Whipple 3300 Install-653 WHP

[ac427cobra]

I’ve always given you guys good information!

Tim

THAT you have! And we thank you for that! :thumbsup:

 

[1bad04cobra]

Billy:

Noboby is reprimanding you. You may not personally know a lot about these engines but the 5.4 has been around for some seven years in various iterations. Some people have made the 5.4 their life's work. :idea: I can assure you that fourcam is one of the MOST knowledgeable individuals regarding the 5.4 that hangs out on these message boards! I'd use a little more discretion waving the bs flag to somone as knowledgeable as fourcam. :read:

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

Bruce, i'm not saying he doesn't know his stuff,i just think it is premature in saying how these engines are going to hold up.In my opinion no one knows for sure.Many people are thinking there engines are going to blow @ 650 for sure and it may not be the case, but we'll see in time.Btw the bs flag was not toward one person just the theory:beer:

 

[ON D BIT]

Btw the bs flag was not toward one person just the theory:beer:

those two above dont post theorys. they post facts from test preformed by countless engineers and engine builders who are the best of the best. remember this information is not from one source or one test.

 

[shakerb]

The cost would depend on quite a few things: Will you R&R the motor yourself or will you have someone do it for you? Forged or billet rods? This would also be an opportune time to go with ARP hardware throughout.
Personally, I would without question rebalance the rotating assembly if it were my GT500. Though some respected builders believe that anything under a 25g difference shouldn't require it. Anyway for the rod swap alone, cost can vary somewhere between ~$600-$2000 not including R&R.

Thanks Fourcam!

As far as this discussion, I'm no expert on engines. Never took one apart. I do know enough however to listen to the people whose business is to know engines. In light of Fourcam's knowledge, as well as those at Roush and others, I believe the safe limit of this motor is where they say it is (~600RWHP). That's plenty of HP for the street. If you're a track man, do yourself a favor and replace the rods and other supporting hardware as Fourcam mentioned. You'll enjoy the car more when you can sleep well at night. ;-)

 

[Wild Bill]

Seeing how the KB can get 725RWHP on pump gas with their new supercharger, do you guys think it's worth replacing the rods for the extra 125RWHP (from the 600 safe limit) we can get on pump? Would the clutch and tranny handle more power?

For me it makes no sense to get a kb or whipple and only make 650rwp.Not when you can get 600rwp with bolt ons and be safer.Why pay $4k+ for 50 more hp only to be on borrowed time?Besides the fact that you will be the same hp as many kb & whippled terminators and you dont want that.If you are going to do it go the extra mile and and get the rods.You will know it was the right decision when you are driving a 750-800rwp monster shelby!:rockon:

 

[manOwar]

For me it makes no sense to get a kb or whipple and only make 650rwp.Not when you can get 600rwp with bolt ons and be safer.Why pay $4k+ for 50 more hp only to be on borrowed time?Besides the fact that you will be the same hp as many kb & whippled terminators and you dont want that.If you are going to do it go the extra mile and and get the rods.You will know it was the right decision when you are driving a 750-800rwp monster shelby!:rockon:

I agree and I will be doing the rod's when the KB goes on but if a guy wanted to, he could swap pulleys and load the tune for a day at the track. He could have the best of both worlds easily. IMO

 

[shakerb]

Are the rods all that need to be changed at those HP levels? What about the pistons, clutch..?

 

[ON D BIT]

Are the rods all that need to be changed at those HP levels? What about the pistons, clutch..?

from what i have heard the clutch and tranny will be going into all the new vettes 08 and 09.... yes that includes the new blown ls9 with over 700 crank horsepower. i believe this combo will hold alot more power than that also.

 

[Angel]

Thanks Fourcam!

As far as this discussion, I'm no expert on engines. Never took one apart. I do know enough however to listen to the people whose business is to know engines. In light of Fourcam's knowledge, as well as those at Roush and others, I believe the safe limit of this motor is where they say it is (~600RWHP). That's plenty of HP for the street. If you're a track man, do yourself a favor and replace the rods and other supporting hardware as Fourcam mentioned. You'll enjoy the car more when you can sleep well at night. ;-)

Roush has three levels of the Shelby S/C upgrade on the go and the extreme one (the one w/o the Warrenty) is predicted to be good for 740 at the crank. Around 550 at the wheels. Warrenty Entry level S/C is on the Market now to add 120+ HP at the crank.

 

[Angel]

from what i have heard the clutch and tranny will be going into all the new vettes 08 and 09.... yes that includes the new blown ls9 with over 700 crank horsepower. i believe this combo will hold alot more power than that also.

You are correct. The decision is for the Vette and they are currently talking about the Blown version, as they need to supply the curent allocation of the Shelby Production with the option to the third year of 2009. The option to the third year production of the Shelby is still in talks as i heard it a few weeks ago and if they do, they are shooting for 9K of them.

 

[Crossss]

For those of you who are engine/psuedo engine builders how would you rebuild the Shelby's 5.4 (what parts/brands used) if you were already going in to replace the rods? (i.e. pistons,studs,head port/polish, valves, springs, stroked, stoked block,etc.) I'm sure more people are going to start asking about this as more GT500 owners get used to the 500hp and want to go bigger/badder.

 

[californiacuda]

Does anyone know of a 5.4 crankshaft with center weights. Seems like a needed item for high hp/high rpm engines?

 

[Fourcam330]

Does anyone know of a 5.4 crankshaft with center weights. Seems like a needed item for high hp/high rpm engines?

Custom billet 4340 is the only route. Lack of a center counterweight is really not an issue until ~8000rpm/1400HP.

 

[Fourcam330]

For those of you who are engine/psuedo engine builders how would you rebuild the Shelby's 5.4 (what parts/brands used) if you were already going in to replace the rods? (i.e. pistons,studs,head port/polish, valves, springs, stroked, stoked block,etc.) I'm sure more people are going to start asking about this as more GT500 owners get used to the 500hp and want to go bigger/badder.

First there's no reason to bore/stroke a forced induction motor, the power adder makes the power, not the displacement. By adding inches in a modular you significantly weaken critical bottom end components, limit rpm, and run into gasket sealing issues.
What rods depends on what your application is. Most will find 4340 forged Hs (used in 03/04 Cobras) to be sufficient, but you'll want to spring for the 7/16" ARP 2000 rod bolt upgrade. If you plan on 1000HP or 7k+rpm go with Manley 4340 ultralight billet I beams. 2000HP Manley 300M spec 4340 billets. Why Manley over Oliver, Carillo, etc.? All major steel billet rods weight approximately the same, meaning they use about the same amount of material in the design. Manley makes the big end of the rod more massive, while the other brands thicken the necks. I nor anyone I know has ever seen a forged H fail on its own, and the chances of a billet rod snapping at the neck are basically non existant. Over time all rods will tend to oval at the big (crank) end, so it makes sense to have the most mass/stability down there vs. in the neck.
Head porting is really unecessary for 90% of those with GT500s. You can easily make 1000HP with bone stock heads/cams and the right power adder.
ARP hardware should be used throughout the motor, FM bearings and quality SS rings as well. Most importantly make sure your builder knows what he's doing.

 

[chuckstang]

lol the last part is the hardest!
"make sure your builder knows what he's doing"

 

[ac427cobra]

lol the last part is the hardest!
"make sure your builder knows what he's doing"

In other words Chuck, don't take your new GT500 to Sears for a tune!? :idea:

 

[eci]

However, bigger motor = less overall stress...........and torque curve broader than 4.6

.... and of course bigger car == 250 lbs

 

[R1Lello]

.... and of course bigger car == 250 lbs

with shaker 500 it's less than 200 but who's counting? :coolman:

 

[Angel]

with shaker 500 it's less than 200 but who's counting? :coolman:

The Upgraded Shaker adds 75 lbs to the car according to Ford Spec.

Albeit the weight can be re-distributed and lowered by replacing some key performance underpinnings, there comes a point where there is no replacement for displacement. Some of this is evident in Evolution's and Paul's Performance work on the cars thus far.

 

[shakerb]

First there's no reason to bore/stroke a forced induction motor, the power adder makes the power, not the displacement. By adding inches in a modular you significantly weaken critical bottom end components, limit rpm, and run into gasket sealing issues.
What rods depends on what your application is. Most will find 4340 forged Hs (used in 03/04 Cobras) to be sufficient, but you'll want to spring for the 7/16" ARP 2000 rod bolt upgrade. If you plan on 1000HP or 7k+rpm go with Manley 4340 ultralight billet I beams. 2000HP Manley 300M spec 4340 billets. Why Manley over Oliver, Carillo, etc.? All major steel billet rods weight approximately the same, meaning they use about the same amount of material in the design. Manley makes the big end of the rod more massive, while the other brands thicken the necks. I nor anyone I know has ever seen a forged H fail on its own, and the chances of a billet rod snapping at the neck are basically non existant. Over time all rods will tend to oval at the big (crank) end, so it makes sense to have the most mass/stability down there vs. in the neck.
Head porting is really unecessary for 90% of those with GT500s. You can easily make 1000HP with bone stock heads/cams and the right power adder.
ARP hardware should be used throughout the motor, FM bearings and quality SS rings as well. Most importantly make sure your builder knows what he's doing.

As i understand it, the crankshaft and the block are OK to hold 1000 BHP. What about the pistons Fourcam? Are they OK to hold 1000 crank HP? If/when I decide to change the rods, I might as well have everything done to the motor that will be required to hold that kind of power (while the motor is open). I like the Manley 4340 ultralight billet I beams.