and said that smaller independent firms would likely hang onto older diesel trucks that spew more pollution, running counter to the EPA’s goals.
 
Klaus

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Biden’s Order: Let There Be Electric Trucks​

EPA’s latest EV mandate is the most costly and fanciful to date.​

 

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  • Biden’s Order_ Let There Be Electric Trucks - WSJ.pdf
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Weather Man

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EV's screw used car managers dry hard and long, again.

  • $69,012 for a brand-new Fisker Ocean in January 2024.
  • Fisker has since drastically lowered the price of the Ocean, and the company is experiencing mega financial woes.
IMG_3329_717.jpg
 
*Jay*

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Weather Man said:
EV's screw used car managers dry hard and long, again.

  • $69,012 for a brand-new Fisker Ocean in January 2024.
  • Fisker has since drastically lowered the price of the Ocean, and the company is experiencing mega financial woes.
IMG_3329_717.jpg
Click to expand...
Thats how much they will pay to purchase, what they will actually be able to sell it for is what Im curious about.
 
Weather Man

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*Jay* said:
Thats how much they will pay to purchase, what they will actually be able to sell it for is what Im curious about.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the ones they have sitting on the lot that are going to be eaten like a turd with no Tabasco sauce.
 
black92

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*Jay* said:
Thats how much they will pay to purchase, what they will actually be able to sell it for is what Im curious about.
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After overvaluing cars the last two years and purchasing them, I believe they are now undervaluing them now so they can list them much higher.
 
Weather Man

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Tesla sitting on serious inventory, no wonder they started advertising. Dealers taking Tesla on trade better beware!

Electric vehicle stocks slide after Tesla deliveries stunner​

Apr. 02, 2024 9:56 AM ETTesla, Inc. (TSLA) StockF, GM, TM, WKHS, MVST, NKLA, NIO, HYLN, GOEV, RIVN, XPEV, LAZR, QS, HYZN, LCID, PSNY, VFS, ALLGBy: Clark Schultz, SA News Editor
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Stock Market Crash Chart

solarseven
Electric vehicle stocks went into reverse in early trading on Tuesday after Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) missed already beaten-down estimates with its Q1 production and deliveries report.
The electric vehicle giant announced on Tuesday that it delivered 386,810 vehicles in Q1 and produced 433,371 vehicles. The deliveries tally missed the consensus estimate that had already been slashed significantly over the last three weeks. Model 3/Y production was 412,376 units vs. 439,194 consensus. By comparison, Tesla delivered a total of 484,507 vehicles in Q4 and delivered 422,875 a year ago in Q1.
On Wall Street, Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives did not pull any punches in characterizing the quarter. "While we were anticipating a bad 1Q, this was an unmitigated disaster 1Q that is hard to explain away," he noted.
Ives unleashed: "We view this as a seminal moment in the Tesla story for Musk to either turn this around and reverse the black eye 1Q performance. Otherwise, some darker days could clearly be ahead that could disrupt the long-term Tesla narrative. While we remain bullish on the long term story given the prospects for growth and EV/FSD over the coming quarters, this was a train wreck into a brick wall quarter for Musk & Co. with our estimate that China was down at least 3% YoY."
Barclays also created some ripples in the EV sector after downgrading Nio (NIO) to an Underweight rating due to weak sales trends. "With limited new product launches in the pipeline planned for the rest of 2024, we see significant risks for NIO's ability to meet consensus estimates for the reminder of the year," warned analyst Jiong Shao. Barclays cut revenue estimates on Nio (NIO) for Q1, 2024, and 2025.
 
Weather Man

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Assessment of Run-Off Waters Resulting from Lithium-Ion Battery Fire-Fighting Operations
31 March 2024
As the use of Li-ion batteries is spreading, incidents in large energy storage systems (stationary storage containers, etc.) or in large-scale cell and battery storages (warehouses, recyclers, etc.), often leading to fire, are occurring on a regular basis. Water remains one of the most efficient fire extinguishing agents for tackling such battery incidents, and large quantities are usually necessary. Since batteries contain various potentially harmful components (metals and their oxides or salts, solvents, etc.) and thermal-runaway-induced battery incidents are accompanied by complex and potentially multistage fume emissions (containing both gas and particles), the potential impact of fire run-off waters on the environment should be considered and assessed carefully. The tests presented in this paper focus on analyzing the composition of run-off waters used to spray NMC Li-ion modules under thermal runaway. It highlights that waters used for firefighting are susceptible to containing many metals, including Ni, Mn, Co, Li and Al, mixed with other carbonaceous species (soot, tarballs) and sometimes undecomposed solvents used in the electrolyte. Extrapolation of pollutant concentrations compared with PNEC values showed that, for large-scale incidents, run-off water could be potentially hazardous to the environment.
The tests presented in this paper highlight that waters used for firefighting on NMC Li-ion batteries are susceptible to containing many metals, including Ni, Mn, Co, Li and Al. Those metals are mixed with other carbonaceous species (soots, tarballs). It is also important to note that particles present in the water can be nanometric or in the form of nanostructured clusters. In addition to the solid contaminants, liquid compounds can be present, especially organic carbonates coming from the electrolyte (EC and EMC in this case) and also gaseous species such as PAH. A comparison with PNEC values showed that this water could be potentially hazardous to the environment, depending on the actual situation encountered in the case of thermal runaway propagation with a Li-ion battery-based system.
These tests also make it possible to identify some trends concerning the reaction scenario. By comparing the two extinguishing operations on the prismatic cells, one can see that when the fire is developed, the water is much more concentrated in PAH and cathode metals (Ni, Mn, Co). On the other hand, the concentrations of elements coming from the liquid electrolyte (typically Li, P, F), more easily accessible, are present in equivalent quantities.
Assessment of Run-Off Waters Resulting from Lithium-Ion Battery Fire-Fighting Operations
 
kaz109

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Weather Man said:
Tesla sitting on serious inventory, no wonder they started advertising. Dealers taking Tesla on trade better beware!

Electric vehicle stocks slide after Tesla deliveries stunner​

Apr. 02, 2024 9:56 AM ETTesla, Inc. (TSLA) StockF, GM, TM, WKHS, MVST, NKLA, NIO, HYLN, GOEV, RIVN, XPEV, LAZR, QS, HYZN, LCID, PSNY, VFS, ALLGBy: Clark Schultz, SA News Editor
5
Share
Save
Comments
(23)
Stock Market Crash Chart

solarseven
Electric vehicle stocks went into reverse in early trading on Tuesday after Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) missed already beaten-down estimates with its Q1 production and deliveries report.
The electric vehicle giant announced on Tuesday that it delivered 386,810 vehicles in Q1 and produced 433,371 vehicles. The deliveries tally missed the consensus estimate that had already been slashed significantly over the last three weeks. Model 3/Y production was 412,376 units vs. 439,194 consensus. By comparison, Tesla delivered a total of 484,507 vehicles in Q4 and delivered 422,875 a year ago in Q1.
On Wall Street, Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives did not pull any punches in characterizing the quarter. "While we were anticipating a bad 1Q, this was an unmitigated disaster 1Q that is hard to explain away," he noted.
Ives unleashed: "We view this as a seminal moment in the Tesla story for Musk to either turn this around and reverse the black eye 1Q performance. Otherwise, some darker days could clearly be ahead that could disrupt the long-term Tesla narrative. While we remain bullish on the long term story given the prospects for growth and EV/FSD over the coming quarters, this was a train wreck into a brick wall quarter for Musk & Co. with our estimate that China was down at least 3% YoY."
Barclays also created some ripples in the EV sector after downgrading Nio (NIO) to an Underweight rating due to weak sales trends. "With limited new product launches in the pipeline planned for the rest of 2024, we see significant risks for NIO's ability to meet consensus estimates for the reminder of the year," warned analyst Jiong Shao. Barclays cut revenue estimates on Nio (NIO) for Q1, 2024, and 2025.
Click to expand...
Yes Tesla is working hard trying to sell Vehicles, since I am on the wait list for a CT they have been blowing me up through emails trying to get me into a S or X model until my CT order is filled and they are offering pretty crazy pricing… in this market it is giving it away prices.

I think the decline in sales is due to a multitude of things

1. Tesla is no longer the the sole option for an EV as every brand has one now.

2. Ppl are realizing having an EV as an only car isn’t a good option and with the prices of everything you notice more and more ppl haven’t a single car home. The ppl buying EVs as an only car thinking it’s cheaper are realizing it’s not.

3. The ppl outside of California realize EVs ain’t the way to go as we have seen the harsher winter’s drastically affects EVs wether it is charging or just range.
 
Weather Man

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kaz109 said:
Yes Tesla is working hard trying to sell Vehicles, since I am on the wait list for a CT they have been blowing me up through emails trying to get me into a S or X model until my CT order is filled and they are offering pretty crazy pricing… in this market it is giving it away prices.

I think the decline in sales is due to a multitude of things

1. Tesla is no longer the the sole option for an EV as every brand has one now.

2. Ppl are realizing having an EV as an only car isn’t a good option and with the prices of everything you notice more and more ppl haven’t a single car home. The ppl buying EVs as an only car thinking it’s cheaper are realizing it’s not.

3. The ppl outside of California realize EVs ain’t the way to go as we have seen the harsher winter’s drastically affects EVs wether it is charging or just range.
Click to expand...

Tsunami of competition and high interest rates. Welcome to the real world of selling cars Tesla. Only they have no dealer network, their maintenance network is a joke and build quality is crap. When you're the only EV in town, you can get away with a lot of shit that comes home to roost and the **** is crowing loud and clear. We won't even talk about the people who aren't enamored with parking a fuel vapor lithium carbon bomb in their garage. For 3 days during a not really bad cold spell, people got to watch parking lots full of bricked EV's get towed away one by one in Chicago. How could any potential Northern tier buyer think I want some of that?
 
kaz109

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Weather Man said:
Tsunami of competition and high interest rates. Welcome to the real world of selling cars Tesla. Only they have no dealer network, their maintenance network is a joke and build quality is crap. When you're the only EV in town, you can get away with a lot of shit that comes home to roost and the **** is crowing loud and clear. We won't even talk about the people who aren't enamored with parking a fuel vapor lithium carbon bomb in their garage. For 3 days during a not really bad cold spell, people got to watch parking lots full of bricked EV's get towed away one by one in Chicago. How could any potential Northern tier buyer think I want some of that?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t call that “ not very bad” cold spell as most outlets were saying to was unheard of but then again I’m in California so I’m ready not qualified to talk about bad weather lol
 

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