The new 5.0 4 valve ford will force us to uprgade our 99-01 powerplants!

[na svt]

I, however, did NOT spend a crapload on the motor itself, unless you consider I did not start with boneyard motor.
Every nut and bolt on it is brand new. Basically it is 330 CID with 11:1, factory-ish intake, ported heads, LT's and cams, yet it is near 400/400.
Al Papitto built the motor, as he is the best, period. Seeing as how my setup is a relatively mild and new combination, it would take a lot more to make that with a pushrod motor. Let's see a 351 (larger CID) w/factory intake with compression, cam and LT's make that. Sure it can be done, but it is still a dinosaur, and it is not new nor revolutionary.

The overhead cam design is not a revolutionary idea as its been around for decades and just because pushrods have also been around for decades that doesn't mean they are dinosaurs and no longer a viable design.

My friends stock block 347ci LS1 with ported 5.3 heads, stock intake, aftermarket cam and it makes a lot more than your 5.4s 400rwhp and does so for far less $$ than what you have into your combo.

I very much like mod motors, but when a more powerful engine is offered in a smaller, lighter package it's hard to say it's not better.

 

[birdman941]

I am also wondering how much power the new 5.0 4V will gain with LT's and CAI.
Not much, as Ford has improved in both areas.
I am guessing some will be found in the tune and cam timing.

 

[98 N/A 4V]

The overhead cam design is not a revolutionary idea as its been around for decades and just because pushrods have also been around for decades that doesn't mean they are dinosaurs and no longer a viable design.

My friends stock block 347ci LS1 with ported 5.3 heads, stock intake, aftermarket cam and it makes a lot more than your 5.4s 400rwhp and does so for far less $$ than what you have into your combo.

I very much like mod motors, but when a more powerful engine is offered in a smaller, lighter package it's hard to say it's not better.

+1. I frequent LS1tech all the time and there are guys with just bolt-ons and a cam swap making over 410rwhp. I saw one that put down 456rwhp SAE. In the N/A world, cubes win hands down. Until Ford can match GM cubes for cubes, the LSX platform will reign supreme.

Now FI is another story.

-Mark

 

[birdman941]

HP per CID = efficiency.
Only technology gets you there.
GM is still making stuffing from stale bread,
and Ford is making french toast from fresh stuff.

 

[Venemous1]

blah blah blah blah blah this is ridiculous, 80% of these posts have nothing to do with the original topic of 99-01 cobra owners(which i am) needing to make sure we are ready to hand these new gt owners their asses. and i for one have some work to do to make sure its not close, andddddd im out

 

[birdman941]

blah blah blah blah blah this is ridiculous, 80% of these posts have nothing to do with the original topic of 99-01 cobra owners(which i am) needing to make sure we are ready to hand these new gt owners their asses. and i for one have some work to do to make sure its not close, andddddd im out

Well you have the handling portion all done.
The choices are out there to add power.

 

[IUP99snake]

If this thread were about whether or not Ford or GM was better, I'd give a rat's ass. GM isn't coming out with a new motor, but if they were, I'm sure there would be a thread about it. But this thread is about the new Ford motor. Therefore, I want to talk and read about the new Ford motor with other people who also want to talk about the new Ford motor. If you want to talk about the new Ford motor, I'm more than happy to hear what you have to say.

For those of you who want to continue talking about GM, I'm sure the people in the "bailout" forum will take you more seriously.

Homer

 

[tmhutch]

This new 5.0 is a work of art. This is my favorite part of the tech article:

Redline is now 7,000 RPM and according to Mike Harrison, “it’ll stay there all day, it LOVES it!” We were told that the 7,000 RPM limit was mandated for Ford's 150,000 mile durability schedule but that engine speeds of 8,000 RPM were possible without additional modifications.

Try doing that with a stock LSX engine. For all you guys talking about how great pushrod engines are, just move along. Old technology, new technology, blah blah blah. Bottom line, 4 valves are far superior to 2 valves for producing horsepower. Do I respect the LSX engine, hell ya! They're awesome. But the power producing technology of a two valve engine is vastly inferior to the 4 valve layout.

If the new 5.0 DOHC was sporting 6.2L it would be producing nearly 500 horsepower in mild mannered stock trim. But that's ONE BIG "IF".

Unfortunately for us DOHC fans, cubic inches rule and that's where Ford has FAILED.

If anybody's interested in the technical superiority of 4v combos, look up my "cam science 101" article and scroll down to the section entitled "Unique Ford DOHC Characteristics".

 

[D's01Snake]

this thread should be closed. Its lame.

 

[Quadcammer]

For those of you who want to continue talking about GM, I'm sure the people in the "bailout" forum will take you more seriously.

Homer

Like that has anything to do with the power producing possibilities of the lsx. I expected better from you. Ford simply had good timing with its debt financing or else it would have been in the same boat.

This new 5.0 is a work of art. This is my favorite part of the tech article:



Try doing that with a stock LSX engine. For all you guys talking about how great pushrod engines are, just move along. Old technology, new technology, blah blah blah. Bottom line, 4 valves are far superior to 2 valves for producing horsepower. Do I respect the LSX engine, hell ya! They're awesome. But the power producing technology of a two valve engine is vastly inferior to the 4 valve layout.

If the new 5.0 DOHC was sporting 6.2L it would be producing nearly 500 horsepower in mild mannered stock trim. But that's ONE BIG "IF".

Unfortunately for us DOHC fans, cubic inches rule and that's where Ford has FAILED.

If anybody's interested in the technical superiority of 4v combos, look up my "cam science 101" article and scroll down to the section entitled "Unique Ford DOHC Characteristics".

Wow, 8000rpm. Big deal. You can rev a honda engine to 9000rpm, but if it doesn't make any power up there then who cares?

4v vs 2v makes basically no difference if the airflow is similar. Engine=air pump=does not care how many valves you have. The lsx has huge ports, and uses its displacement to absolutely demolish the ford in low end torque and having a flat torque curve.

Vastly inferior? The lsx makes more power in stock form, modified form, boosted form, etc. its not even a comparison.

Obviously power goes up linearly with displacement, right tmhutch? I know you aren't this dumb.

The lsx will shit all over the 5.0 dohc, just like it always has.

 

[birdman941]

Always the polite, informative and insightful one..................... :shrug:

Personally, I have faith in Ford's engineers,
and now that Ford has a business wizard (Mulally Sp?),
and an automotive enthusiasts in charge (Bill Ford),
the automotive world is Ford's oyster.
Dearborn in back on track, hopefully to stay.

 

[mustangmanjeff]

They have 400 hp in a 4000lb car.

You have 300 in a 3600 lb car.

Longtube headers, powerpipe and a decent tune you equal.

Add 150 shot say C'ya

:nono::bs::lol:wow since when does a car that weighs 3,500-3,700lbs weigh "4,000lbs" haha the challenger,chargers and camaros are all the 3,800-4,200 lb pigs the mustang is 400hp and weighs 200-400lbs ligther then the camaro charger and challengers oke::thumbsup:

 

[birdman941]

Don;t forget the 2011 will have electric power steering.
Hopefully it works well, as it is less parasitic loss,
and goes straight to the wheels.
Lots of interesting stuff coming out of Dearborn.

 

[tmhutch]

Like that has anything to do with the power producing possibilities of the lsx. I expected better from you. Ford simply had good timing with its debt financing or else it would have been in the same boat.



4v vs 2v makes basically no difference if the airflow is similar.
Vastly inferior?

The lsx makes more power in stock form, modified form, boosted form, etc. its not even a comparison.

Obviously power goes up linearly with displacement, right tmhutch? I know you aren't this dumb.

The lsx will shit all over the 5.0 dohc, just like it always has.

The LSX's dominate by sheer cubic inches and I have no problem with that. I'm glad Ford is finally stepping up to the plate with the 440 ci capable Boss block, it's about time. But you couldnt be more wrong with this statment: "4v vs 2v makes basically no difference if the airflow is similar". There are huge differences that are determined by not only port velocity but what the port is doing at different stages of the lift cycle, especially low lift numbers under .200. Two ports can look the same on a flowbench and perform completely different. Take a read through the link I posted and you'll see what I'm talking about. Read the section comparing LSX's to DOHC's.

 

[birdman941]

The LSX's dominate by sheer cubic inches and I have no problem with that. I'm glad Ford is finally stepping up to the plate with the 440 ci capable Boss block, it's about time. But you couldnt be more wrong with this statment: "4v vs 2v makes basically no difference if the airflow is similar". There are huge differences that are determined by not only port velocity but what the port is doing at different stages of the lift cycle, especially low lift numbers under .200. Two ports can look the same on a flowbench and perform completely different. Take a read through the link I posted and you'll see what I'm talking about. Read the section comparing LSX's to DOHC's.

I read it and found it interesting.
Thanks for posting it Hutch.

 

[na svt]

If anybody's interested in the technical superiority of 4v combos, look up my "cam science 101" article and scroll down to the section entitled "Unique Ford DOHC Characteristics".

There is a problem with your write up, specifically the setion entitled "Unique Ford DOHC Characteristics." Those characteristics aren't unique to Ford, but are common to most 4v, 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines, both foreign and domestic.

This debate could go on and on forever and which one a person "thinks" is better is a matter of preference. However, the fact is that cubic inches rule in the n/a hp game and combined with the fact that it cost much more to make high n/a power in a modular than it does to make the same power with an archaic design pushrod engine from both Ford or Chevy.

The new 4v engine seems to be much better in power output and design, but as Birdman941 already mentioned, it will probably not respond to mods as the old 4v. The reason is that it' stock components are pretty damn good (intake, exhaust manifolds, etc). Basically, as far as bolt-ons go, it seems to be pretty much maxed out already.

 

[Quadcammer]

The LSX's dominate by sheer cubic inches and I have no problem with that. I'm glad Ford is finally stepping up to the plate with the 440 ci capable Boss block, it's about time. But you couldnt be more wrong with this statment: "4v vs 2v makes basically no difference if the airflow is similar". There are huge differences that are determined by not only port velocity but what the port is doing at different stages of the lift cycle, especially low lift numbers under .200. Two ports can look the same on a flowbench and perform completely different. Take a read through the link I posted and you'll see what I'm talking about. Read the section comparing LSX's to DOHC's.

yet amazingly, the lsx continues to dominate power production over every ford motor every produced.

 

[na svt]

A Deeper Look into Ford's New 5-Liter Powerplant - Stang TV Forums

http://www.stangtv.com/forum/gas-engines-future-not-rosy-but-6361.html

 

[na svt]

The LSX's dominate by sheer cubic inches and I have no problem with that. I'm glad Ford is finally stepping up to the plate with the 440 ci capable Boss block, it's about time.

What heads will fit this block?

 

[mustangmanjeff]

yet amazingly, the lsx continues to dominate power production over every ford motor every produced.

Not as much as they use to maybe from 1993-2002 because of the lt1 and ls1 but sorry to break the news to you , the 2003-2004 cobra supercharged saleens supercharged roush,shelbys and the new 2011 gt all makes 365-600hp just as much horsepower as any chevy, only the z06 and zr1 dominate ford, but thats with a $50-$100k price tag and because power to weight, the new camaro is a tank and the foxbody 5.0 outpowered the chevys irocz / z28fbodys of the 1980-1992 they only made 140-230hp and weighed more. Since 2002-2003 that has all changed ford just needs to make the mustang lighter like a corvette,they got the price tag cheaper then the chevy boys and power now under control they just need to make them light again. Look @ the numbers below since 2002-2003 ford has stepped it up alot I mean yes from 1993-2002 chevy shit all over fords cars (maily because people like to compare only the mustang v6 or gt or sometimes cobra to ss camaro or vette, now compare the cobra R or newer cobras shelbys or any saleen s/c and the mustang is faster) , and this isnt 1992-2002 anymore numbers below show how well ford does now fords lineupe is now 300-700hp anywhere from base v6 or gt ,shelby gt500, gt500 supersnake,saleen roush. and chevys lineup is also 300-638hp now, just the vette dominates because power to weight, the mustang now will shit all over the heavy slowmaro


just look below for the numbers from 1993+ for chevy vs ford since 2002-2003 to now ford is right there with chevys #'s





FORD:


1985-1995
5.0 302 n/a
175-245hp

1993-1995
5.0 liter n/a
GT=205,215,225hp
cobra/cobra R=235,240,245hp

1995cobra R
5.8 liter n/a
300hp


1994-1998
saleen s-351
5.8 n/a
300-380hp

1994-1998 s-351s/c
5.8 s/c
495hp

1996-1998 GT
4.6 n/a
GT= 215HP,225HP

1996-1998 cobra
4.6 n/a
305hp

1999-2004
Mustang GT
4.6 n/a
260hp

2001 bullit
mustang (gt)
4.6 n/a
=265-275hp

2000 cobra R
5.4 n/a
385hp


1999-2001
cobra
4.6 n/a
320hp


2003-2004
mach 1
4.6 n/a
305hp

2003-2004
saleen
4.6 s/c
375hp

2003-2004 cobra
4.6 s/c
390hp

2005+
ford GT
5.4 s/c
550hp

2005-2010 GT
4.6 n/a
300-325hp

2010 mustang gt 5.0
base v8 car ($28,000-$30k)
412 hp
5.0 liters
3500-3600lbs


2007-2010
shelby mustang gt500
5.4 s/c
500-540hp


2008-2010
shelby gt500 super snake
5.4 s/c
625-725hp





Chevy/pontiac/gm:


1980-1992
camaro z28/pontiac/irocz
5.0 305 tpi
140-175hp

5.7 liter
175-230hp


1993-1997
lt1 camaros/pontiac firebird/transam
z28/ss
5.7 liters
275hp-285hp

1998-2002 ls1 camaro z28/ss/pontiac firebird transam
5.7 liters
305hp-345hp


1997-2004 corvette c5/z06
5.7 liter ls1/ls6
ls1 5.7 liter= 345hp,350hp
5.7 liter ls6 z06= 385hp,405hp

2005+
chevy corvette
ls2 / ls3

6.0 liter or 6.2 liter

6.0 ls2= 400hp
6.2 ls3= 430,436hp


2010+
camaro ss v8
6.2 liter
426hp


2005 pontiac gto
5.7 liter ls1 or ls2
350hp

2006
ls2 gto
6.0 liters
400hp

2009+
ls3 vette
6.2 liters
430-436hp

2006+
ls7 vette
7.0 liter
505hp

2009+
zr1 vette
6.2 s/c
636hp





DODGE:

dodge hemi 5.7 or 6.1 liter

hemi charger r/t

5.7 liter
340hp,368hp

charger srt8
6.1 liter
425hp

challenger R/T
5.7 liter hemi
376hp

challenger srt8
6.1 liter
426hp

Sum it up:

FORD:

5.0 302 pushrod,5.8pushrod, 5.8 pushrod s/c 4.6 mod,4.6 s/c mod 5.4 mod, 5.4 s/c mod=
Horsepower anywhere from of 175-725hp

chevy:

5.0 305,5.7 lt1,5.7ls1,5.7 ls6,6.0 ls2,6.2 ls3,7.0ls7,6.2 s/c ls9=
Horsepower anywhere from 175hp-638hp


The numbers are actually pretty close because ford is smart and has many more models in there lineup to choose from which is why mustangs outsell chevy corvettes and camaros