Got my Snake Bite today. ( Not a joke thread)

[slowmoving1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but different cars react differently to different weather conditions. LSx motors like heat. Terminator's don't. NA vs FI in hot vs cold.

I don't believe there is a universal math problem that can account for that.

No doubt if you make 500whp on a hot day at a high elevation the SAE numbers will be higher once the numbers are plugged into that, but if the car functions better in cold weather then the math problem can't necessarily account for that.

An example of this would be people at high elevation making less SAE power than people at low elevation with similar mods. The math accounts for the air density and heat and all that, but it can't account for the fact that some cars function better in low temp conditions.

also s/c car make more boost in cold weather vs hot
so like I said a few post ago a car in 50 deg weather will make more power on dyno than the same car in 90 deg heat. due to the density of the air = more boost.
so cooler air will make more power on same dyno due to the boost increase in good weather condtions.

I will put this to the test in a month or so.
I should see 1-2 psi increase in great weather condtions
correct me if i'm wrong

 

[IronTerp]

good luck with your motor, the eaton is not a special case, if any thing twinscrew would be more timing over an eaton if every thing were equal.

I run 17 with my whipple, street and n20

96stanggt you are running more boost than me.....

Sorry Yellow, but you don't know what you're talking about in this case. A twin screw is going to produce approximately 100 more RWHP at a given boost level over an Eaton. That's significant more air and fuel, which means significantly more heat. And heat is the enemy. Us Eaton guys can get away with a lot more advance timing than the twin screw guys for this very reason.

We've been running 21 to 23 degrees of timing on 93 octane for 7 years with minimal risk. To infer that this is dangerous to the motor is uninformed. Twin screw??? Little different parameters.....And, a lot more engine failures......

Oh, and I've been running 16+ lbs of boost for 4 years now, with the last 2 years being at 17.5 to 18 lbs, (2.90/6 lb combo).

 

[yellow03cobra]

I again find confusion in your post, it makes more power because it is a more effieceint blower. If you are making 17lbs whether it be eaton or twin screw you are pushing an amount of air through that would equal that resistance. You would have different blower rpms and pulley sizes and exhaust combos but air flow I'm just not seeing it. Really, which one is making more heat at equal boost?

 

[96stanggt]

that maybe what you see because of your exhaust combo and a crappy gauge but that's what a 7lb upper and 4lb lower. That's pullied for 19lbs of boost.

I'd love to know what your iat's and what your logged timing is.

What a lower pulley is "rated" for is very seldomly seen, in fact more often that not more like half of what they are "rated" for. I might see 1-2lbs less than average because of headers and no cats, but that's one of the benefits of those mods. My boost readings off a properly calibrated stock gauge w/ overlay, which correlates with my Aeroforce gauge which reads off the OBDII along with several different dynos.

My IAT's are typically right around ambient air temperature and IAT2's tend to stay between 25*-30* higher than IAT temps. Logged timing is what my tune is commanding as I never see charge temps go over 150*.

What Dwight is pointing out is that typically TS cars actually produce more heat thus run less timing than Eaton cars. TS blowers compress the air which means more friction and heat, where a roots blower "paddles" the air. While less effecient and not producing as much power as a TS blower, the roots blowers won't produce as much heat.

 

[RussZTT]

I see 16lbs of boost on average, 17lbs on a cool night. 23* max timing on motor, 17* max on N20. Do a little searching 21*-23* is very common on Eaton cars, plenty safe.

Yes, that timing is fine. I ran 21* on my non ported one just fine along with hundreds of others.

 

[TRBO VNM]

see yellow, are you starting to see what I was talking about? 19 degrees on an eaton is pretty damn conservative. I ran 19 on my street tune because my personal preference was extra extra safe. my race tune was 23*, while some run that on 93 octane, I didn't. I ran cam2 or c16 with the 23* tune.

but as you can see, there are people running that kind of timing and have been for many yrs. and there are a lot more out there.

your preference may be different and obviously is.

 

[yellow03cobra]

see yellow, are you starting to see what I was talking about? 19 degrees on an eaton is pretty damn conservative. I ran 19 on my street tune because my personal preference was extra extra safe. my race tune was 23*, while some run that on 93 octane, I didn't. I ran cam2 or c16 with the 23* tune.

but as you can see, there are people running that kind of timing and have been for many yrs. and there are a lot more out there.

your preference may be different and obviously is.

I was never tuned at 23 degrees on my 2.80 pulley, cai, tune, catback eaton on 93. Nobody else in my area is either all with different tuners. I'm sure I had 21-22. Though it was years ago. It just doesn't make sense how some of you are adding 6 more pounds of boost to that on a lot of timing. Is it really worth if too sqeeze every last drop out of that eaton at what cost. Maybe this is the real reason that some of you are losing motors on high speed runs. Not enough safety. You are right turbo venom, it's not me and I make plenty power without it.

 

[TRBO VNM]

yeah, I have 19 degrees right now and I will be using the same tune for street and race. only difference will be the amount of boost and octane I use for each.

sorry, little OT. hopefully the OP can get some more info on his setup and get back on the dyno with a good clutch to see what the snakebite can do.

 

[Quicktime_GT]

In the guys defense a lot of the KOS cars were making less horsepower on the dyno at nmra than what they typically make.

 

[IronTerp]

I again find confusion in your post, it makes more power because it is a more effieceint blower. If you are making 17lbs whether it be eaton or twin screw you are pushing an amount of air through that would equal that resistance. You would have different blower rpms and pulley sizes and exhaust combos but air flow I'm just not seeing it. Really, which one is making more heat at equal boost?

Shouldn't be any confusion. :shrug: Why does a twin screw produce more power than a roots? It literally puts more air into the combustion chamber. More air equals more fuel. More fuel means a bigger explosion upon combustion, which means the piston is being pushed down the bore at a faster speed and thus the crank is turning faster, etc, etc. Bigger explosion = more heat.

And I don't know what's happening out in Iowa, but the Eaton folks here on the East Coast, are not blowing their motors running 21-23 degrees of timing on 93 octane.

 

[03cobra#694]

23* here on 93 w/a 2.76'' upper,11.8 a/f,zero issues.

 

[St_Evo]

So for those of us that have the typical mods such as 2.76 pulley, CAI, and O/R midpipe what would be the best way to go other than a TS? Stage 5 port or Snakebite port? It seems to me like the typical $795 port is the way to go unless your ready to put the money into a TS..

 

[96stanggt]

So for those of us that have the typical mods such as 2.76 pulley, CAI, and O/R midpipe what would be the best way to go other than a TS? Stage 5 port or Snakebite port? It seems to me like the typical $795 port is the way to go unless your ready to put the money into a TS..

Didn't you post this earlier this morning?

I called him today and he talked with me for about 15-20 minutes. That's pretty good service for even having my business yet... which he will BTW.

 

[dynobobstieg]

I will probably go ahead and ship my Eaton out to have this done. For the guys out there that have low mileage Cobra's that are wanting to be around 500whp and keep a somewhat stock appearance it seems like it would be a great choice.

My only question is.. If I am already running a 2.76 upper wouldn't a stage 5 port benefit me almost just as much as paying the extra for the Snakebite and bumping up to a bigger upper pulley?

This eliminates belt slip and boost fade and produces more peak torque as well as quicker boost rise and more power under the curve where drive 99% of the time.
Thanks
Stiegemeier :burnout:
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[yellow03cobra]

Shouldn't be any confusion. :shrug: Why does a twin screw produce more power than a roots? It literally puts more air into the combustion chamber. More air equals more fuel. More fuel means a bigger explosion upon combustion, which means the piston is being pushed down the bore at a faster speed and thus the crank is turning faster, etc, etc. Bigger explosion = more heat.

And I don't know what's happening out in Iowa, but the Eaton folks here on the East Coast, are not blowing their motors running 21-23 degrees of timing on 93 octane.

sorry but you really don't know what you are talking about, a twin screw is not pushing more air at any given amount of boost, if it were it would simply be creating more boost and it would not be equal. That's why you have different pulley sizes to reach a certain amount of boost on any of the blowers. Do you understand how boost is measured? Boost is boost is boost is boost, no matter what it comes from.

Boost is created at the point when the supercharger's internal impeller pushes enough air through the blower to overcome the vaccuum force naturally created by the engine's air intake, so air is being forced, rather than pulled, into the air intake. Boost is measured in pounds per square inch, or psi. More boost equates to a more dense air charge into the engine's combustion chamber, which allows the engine to burn more air and fuel and create more horsepower.

 

[Rice Eatr]

sorry but you really don't know what you are talking about, a twin screw is not pushing more air at any given amount of boost, if it were it would simply be creating more boost and it would not be equal. That's why you have different pulley sizes to reach a certain amount of boost on any of the blowers. Do you understand how boost is measured? Boost is boost is boost is boost, no matter what it comes from.

Boost is created at the point when the supercharger's internal impeller pushes enough air through the blower to overcome the vaccuum force naturally created by the engine's air intake, so air is being forced, rather than pulled, into the air intake. Boost is measured in pounds per square inch, or psi. More boost equates to a more dense air charge into the engine's combustion chamber, which allows the engine to burn more air and fuel and create more horsepower.

Please reference 96stanggt quote:

TS blowers compress the air which means more friction and heat, where a roots blower "paddles" the air. While less effecient and not producing as much power as a TS blower, the roots blowers won't produce as much heat.

On a side note:

This eliminates belt slip and boost fade and produces more peak torque as well as quicker boost rise and more power under the curve where drive 99% of the time.

Eliminates boost fade :lol1::lol1:

 

[yellow03cobra]

to me that explains why it is more effiecient not how the action creates heat, the end result is a certain psi with either method, which is certain compression. When you increase it's efficiency it should actually be producing less heat. Why is there a reduction in iat's on a ported eaton, you haven't changed the method? You are creating more heat as the blower moved out of it's efficiency range and it has to work harder to create a certain psi. The reason why stepping up to a bigger blower also reduces iat's and makes more power at certain psi's. Which is going to make more power at 25psi a 2.3 or a 3.4? It's still 25psi either way.

As to timing I follow this and it is not blower specific. One octane per timing per lb of boost. If you raise the supercharger one pound you should lower timing one degree or add 1 octane. Some of you are just simply using to much for my taste and what ever you want to do is fine, not my motor.

What you are pullied for:

93 Octane Pump
17 lbs - 20 degrees
19 lbs - (not generally recommended; although *many* run 16 to 18 degrees without issues)
21 lbs - not recommended

98 octane
17 lbs - recommend 96 octane.
19 lbs - 23 degrees
21 lbs - 21
22 lbs - 20

104 octane
17 lbs - too much octane; would require more than MBT spark to keep power from being hindered.
19 lbs - too much octane; would require more than MBT spark to keep power from being hindered.
21 lbs - 23 degrees (recommend 101 octane)
22 lbs - 23 degrees (recommend 102+ octane)

 

[TRBO VNM]

yellow03cobra, do you tune?

 

[yellow03cobra]

yellow03cobra, do you tune?

my own car, and I'm only marginally good at it, still new. Those were rwtd's recommendations on modularfords. Believe it or not their current recommendations are actually even safer, but I like this for a general idea of what to go by. I run my rwtd tune most of the time as I learn. Still have to get my wideband installed, one of the reasons I've been on a lot of dynos, that and various tune tweeks throughout the years.

 

[St_Evo]

Didn't you post this earlier this morning?

I posted something similar to it and didn't get a good response. Maybe since your more experienced you will have an educated answer to this question.

This eliminates belt slip and boost fade and produces more peak torque as well as quicker boost rise and more power under the curve where drive 99% of the time.
Thanks
Stiegemeier

Makes sense. Thanks for your reply. I can't wait to see the #'s that Chad will be able to put down with it!