The new 5.0 4 valve ford will force us to uprgade our 99-01 powerplants!

[mrmustangman357]

Hopefully they put good internals in this car

THE LS series motor is lauded by so many individuals because you can pop a hot cam and exhaust in it and get +60 hp. The 4v and 3v motors are more expensive and harder to mod. That's it.


Although its hard to argue with a 10 year old LS platform that makes 480 hp and gets 28 mpg. Those chevy motors get great fuel economy. Why cant ford do that?

 

[ttbit]

Ford has always made quality mustangs(Forget 96-98, and 99 cobra)

Way to make friends and influence people.

 

[boduke0220]

The mod motor helped for save money, which is why the didnt need a bail out. correct?

 

[Quadcammer]

The mod motor helped for save money, which is why the didnt need a bail out. correct?

kind of, but not really. The 5.0 was used in a ton of cars as well, as is the lsx series.

Ford levered the hell out of themselves when they still could easily. That is why they didn't need a bailout. When they have to roll their debt shortly, they may run into some trouble.

 

[olgreydog7]

Plus, they sold off alot of the subsidiares, like Jag, Land Rover, Aston Martin, and I think Volvo.

 

[02SVTV6]

I'm upgrading...to a 5.4 4V...they can have that 5.0 all they want.

 

[na svt]

If all you do is take a stock New 5.0 engine and punch it out some how to meet their 5.7 ls, the 5.7 mod motor will stomp that chevy all over. ford is very advanced with their engine's and the ONLY thing that is power limiting facotr is the displacement. i mean look at this, ours are 4.6dohc 320hp, now 5.0dohc 412hp, 5.7.....imagine the power.

You are very correct, the ONLY thing that limits mod motor power is displacement.

The 2011 5.0 engine will not see 5.7 liters of displacement. It can be stroked to get another 24 (or more) cubes but the bore cannot be increased in diameter much since the bore spacing is the same as our current mod motors. In order to get a 5.7 (in it's case, a 5.8) you have go with a big bore 5.4 and that adds about $5k in block and machine work. Then if you go with BB 5.4 you should also go with GT heads and the dollars keep leaving your wallet.

 

[IUP99snake]

You are very correct, the ONLY thing that limits mod motor power is displacement.

The 2011 5.0 engine will not see 5.7 liters of displacement. It can be stroked to get another 24 (or more) cubes but the bore cannot be increased in diameter much since the bore spacing is the same as our current mod motors. In order to get a 5.7 (in it's case, a 5.8) you have go with a big bore 5.4 and that adds about $5k in block and machine work. Then if you go with BB 5.4 you should also go with GT heads and the dollars keep leaving your wallet.

You bring up a good point about the bore spacing of the 4.6 (and the 5.0) mod motors. As you mentioned, the only way to increase displacement is to increase the stroke. There are now quite a few stroker cranks available for the 4.6 (which will also fit in the Boss 5.0 block). Are the earlier 4.6/stroker cranks interchangeable with the coyote blocks? If so, that's cool.

Once these cars flood the market, it'll be relatively cheap to obtain a motor, rebuild it with forged internals and a stroker crank and have at it with a 326 (ish) aluminum 4V monster.

Homer

 

[na svt]

I've heard from a very reliable source that the heads and intakes are not interchangeable but I'm unsure about the cranks. However, someone will make a stroker crank for it very soon if they cannot be interchanged.

 

[mrmustangman357]

Powertrains - Automotive Engineering International Online


here is an engineering look at the 5.0

 

[CobraRed01]

Powertrains - Automotive Engineering International Online

here is an engineering look at the 5.0

Nice find. I've read in the other article that I posted about the special attention to oil flow under lateral acceleration. I always thought they should be testing for this...especially with the previous oil flow issues. Really good to hear.

I'm still wondering how well this motor will take boost... with so little gasket space between the maxed bores. Article says F/I is in the plans.

 

[mustang1990]

ford all the way! period! quite hating!

now back to the thread

 

[IUP99snake]

Powertrains - Automotive Engineering International Online


here is an engineering look at the 5.0

Wow, in that picture, the 5.0 looks a lot like an LS1 with its plastic "valve cover covers".

 

[no cigar]

Birdman,

You are in Victoria, no? Take a quick <2hr road trip down to Corpus and find some pushrods to tangle with in your 5.4. They'll get a kick out of smacking you around knowing how much $$$ you have in it and the amount of talking you do about the supremacy of DOHC etc.... Too bad you can't take the other member of the botique high roller engine club, olgreydog with you.

 

[na svt]

Birdman,

You are in Victoria, no? Take a quick <2hr road trip down to Corpus and find some pushrods to tangle with in your 5.4. They'll get a kick out of smacking you around knowing how much $$$ you have in it and the amount of talking you do about the supremacy of DOHC etc.... Too bad you can't take the other member of the botique high roller engine club, olgreydog with you.

I think he's back in Florida.

 

[E. Green Cobra]

Birdman,

You are in Victoria, no? Take a quick <2hr road trip down to Corpus and find some pushrods to tangle with in your 5.4. They'll get a kick out of smacking you around knowing how much $$$ you have in it and the amount of talking you do about the supremacy of DOHC etc.... Too bad you can't take the other member of the botique high roller engine club, olgreydog with you.

So what? Will Birdman get a kick out of the fact his car is squeak free and has the road manners of a OEM factory car with it's 400/400 ? Or the fact that his car is silky smooth up to 7000rpm?

Obviously he didn't build the car to show case the max capabilities of the mod motor. He built what the average person would say is a fine street motor. Good manners, impressive power.

Not some racy, loud on the edge horsepower champ.

An LSX with a .600 lift cam, and H/I might make more power, but how are it's street manners? Not everyone cares about XXXX horsepower.

Ask the pushrod guys in F/s how they feel about the mod motor after the last few years.

And btw there's at least one street driven mod motor that makes 1400rwhp. So it's not like the power ain't there.

 

[no cigar]

So what? Will Birdman get a kick out of the fact his car is squeak free and has the road manners of a OEM factory car with it's 400/400 ? Or the fact that his car is silky smooth up to 7000rpm?

Obviously he didn't build the car to show case the max capabilities of the mod motor. He built what the average person would say is a fine street motor. Good manners, impressive power.

Not some racy, loud on the edge horsepower champ.

An LSX with a .600 lift cam, and H/I might make more power, but how are it's street manners? Not everyone cares about XXXX horsepower.

Ask the pushrod guys in F/s how they feel about the mod motor after the last few years.

And btw there's at least one street driven mod motor that makes 1400rwhp. So it's not like the power ain't there.

I'm not speaking as to his motives... I'm speaking as to his comments about Ford basically not having to worry in any way shape or form about power/displacement levels from "inferior" GM pushrod motors. And last I checked the newer vettes were pretty docile...

Oh thats right, I guess he plays by different sets of rules than the other 98% of people who put any sort of time or money into their cars...

Ford's power and displacements strategy
has worked itself out in the marketplace.
GM = FAIL
GM LOST big time with the clunky old NVH monster Camaros and Fireturds.
Bigger pushrod motors did not save those cars.
It didn't save Pontiac as a whole either.
Now, GM is going with the same old failed strategy AGAIN.
And again they will fail.

I don't go to the dragstrip much but I've never heard anyone use marketing strategy and financial viability as an excuse for inferiority. You can argue that GM has inferior business practices and failed from a financial standpoint all you want, just like a ricer can argue over and over about his VTEC and 'more better' engine. So what if (and I doubt it by how prevalent they are) the Camaro goes bust and they shut it down? It simply means the showroom fresh Mustangs will still be getting pestered by last years Camaro...

 

[E. Green Cobra]

You're comparing apples and oranges. OEM vs. Modded

From an OEM standpoint, the 315hp Gt was fine. The Camaro/Challenger are new entries, of course they're more powerful, (though not much faster.)

Ford doesn't care that some used car is faster. They also don't care that their product isn't as easily modded as brand X.

The vette? A great platform when you're looking at 45K and up vehicles. Is anyone surprised it beats out a mustang? Have you seen what it costs to modify? (relative to a mustang/camaro etc.)

You're always going to be able to have a fast heap. I'm sure a lot of F-bodies outrun the new camaros. Some people enjoy the refinement of new factory cars.

I'm not speaking as to his motives... I'm speaking as to his comments about Ford basically not having to worry in any way shape or form about power/displacement levels from "inferior" GM pushrod motors. And last I checked the newer vettes were pretty docile...

Oh thats right, I guess he plays by different sets of rules than the other 98% of people who put any sort of time or money into their cars...



I don't go to the dragstrip much but I've never heard anyone use marketing strategy and financial viability as an excuse for inferiority. You can argue that GM has inferior business practices and failed from a financial standpoint all you want, just like a ricer can argue over and over about his VTEC and 'more better' engine. So what if (and I doubt it by how prevalent they are) the Camaro goes bust and they shut it down? It simply means the showroom fresh Mustangs will still be getting pestered by last years Camaro...

 

[N/Angel]

Now if the mustang is such a mediocre car, how come the winning car at the Virginia city hill climb( a 3.5 mile road race on a twisty nevada public highway that attracts a lot of heavy hitting European machinery) last few years running has been a Mustang.?

So you sold your Mustang and bought a Porsche, well hats off to you.
As for me, I'm not interested in a Porsche, not even if some one wanted to swap may car for one. The cars that are on my list are the 2000R and 2010 GT500.:beer:

you keep talking about this wonder road race Mustang, how about posting some solid info about it? I would like to see details, engine setup, suspension details, rollcage, chassis stiffening details, wheels, tires and brakes used if I can beat european cars with it...

I live in Europe and there is no way a Mustang will ever beat a Porsche on a racetrack like Nürburgring or Hockenheimring or any track. I love my Stang and I'm trying my best at building it to somewhat being competible on those tracks but if I could I would trade it for a Porsche GT3 in a heartbeat

 

[birdman941]

I'm not speaking as to his motives... I'm speaking as to his comments about Ford basically not having to worry in any way shape or form about power/displacement levels from "inferior" GM pushrod motors. And last I checked the newer vettes were pretty docile...

Oh thats right, I guess he plays by different sets of rules than the other 98% of people who put any sort of time or money into their cars...



I don't go to the dragstrip much but I've never heard anyone use marketing strategy and financial viability as an excuse for inferiority. You can argue that GM has inferior business practices and failed from a financial standpoint all you want, just like a ricer can argue over and over about his VTEC and 'more better' engine. So what if (and I doubt it by how prevalent they are) the Camaro goes bust and they shut it down? It simply means the showroom fresh Mustangs will still be getting pestered by last years Camaro...

I did spend some funds on the entire car,
starting with a body only will do that.
What have you done for the Mustang community?
Dying to hear that one.
I, however, did NOT spend a crapload on the motor itself,
unless you consider I did not start with boneyard motor.
Every nut and bolt on it is brand new.
Basically it is 330 CID with 11:1, factory-ish intake,
ported heads, LT's and cams, yet it is near 400/400.
Al Papitto built the motor, as he is the best, period.
Seeing as how my setup is a relatively mild and new combination,
it would take a lot more to make that with a pushrod motor.
Let's see a 351 (larger CID) w/factory intake with compression, cam and LT's make that.
Sure it can be done, but it is still a dinosaur, and it is not new nor revolutionary.
GM LOST in the marketplace, and Ford won.
GM will lose again, as they are using the same failed market strategy.