New study from Amsoil

UnleashedBeast

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I prefer the Taxi company test they did in Vegas.

All lubricants were ran longer than Mobil 1's test, with better results and less money spent.
 

Jimmysidecarr

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Any chance we can see the raw data from those test before it was all converted into bar graphs?

Also is the info on the actual testing facility listed/available?

This test is also comparing Royal Purple SAE 5W-30 (part #01530, quart bottle) which is an API-SN licensed oil to Amsoil's Signature series oil which is not an API-SN licensed oil, so the Amsoil does not have to comply with the chemistry restrictions of that API-SN license.

They say "recommended for" but do not have the actual license. Shouldn't they have IMHO used their XL 5W-30 or their OE 5W-30 as they do have the actual licenses and do comply with the chemistry restrictions?
 

UnleashedBeast

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Jimmy,

I do not have hard data in spreadsheets, or in any other detailed methods. Sorry.

Simply because Amsoil chose not to pay the fees associated with the API SN licensing doesn't mean it wouldn't pass (or isn't constrained by API SN boundaries). Amsoil's signature series lubricant all have API SN levels of ZDDP and meet every other requirement of the API SN certification test. In fact, it exceeds all requirements.

Amsoil chose not to API certify their flagship lubricants for one reason, and one reason only. The API doesn't allow base stock swapping like they do with petroleum lubricants. If they are using a specific base stock from a specific supplier, and that supplier isn't able to meet the demand Amsoil is requesting, that means Amsoil is stuck not able to produce more lubricants until one or two events occur...

1. The supplier ramps up production and can meets Amsoil's requirements.
2. Amsoil chooses another supplier.

However, choosing another supplier means that Amsoil now has to re-certify their lubricant with the new base stock, despite it meeting the exact same specifications. The API doesn't allow a manufacturer to change "true" synthetic suppliers without paying the certification fees all over again, completing the testing cycle over again, and we are talking big money.

The API allows manufacturers to select different suppliers when it concerns petroleum base stocks, with minimal fees and registry. This shows extreme bias towards petroleum derived stock.

XL is petroleum/synthetic blend. OE is 100% petroleum group III. There is no fear of supply shortages with those lines, therefore...they are certified.

If the API changed the rules tomorrow, Signature Series would be certified like the rest.

I do agree that it wasn't a fair fight on Royal Purple's behalf, not due to Amsoil's lack of API certifications, however....let's face facts. The base line Royal Purple API SN leaves a lot to be desired. I've been watching the performance of it closely, and something isn't right. UOA results haven't performed as expected. This isn't a $9.xx bottle of lubricant. The new HPS formulation has shown elevated shearing percentages you would NEVER expect from a top tier base stock formulation. What's different about the new reformulation?
 
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UnleashedBeast

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I'd like to add more comments about this thread/article/test.

1. Pennzoil Ultra has really benefited from the swap to GTL base stocks. NOACK Volatility is better (lower) than Amsoil. High five Pennzoil! I'm impressed.

2. Royal Purple is no longer my "go to" off the shelf lubricant it once was. Shockingly, Ultra has taken that crown away. Ultra has really impressed me lately.

3. I do not support the 4 ball wear testing performed by Amsoil for engine lubricants. That test was created for gear lubricants.

5. Amsoil's marketing may seem unbelievable to some, but they do not make up numbers. The article is truthful and all tests are performed without bias.

6. I do not fully agree with the cost per year quotes near the end. All of the other lubricants have been proven by UOA to be changed in one year intervals, and up to 10,000 miles with success.
 
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GotBoost?!

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I'm interested in this as I currently run the API version of RP and was thinking on trying out the HPS series.
The base line Royal Purple API SN leaves a lot to be desired. I've been watching the performance of it closely, and something isn't right. UOA results haven't performed as expected. This isn't a $9.xx bottle of lubricant. The new HPS formulation has shown elevated shearing percentages you would NEVER expect from a top tier base stock formulation. What's different about the new reformulation?
 
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UnleashedBeast

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I'm interested in this as I currently run the API version of RP and was thinking on trying out the HPS series.

I'd opt for their internet order HPS if I were to run Royal Purple in any performance car. So far, the base line lubricant hasn't shown me that it's worth the per quart price at retail auto parts stores. Pennzoil Ultra is a far better purchase in this price range (off the shelf). There is one questionable UOA that shows a very low viscosity used sample of HPS. Until we see a follow up UOA using the same lubricant (in the same engine), no conclusions can be made.

If I had to wait for a lubricant via UPS....I'd sign up as a preferred customer of Amsoil and buy at dealer cost.
 
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GotBoost?!

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I'd opt for their internet order HPS if I were to run Royal Purple in any performance car. So far, the base line lubricant hasn't shown me that it's worth the per quart price at retail auto parts stores. Pennzoil Ultra is a far better purchase in this price range (off the shelf). There is one questionable UOA that shows a very low viscosity used sample of HPS. Until we see a follow up UOA using the same lubricant (in the same engine), no conclusions can be made.

If I had to wait for a lubricant via UPS....I'd sign up as a preferred customer of Amsoil and buy at dealer cost.

I've read-heard on many occasions that RP oils shear,but I kept not wanting to hear about it as I've ran RP oil before :shrug: I hope Jimmy has some insight on this.
 

Jimmysidecarr

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Evidence of said shearing of HPS please. ::shrug:

An oils performance in an actual engine is a far better indicator of it's value, than a few used oil analysis results that were most likely not done in an appropriate sequence so as to observe a trend.

The average observed fuel economy savings with the RP API oils is enough to justify the cost alone.

Add the longer drain intervals possible and it just sweetens the deal.

If you are not concerned with factory warranty you don't need an API licensed oil, run the HPS and pick up the advantages of the Synerlec additive technology really high film strength and oxidation resistance.




Amsoil can't afford to license the signature series oils? Really?:shrug:
 

UnleashedBeast

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Evidence of said shearing of HPS please. ::shrug:

The only sample I have seen is from Sid's SVTP Mustang GT. I'm awaiting a UOA follow up to see if the viscosity is reduced the same again.

An oils performance in an actual engine is a far better indicator of it's value, than a few used oil analysis results that were most likely not done in an appropriate sequence so as to observe a trend.

Which is why it's good to run the same lubricant over a longer period of time to map trends.

The average observed fuel economy savings with the RP API oils is enough to justify the cost alone. Add the longer drain intervals possible and it just sweetens the deal.

I am currently testing a 1 year run of Royal Purple 5W-30 (non-HPS) lubricant in a 2004 Lincoln Town Car. Previously, a one year interval was run with Amsoil Signature Series ATM 10W-30. We can compare results on the completion of this run. Currently, the car has just under 100,000 miles on it. Annual mileage ranges from 10,000 to 12,000 miles.

Amsoil can't afford to license the signature series oils? Really?:shrug:

Sure they can, however....the API isn't playing the game fair when it comes to true synthetic base stocks. Now, I already know what you are thinking....

"Royal Purple 5W-30 (non-HPS) is a true synthetic base stock, and it's API SN certified. Therefore, Amsoil should be certified as well if it truly could pass the certification."

Well, that's where I will have to disagree with you. Royal Purple's reformulation is being exposed for what it is, another Mobil 1 and Castrol sell out. Do you recall when the big oil companies substituted hydrocracked petroleum in place of true PAO/Ester base stocks, then hid the change from their customers? I sure do, and have the smoking gun to prove it.

In the last test run from PQI America, many different off the shelf synthetics were tested. I was shocked when I viewed NOACK Volatility of 10.9% in Royal Purple's new API SN formulation. This is a dead giveaway that it's now using hydrocracked petroleum in the formulation, no longer the true PAO/Ester blend it was during the "old bottle" era.

PQI America - Synthetic testing


RPNOACK_zpsc7ca2443.jpg


In blue, you will see what a pure base stock NOACK should be, sub 8%. (Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 NOACK = 6.9%)
In red, you will see what a hydrocracked base stock NOACK will be, over 10%. (Royal Purple non-HPS NOACK = 10.9%)

There is a reason why Royal Purple has an API certified lubricant, because it's not 100% true synthetic as advertised. This allows RP to flex through the API's loophole for petroleum base stock swapping.

The new base line RP should have been compared to Amsoil 5W-30 XL (NOACK of 10.5%), because it's also is a hydrocracked/true synthetic blend. Even Amsoil OE 5W-30 (NOACK of 10.6%) is a direct comparison. This discovery also suggests to me why Royal Purple still hasn't added any technical document specifications for all of their lubricants on their website. Royal Purple has something to hide.

Jimmy, I have the highest respect for you, but let's call a duck "a duck".
 
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GotBoost?!

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OUCH :uh oh:

Thanks for this post UnleashedBeast

I'm seriously thinking on staying with Amsoil after seeing this.
 

97riocobra2

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It seems that Pennzoil Ultra is one of the best off the shelf oils. To bad it is no where to be found near me. Walmart is so hit and miss, I have found 5w-20, but no 5w-30 anywhere. I think Pep-boys had it for 9.98 a quart, I laughed and walked out.
 

UnleashedBeast

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It seems that Pennzoil Ultra is one of the best off the shelf oils. To bad it is no where to be found near me. Walmart is so hit and miss, I have found 5w-20, but no 5w-30 anywhere. I think Pep-boys had it for 9.98 a quart, I laughed and walked out.

I agree, Wal Mart is hit/miss on Ultra. In my city, where I did find it at WM, only quarts remained....and they were all marked down to clearance pricing (4.00-5.00 per quart). I bought the remaining 14 quarts I could find from 4 different stores.

Pep-Boys is asking a premium for Ultra. It's best to wait for one of their 5 quart + filter deals to buy it. With that being said, that's why Amsoil preferred customer pricing is the winning bet in lubricants. You always buy at dealer cost, never having to wait for a sale.

Amsoil Preferred Customer
 

GotBoost?!

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Jimmy,

Anything to add to what Unleashedbeast has put on the table? He brings up valueable information and quite frankly I'd like to hear your side of the story.

Thanks
 
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Wow this thread is pretty hardcore...

Very interesting stuff to chew on.

I'm personally trying RP Synchromax in my T56 and RP 75W-90 in the rear diff at the moment. Curious to see something measurable in terms of 'feel.' Replaced Amsoil fluids so we shall see...

Haven't switched to the RP oil for the motor though. Just can't get myself to pull that trigger...
 

598

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Great post. I just did a fluid change on my gear vendors overdrive for my 01 F350 7.3 E4OD They had previously recommended a GM and Chrysler lube as preferred, but very expensive. I called tech and the said they had monitored and approved Lucas 75-90 synthetic as well. This is 32 oz more or less that is used as a hydraulic I believe but takes a pounding. Any opinions as to how amsoil would compare?

Thanks ,

Steve
 

Jimmysidecarr

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Jimmy,

Anything to add to what Unleashedbeast has put on the table? He brings up valueable information and quite frankly I'd like to hear your side of the story.

Thanks

Yeah, we have never called our oil "100% synthetic" and we have never used the term "true synthetic" anywhere in our labeling or advertisements.
So this...
unleashedbeast said:
There is a reason why Royal Purple has an API certified lubricant, because it's not 100% true synthetic as advertised.
...is flat out false.

Do you actually need an API-SN warranty compliant oil? That's the oil they chose for comparison.

The oil they compared their top of the line oil to is our least expensive oil and is also an oil that is chemistry restricted because of the API-SN license. Because of the API-SN chemical box we could not use our proprietary Synerlec additive technology.
Synerlec brings a lot more to the party than just film strength, it adds some very significant resistance to oxidation as well.

If I got layed off today I would still run Royal Purple in every single thing I own, just like I do right now. From lawn mowers, edge trimmers and chainsaws to every single oil in all three vehicles and I have been ever since I first discovered them back in 1999.

We don't bash other oil companies. If they make good products we acknowledge that. Some of those same companies though feel they need to bash us and other oil companies to sell their oil.

I think they should just tell folks about the benefits of their oil and it will sell itself.

If you don't actually need a warranty compliant oil, then we have some significantly better products available.

Any way you cut it, that Amsoil is their top oil and it is being compared to our absolute least expensive oil. :shrug:
 

UnleashedBeast

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Because of the API-SN chemical box we could not use our proprietary Synerlec additive technology.
Synerlec brings a lot more to the party than just film strength, it adds some very significant resistance to oxidation as well.

I'm actually more concerned with the use of hydrocracked petroleum in the formulation, not the additive package contained within it. For $9.xx a quart, you'd expect a true synthetic to be inside Royal Purple's new bottle.

Amsoil does have hydrocracked petroleum products, however...pricing is lower to reflect the use of a cheaper base stock.

Amsoil XL 5W-30 = $7.65 retail or $5.85 preferred customer pricing
Amsoil OE 5W-30 = $6.10 retail or $4.70 preferred customer pricing

XL is a true syn/hydrocracked blend
OE is 100% hydrocracked group III

Sorry if my posts sound like bashing, as this isn't the case. Just curious why an inferior base stock is priced as a true synthetic. Results like these may have me seriously testing XPR to see what results come of it. With prices up to $19.99 a quart, it would be the most expensive UOA I have ever paid for.
 

testorossa1989

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Do you need an API-SN warranty compliant oil? That's the oil they chose for comparison.

The oil they compared their top of the line oil to is our least expensive oil and is also an oil that is chemistry restricted because of the API-SN license. Because of the API-SN chemical box we could not use our proprietary Synerlec additive technology.
Synerlec brings a lot more to the party than just film strength, it adds some very significant resistance to oxidation as well.

If I got layed off today I would still run Royal Purple in every single thing I own, just like I do right now. From lawn mowers, edge trimmers and chainsaws to every single oil in all three vehicles and I have been ever since I first discovered them back in 1999.

We don't bash other oil companies. If they make good products we acknowledge that. Some of those same companies though feel they need to bash us and other oil companies to sell their oil.

I think they should just tell folks about the benefits of their oil and it will sell itself.

If you don't actually need a warranty compliant oil we have some significantly better products available.

Although that top oil is being compared to our least expensive oil, it still isn't warranty compliant.... ours is. :shrug:

:pop:
 

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