Whipple 3300 Install-653 WHP

[19COBRA93]

I thought the KB made like 800rwhp. Were those numbers not true, or are the tunes/boost levels that much different? Either way, great numbers at pretty low boost.

I think that was 25lbs plus. 15 lbs isn't much of anything boost wise.

 

[03gobluecobra]

I think that was 25lbs plus. 15 lbs isn't much of anything boost wise.

OK, yeah that would make a lot of sense then.

 

[LR 01 Cobra]

Roush who helped develop the motor for the 03 cobra and shelby says that they are on barrowed time after 600 to the wheels for the shelby..

I've said the same thing from day one, which was long before the GT 500 was even announced. Not near as many modded GT 500's as their are 03/04 Cobra's. In the same time frame the 03's were modded a lot quicker and a lot more of them.

Tim

 

[marc@kentucky]

Really? I unfortunately went astray for a while and wasn't into Mustangs when the Terms came out (actually since the Fox bodies in 79). I'm very impressed by all of the SVT offerings as I've caught up.

It seems to be, however, that the aftermarket was seriously on the ball with the intro of the GT500. I mean, I had less than 1000 miles on mine, with multiple offerings for CAI's, pully swaps, etc. Not to mention the car has only been out a couple of months and KB and Whipple have already posted dyno results.

Was the market faster than this with the Terms??

 

[19COBRA93]

Was the market faster than this with the Terms??

I don't remember it being that quick. My brother got his term in April of '03 and there were still a lot of reasonably basic stuff he was waiting on because it wasn't available yet.

 

[Fourcam330]

Where exactly does this "limit" come from? I mean the limit put on terminators was put there because based on previous incidents, that's about the HP they tend to let go. What sort of incidents is the limit on the GT500's based on?

One letting go during testing at Roush. ~640rw.

 

[manOwar]

I think that was 25lbs plus. 15 lbs isn't much of anything boost wise.

19.5 lbs on race gas made 810rwhp.
19.5 lbs on pump gas made 725rwhp.

 

[19COBRA93]

19.5 lbs on race gas made 810rwhp.
19.5 lbs on pump gas made 725rwhp.

Well I may have been a "little" off on boost. Regardless, it's hard to compare when the boost isn't the same.

 

[manOwar]

Well I may have been a "little" off on boost. Regardless, it's hard to compare when the boost isn't the same.

I made a mistake, it's 725 @ 16psi and 810 @ 19psi on pump gas.

Sorry for the false information. Here is the link....

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337344

 

[19COBRA93]

One letting go during testing at Roush. ~640rw.

Is that the only incident we know of? And is that really an indication of the rod strength? I made almost that much with the stock cast I beams on my 302. I'd expect the GT500 rods to be stronger than that...And I realize that's a huge debate.

 

[Fourcam330]

I made a mistake, it's 725 @ 16psi and 810 @ 19psi on pump gas.

Sorry for the false information. Here is the link....

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337344

Was it ever determined if the 810 # was on 93 octane or 100?

 

[Fourcam330]

Is that the only incident we know of? And is that really an indication of the rod strength? I made almost that much with the stock cast I beams on my 302. I'd expect the GT500 rods to be stronger than that...And I realize that's a huge debate.

So far yes, it's the only incident that I know of. It was undoubtedly a rod failure, they were running 104 octane just to make sure there was no chance of detonation, and they were testing rod strength at the time.
I'm sure if the rod/motor dimensions were the same or even more similar the GT500 rods would be far superior to your 302 Is, however, they are different applications altogether.
I'm also not saying that you can't run ~600-625rw occassionally at the strip, I just wouldn't expect it to live very long if you did it regularly.
I believe you mentioned earlier that when the Terms first debuted quite a few people believed the shortblocks were forged in the hands of Zeus. It took some time, a few years in fact, for enough to take notice of the shortcomings of the pistons. I expect a somewhat similar scenario with GT500s; the difference of course being rod failures are usually more destructive than broken slugs/rings.
Other substantiating evidence would be the opinions of two world class Modular engine builders that have seen the rods up close. Both independantly concurred that an approx 600rw level should be considered the safe limit.

 

[19COBRA93]

Makes sense.

 

[shakerb]

Seeing how the KB can get 725RWHP on pump gas with their new supercharger, do you guys think it's worth replacing the rods for the extra 125RWHP (from the 600 safe limit) we can get on pump? Would the clutch and tranny handle more power?

 

[Fourcam330]

Clutch and trans won't have an issue with that type of power. As for replacing the rods, it's really up to you.
As previously discussed most of the time when a rod fails you end up with a hole in the block that wasn't there before. If you can deal with the carnage, and can swing the bill afterwards, by all means, push the stocker to its limits. If not, it would probably be better to think proactively.

 

[hotrodstang]

All I can tell you guys is that at the 653 RWHP # the motor sounds great. I have had enough experiance with hi performance engines to know the difference a safe motor and one on the edge,(This could be due to the many motors I have gernaded, mostly due to nitrous !) This engine revs very easy and is not straining at these numbers. Yes it is all about piston speed, rod angle and cylinder pressure, Ford and SVT were very adamant about the 6250 RPM limit. They are of the opinion that that is what caused the past failures on this motor, of course with the GT and the dry sump oil system this is not the issue. Whipple works very close with Ford, in fact my final tune came from Ed B. at SVT. They make Ford racings blowers. They are a first class outfit and have a very nice facility, super clean, and are no B.S. The dyno numbers are true and the driveability is great. I highley recommend them!:beer:

 

[1bad04cobra]

Clutch and trans won't have an issue with that type of power. As for replacing the rods, it's really up to you.
As previously discussed most of the time when a rod fails you end up with a hole in the block that wasn't there before. If you can deal with the carnage, and can swing the bill afterwards, by all means, push the stocker to its limits. If not, it would probably be better to think proactively.

Do you think kb & wipple took this into account because @ 15lb's this makes over the "safe limit" if your right They won't be selling after the mass carniage.This makes absolutly no sence.

 

[19COBRA93]

Do you think kb & wipple took this into account because @ 15lb's this makes over the "safe limit" if your right They won't be selling after the mass carniage.This makes absolutly no sence.

That's not exactly something they consider. They sell you the ability, it's up to you to take the steps to make it last.

If their own testing shows 700-800 hp with no problems, I don't think they're seeing a strength limit.

It's no different than selling supercharger kits for the '99-01 cobras.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Really? I unfortunately went astray for a while and wasn't into Mustangs when the Terms came out (actually since the Fox bodies in 79). I'm very impressed by all of the SVT offerings as I've caught up.

It seems to be, however, that the aftermarket was seriously on the ball with the intro of the GT500. I mean, I had less than 1000 miles on mine, with multiple offerings for CAI's, pully swaps, etc. Not to mention the car has only been out a couple of months and KB and Whipple have already posted dyno results.

Was the market faster than this with the Terms??

05+ models in general have got a HUGE aftermarket push, from Ford Racing and everyone else. I guess they figured it was a lot more popular than SN-95s. :xpl:

 

[03 DSG Snake]

So far yes, it's the only incident that I know of. It was undoubtedly a rod failure, they were running 104 octane just to make sure there was no chance of detonation, and they were testing rod strength at the time.
I'm sure if the rod/motor dimensions were the same or even more similar the GT500 rods would be far superior to your 302 Is, however, they are different applications altogether.
I'm also not saying that you can't run ~600-625rw occassionally at the strip, I just wouldn't expect it to live very long if you did it regularly.
I believe you mentioned earlier that when the Terms first debuted quite a few people believed the shortblocks were forged in the hands of Zeus. It took some time, a few years in fact, for enough to take notice of the shortcomings of the pistons. I expect a somewhat similar scenario with GT500s; the difference of course being rod failures are usually more destructive than broken slugs/rings.
Other substantiating evidence would be the opinions of two world class Modular engine builders that have seen the rods up close. Both independantly concurred that an approx 600rw level should be considered the safe limit.

Basically it comes down to you gotta pay to play with either the GT500 or Terminators.

600rwhp, being close to the limits for both, is PLENTY for most people out there, and is insane on a stock block when you think about it. And if you want more, then you deserve to buy a new shortblock. Ford can't do ALL the work for you :rockon: