would the GT intake work better on a BOSS engine? lets find out!

[isrboss]

How was his car setup? Similarly? Trying to put your story into perspective is hard when all the facts don't seem to be there.

The only real purpose of my story was to use a more powerful motor the 03 Cobra, which makes it's power in a lower rev area. He was the one shocked, that he was making 490hp or so to the ground he never mentioned tq. and getting walked on the straights by the Boss. That's the only real fact I have to offer here.

Edit: I may be off on the hp of the Cobra I'm thinking he may have told me 460 to the ground. That would make more sense since it was a pulley and tune.

 

[86Fbody]

The only real purpose of my story was to use a more powerful motor the 03 Cobra, which makes it's power in a lower rev area. He was the one shocked, that he was making 490hp or so to the ground he never mentioned tq. and getting walked on the straights by the Boss. That's the only real fact I have to offer here.

Edit: I may be off on the hp of the Cobra I'm thinking he may have told me 460 to the ground. That would make more sense since it was a pulley and tune.

I realize you were trying to make a point, but that point is moot if you don't include all of the pertinent data. I can go around saying I walked a 1000hp Supra all day without telling people he had stock suspension, huge rear gears, and 235 rear tires.

 

[isrboss]

I realize you were trying to make a point, but that point is moot if you don't include all of the pertinent data. I can go around saying I walked a 1000hp Supra all day without telling people he had stock suspension, huge rear gears, and 235 rear tires.

Sebring is a track with turns then drag strips(a lot of full throttle accel), since we are not allowed to pass in turns, It makes it a little simpler to gauge ones performance down the straights(place more facts here). I have no possible way to tell you all the facts of any story, maybe he had a toothache so he was lifting early.

I could have give a sh#t about passing a 03 Cobra out there, he was the one noticing it and surprised. I'm not like you, I'm just going to take the gentleman at his word that the Boss is faster than his Cobra.

No more stories for you! :nono:

 

[86Fbody]

Sebring is a track with turns then drag strips(a lot of full throttle accel), since we are not allowed to pass in turns, It makes it a little simpler to gauge ones performance down the straights(place more facts here). I have no possible way to tell you all the facts of any story, maybe he had a toothache so he was lifting early.

I could have give a sh#t about passing a 03 Cobra out there, he was the one noticing it and surprised. I'm not like you, I'm just going to take the gentleman at his word that the Boss is faster than his Cobra.

No more stories for you! :nono:

Stories are cool but the fact is that you were making an argument for HP and RPM's being better then the massive torque that the Cobra had, and yet didn't tell the whole story, I am fine with having no more of those stories.

 

[isrboss]

Stories are cool but the fact is that you were making an argument for HP and RPM's being better then the massive torque that the Cobra had, and yet didn't tell the whole story, I am fine with having no more of those stories.

This discussion is over, but here is an in car from another Mustang showing what I told. If you start at 10:20 you see me come by in my white Boss, then shortly later the blue Cobra. I'm sure since we were both on streets, he had to be more caution exiting. It always comes down to the nut behind the wheel though.

Track Guys @ Sebring May25 2013 - YouTube

 

[pufferfish]

OK, a lot happened since my last post...you guys have been busy!
EJR, this comparison is valid, because it shows apples to apples between 2 intakes with nothing else to muddy the waters of which is better at what. of course gear ratio selection is very important to optimizing the power curve, but even if I used a boss friendly 4.10 ratio for the graph, the outcome of shift points would be the same and both intakes would make more wheel torque at an equal rate. the GT intake would still kick the BOSS' ass below 5000rpm and the BOSS would still murder the GT on the top end.

Darren, I tried one of those calculators (albeit not that one) and it wasn't even close to the same outcome.

C/O BOSS, my 4th gear dyno graph shows the BOSS went to 8200 before shutting it down. I do wonder now, what the graph would have looked like out as far as the copperhead would compute? 500rwhp is the new 400rwhp! Revolution Auto has an '11 GT with ported heads, regrinds and the CJ setup doing 522rwhp on 93 octane right now!

 

[86Fbody]

I wonder if you'll be using both intakes, possibly the Boss at longer tracks and the GT at say Shenandoah.

 

[pufferfish]

interesting point. it would really depend on what gear I go into those turns in and what my after apex rpm's were. I like to avoid 2nd gear even on a tight track such as Shenandoah, so I might find myself trying to power out in the GT's sweet spot.

also, it would be interesting to see if those short straights would actually allow me to wind out to 8000+rpm. if I am held to 7500 or less through half of the track, the GT intake may be a better choice.

but, NASA TT never runs there, so I would likely be doing only track days there or the occasional SCCA club trial. I can't see changing an intake for a track day, but maybe the club trial?

 

[86Fbody]

If it wins you another cup I would.

 

[pufferfish]

I do love my gigantic glass beer mug!...and it would be nice to collect a full set!

 

[Ultrakla$$ic]

So how would a 3:31 geared manual trans GT intake fair against a 3:73 geared manual trans Boss intake car in the aforementioned settings/racing conditions?

 

[pufferfish]

So how would a 3:31 geared manual trans GT intake fair against a 3:73 geared manual trans Boss intake car in the aforementioned settings/racing conditions?

I am working on an excel spreadsheet to be able to quickly drop in different variables to try such a scenario. I don't think the gt intake has a shot of winning (in theory) unless it has the ability to cross the line with one less shift than the boss.

that said, the big surprise with the coyotes is that the 3.31 guys are killing it! its counterintuitive, I know!

 

[Ultrakla$$ic]

I am working on an excel spreadsheet to be able to quickly drop in different variables to try such a scenario. I don't think the gt intake has a shot of winning (in theory) unless it has the ability to cross the line with one less shift than the boss.

that said, the big surprise with the coyotes is that the 3.31 guys are killing it! its counterintuitive, I know!

That's the reason for my inquiry. I test drove a 2012 GT M6 with 3:31 gears and that thing stretched gearing out to a new level! Other guys were shifting while I still had my foot mashed to the floor in the same gear. This is where the race was won a lot of times.

I bought the 2013 GT M6 with 3:73's because it came like this and I was ready to buy that day! I did like the 3:31 gearing better IMO.

 

[pufferfish]

That's the reason for my inquiry. I test drove a 2012 GT M6 with 3:31 gears and that thing stretched gearing out to a new level! Other guys were shifting while I still had my foot mashed to the floor in the same gear. This is where the race was won a lot of times.

I bought the 2013 GT M6 with 3:73's because it came like this and I was ready to buy that day! I did like the 3:31 gearing better IMO.

Calcs look like on a stock gt with stock rev limit, the 3.73's top out at 113mph in 4th gear. the 3.31's are good to 127. so, the 3.73 probably has to shift to 5th in stock trim. now, once a simple tune is added with a higher rev limit, the 3.73's can go to 122pmh at 7500.

another factor is 1st gear wheel torque. the 3.73's are more traction limited because they are pushing 400lb/ft more than the 3.31's. that may be the real factor in the 3.31's strange dominance.

shift point graph doesn't show anything unusual about the 3.31's over the 3.73's, so that isn't a factor.

so, if you add traction and a tune that raises the rev limit, I believe the 3.31's should be eaten alive by the 3.73's...on the strip. totally different ballgame on the road course. there, its entirely dependent on the track.

 

[darreng505]

I designed my entire drivetrain gearing around VIR, which I do using only 3rd and 4th gear with optional drop down to 2nd on turn 4 and oak tree if I need RPMS (e.g. in traffic).

Here's my gearing chart using that web tool. 153 in 4th. :rockon:
I have the pulse ring upgrade so when I add the CJ intake, those numbers will all bounce up.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

What I get out of this OP.

Unless you keep the car above 5,800 RPM at all times, you are losing power with the Boss intake.

Until the engine revs higher than 6,800 RPM, the Boss intake is worthless.

 

[pufferfish]

I designed my entire drivetrain gearing around VIR, which I do using only 3rd and 4th gear with optional drop down to 2nd on turn 4 and oak tree if I need RPMS (e.g. in traffic).

Here's my gearing chart using that web tool. 153 in 4th. :rockon:
I have the pulse ring upgrade so when I add the CJ intake, those numbers will all bounce up.

First, that close ratio is really close to 2-5 on the MT82! Second, those shift points are not correct, right? Third, you need to bring your rpms up now, not after the CJ! Have you seen my dyno graph? You have the same engine! Fourth, 306mph in 6th...hehehe, can you imagine?!

Unleashed, you are absolutely correct! The gt intake is so much better at making mid-range power! For a stop light racer, the gt intake on a boss engine would be a total sleeper! It's a great intake that gets very little credit!

 

[TheVikingRL]

I wonder if you'll be using both intakes, possibly the Boss at longer tracks and the GT at say Shenandoah.

I ran Shenandoah this past weekend and can vouch for low RPM power being a big help here. I ran the entire track in 3rd and 4th but there are several slow speed corners exits where you really use just about the entire RPM range. Was really impressed with how much usable powerband this engine makes.

 

[darreng505]

First, that close ratio is really close to 2-5 on the MT82! Second, those shift points are not correct, right? Third, you need to bring your rpms up now, not after the CJ! Have you seen my dyno graph? You have the same engine! Fourth, 306mph in 6th...hehehe, can you imagine?!

Unleashed, you are absolutely correct! The gt intake is so much better at making mid-range power! For a stop light racer, the gt intake on a boss engine would be a total sleeper! It's a great intake that gets very little credit!

Yeah, I didn't think those shift points looked correct. It's why I was wondering how to get a power curve for each gear of my car to find them, then I saw your calculus on shift points and thought that's what I need!

I don't think I can bump up my rev limits/rpms without a bigger intake? Or can I? What is a good amount? Another 250? Ford Engineer I talked to at VIR in the spring said not to go over 8000.

 

[isrboss]

Unleashed, you are absolutely correct! The gt intake is so much better at making mid-range power! For a stop light racer, the gt intake on a boss engine would be a total sleeper! It's a great intake that gets very little credit!

Puffer, I have no doubt that on a given track better mid range tq is going to produce better lap times. Like what was said earlier, in traffic while racing the better mid tq is going to be a better choice. I just have a hard time seeing a large margin in lap times though with a consistent wheel man in the seat.

Are you planning to give each intake a couple of sessions each soon? I really think on an open track without traffic(leading) you will see better laps with the Boss intake with the 8000 rpm revs. It would be great to give each intake two 20-25 min sessions then avg. the times and post that with best lap with both.