New study from Amsoil

[UnleashedBeast]

This is also an interesting read...many of your off the shelf oils have very low zinc content which is something I want in my car..for the price, it looks like valvoline vr1 might be a great option. Are there any negatives to this oil?

http://store.forcedperformance.net/...Performance Recommendations for Motor Oil.pdf

High ZDDP is no longer the silver bullet to minimize engine wear. Perhaps in extreme cases, but not in most modern street cars where high pressure metal to metal contact isn't present. I have tested low and high ZDDP lubricants in my GT500 @ 650+ rwhp, engine wear was the same with both.

In turbo applications, due to high heat, this can be a different story. I've seen this article before, always interesting. Mobil 1 formulation that began this quest was the newer "cheaper" base oils.

 

[01cobravortech]

Let's remember that this is conclusive for base Royal Purple only. HPS and XPR are excluded from this discussion. So far, I have only seen one UOA from HPS, which showed a high percentage of Shearing. However, the base formulation above didn't shear at all. I need more trends to evaluate HPS and XPR.

Let's not discredit Royal Purple formulations that still contain their proprietary Synerlec additive. The single UOA from Sid could be a fluke.

Ok thanks for the clarification. I thought that you were implying that the integrity for all their formulations now had to be brought into question.

 

[04SilverSerpent]

High ZDDP is no longer the silver bullet to minimize engine wear. Perhaps in extreme cases, but not in most modern street cars where high pressure metal to metal contact isn't present. I have tested low and high ZDDP lubricants in my GT500 @ 650+ rwhp, engine wear was the same with both.

In turbo applications, due to high heat, this can be a different story. I've seen this article before, always interesting. Mobil 1 formulation that began this quest was the newer "cheaper" base oils.

Thanks..I think I am going to use the VR1 since I have a turbo application making good power...obviously it can't hurt anything. I would be curious as to its content since it's not listed in that link of the oils they had results for (only valvoline synth was there).

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Thanks..I think I am going to use the VR1 since I have a turbo application making good power...obviously it can't hurt anything. I would be curious as to its content since it's not listed in that link of the oils they had results for (only valvoline synth was there).

If you want high ZDDP with a top tier base oil, I'd use Amsoil Dominator 10W-30. Had a friend use this in a 500 awhp Evo. He reported that his engine has never idled, driven smoother, or achieved better fuel efficiency in its life.

Always remember that VR1 is hydrocracked base oil, not a true synthetic.

 

[musclefan21]

Hey Unleashedbeast,

I saw that you recommended 5w20 for a stock daily driven car that is never raced.

Well, i have pullied cobra which will be a ported cobra in two weeks. i DD my car. For the most part i drive like a grandpa, but here and there i get on it just for heck of it. I do plan to race her at track when the temps go down a bit.

I wanna use 5W20, is that okay? I really dont want to put thick oil, i want something thin which will help that crank to rotate a little bit quicker.

Also which Amsoil do you recommend for my car for the best performance and protection. I know there are multiple different kinds of 5w20s.

Thanks

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Hey Unleashedbeast,

I saw that you recommended 5w20 for a stock daily driven car that is never raced.

Well, i have pullied cobra which will be a ported cobra in two weeks. i DD my car. For the most part i drive like a grandpa, but here and there i get on it just for heck of it. I do plan to race her at track when the temps go down a bit.

I wanna use 5W20, is that okay? I really dont want to put thick oil, i want something thin which will help that crank to rotate a little bit quicker.

Also which Amsoil do you recommend for my car for the best performance and protection. I know there are multiple different kinds of 5w20s.

Thanks

Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20

What state do you live in?

 

[musclefan21]

Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20

What state do you live in?

IL

I was going to buy royal purple 5w20 but honestly this dog fight makes me want to get amsoil now. While I respect jimmy a lot and a great guy, I just wish he put up a better fight. It appears amsoil maybe better for my motor afterall...

Can you help me with 6 quarts? Maybe better deal than over 10 bucks a quart?

Last time I changed my oil, I put 7 qrts on. That's too much, my cobra did very well with 6 qrts in the past.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Can you help me with 6 quarts? Maybe better deal than over 10 bucks a quart?

Everyone can buy this formulation @ $7.85 per quart. Simply sign up as a Preferred Customer to save 25% on everything.

 

[01cobravortech]

If you want high ZDDP with a top tier base oil, I'd use Amsoil Dominator 10W-30. Had a friend use this in a 500 awhp Evo. He reported that his engine has never idled, driven smoother, or achieved better fuel efficiency in its life.

Always remember that VR1 is hydrocracked base oil, not a true synthetic.

So Beast what's your opinion about running this Dominator 10W-30 in a Termiantor in the 500rwhp territory without cats, all year round? Or is this oil best utilized in a setup like that in the summer time?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

So Beast what's your opinion about running this Dominator 10W-30 in a Termiantor in the 500rwhp territory without cats, all year round? Or is this oil best utilized in a setup like that in the summer time?

It flows like a 5W at 32*F so year round use is fine.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

IL

I was going to buy royal purple 5w20 but honestly this dog fight makes me want to get amsoil now. While I respect jimmy a lot and a great guy, I just wish he put up a better fight. It appears amsoil maybe better for my motor afterall...

Can you help me with 6 quarts? Maybe better deal than over 10 bucks a quart?

Last time I changed my oil, I put 7 qrts on. That's too much, my cobra did very well with 6 qrts in the past.

Not put up a better fight?

Over what used oil analysis and bench tests done by who knows who?

Sorry nobody wins there.

If somebody wants to do some back to back DYNO testing of against Royal Purple HPS 5w30 or 5w20, that would have some value IMHO.

Maybe do a sequence of used oil analysis tests all done on the same RP HPS oil in the same car and see how it holds up compared to brand A of brand M.

Is anyone it this thread really still under factory warranty? The RP API/SAE street oil is intended for them. If you are past the warranty period you should step up to the HPS series oils.

Unless superior film strength doesn't matter.:shrug:

 

[1hot281]

Not put up a better fight?

Over what used oil analysis and bench tests done by who knows who?

Sorry nobody wins there.

If somebody wants to do some back to back DYNO testing of against Royal Purple HPS 5w30 or 5w20, that would have some value IMHO.

Maybe do a sequence of used oil analysis tests all done on the same RP HPS oil in the same car and see how it holds up compared to brand A of brand M.

Is anyone it this thread really still under factory warranty? The RP API/SAE street oil is intended for them. If you are past the warranty period you should step up to the HPS series oils.

Unless superior film strength doesn't matter.:shrug:

Jimmy,

I think for the most part, people in this thread are in agreement that HPS and XPR are great offerings from Royal Purple.

But what say you in regards to Unleashed's info, showing that RP is possibly now selling a Group III hydrocracked conventional "synthetic" as its API-approved line?

and while this thread has somewhat devolved into cheerleading/fanboyism and bashing, (which is to be expected in ANY motor oil related thread) I think it's likely that some people that have been swayed away from Royal Purple, not by competitors bashing, or UOA reports and/or bench tests, but by Royal Purple's own lack of transparency when it comes to MSDS and product specification sheets. As Unleashed said, it does appear as if RP has something to hide.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Most oil company's formulations are proprietary.
Isn't all this emphasis on components just a little bit misplaced?
I think it is, the bottom line is how the oils perform.

Do we call up Nitto and Goodyear and ask them how much carbon black or Aramid or steel they use in their tires?

No, no one does that, we just care how they hook, handle and last, and we don't really care how they do it or what they have to put in them to get the performance.

Due to the significant interaction of the additives in an oil they actually have far more impact on an oil's performance than base oils.

I think it is most unfortunate, because my hands really are tied.

If knowing the exact base oil content of a chemistry restricted warranty compliant oil is that important to some of these guys they should just buy from the companies that spill the beans for them. I think most of these guys are not even concerned about warranty compliance.

Trouble also s will that oil actually out perform a Royal Purple SAE/API oil when it is actually used in what it was designed for.

I personally doubt it.:shrug:

Oh well...

Jimmy,

I think for the most part, people in this thread are in agreement that HPS and XPR are great offerings from Royal Purple.

But what say you in regards to Unleashed's info, showing that RP is possibly now selling a Group III hydrocracked conventional "synthetic" as its API-approved line?

and while this thread has somewhat devolved into cheerleading/fanboyism and bashing, (which is to be expected in ANY motor oil related thread) I think it's likely that some people that have been swayed away from Royal Purple, not by competitors bashing, or UOA reports and/or bench tests, but by Royal Purple's own lack of transparency when it comes to MSDS and product specification sheets. As Unleashed said, it does appear as if RP has something to hide.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Actually Jimmy, it does make a difference. The retail price of RP base formulation is very misleading. A buyer would assume they are buying a premium base oil in the bottle, as it was in recent history. *during API SL days*

Also, despite the additive package used in the formulation, a cheaper base oil will never perform like a group IV or V. Things like frictional coefficient and efficiency easily come to mind.

No matter, the price doesn't compliment the finished product. Royal Purple is using deception and reputation history to increase profit margins. Castrol, Mobil 1, and other big oil companies did the same, so it's not uncommon.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Another RP base API SN formulation UOA (sample #2) taken from a 2013 Boss 302. Again, you can see in red the extremely low oxidation readings. No doubt that base RP is now a cheap petroleum base stock marketed as a full synthetic without the proprietary Synerlec additive. It's not worthy of a $9.xx price per quart retail price.

Sample #1 is Motorcraft 5W-50. Wear metal reduction between formulations is nothing to speak of. The initial fill was sample #1 and contained all wear metals from engine break in. RP is performing the follow up flush fill.

 

[RedRocketMike]

Unleashed, I think this is putting Jimmy in a very awkward position. He can't acknowledge his employer doing something unethical without risking his job.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Unleashed, I think this is putting Jimmy in a very awkward position. He can't acknowledge his employer doing something unethical without risking his job.

I would never ask that of him, as you are correct. The leaking of proprietary information would result in termination, possibly a civil law suit. I say this to everyone, please, never interpret my posts as putting Jimmy "on the spot" per say. I respect him on and off the forums equally. In his situation, silence would be my only reply.

With that being said, there is no need for anyone to admit anything publicly. The numbers have already revealed the truth.

 

[1hot281]

Taking the light of Royal Purple for the moment, could we take a look at this again?

PQI America - Synthetic testing

So, would it be safe to say, based on the numbers, that Pennzoil Ultra is clearly the best OTC oil you can get, and that surprisingly Quaker State Ultimate would be number 2? Quaker State?

I mean, it doesn't have the highest TBN... but solid cSt@100*C, high VI, and sub-9 NOACK... plus reasonably decent zinc, phos, and moly.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I've never given Quaker State Ultimate a solid look, but it does appear to be a good OTC choice doesn't it. Shocking!

Hands down, Ultra is the OTC winner.

 

[SID297]

Ultra seems to be becoming tougher to find around here.