Triple pump vs Dual Pump Heat Test!

Aaron@JPCRacing

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Basically we wanted to perform a test here at the shop and settle the argument that 3 pumps in a fuel hat cause way too much heat and can not be used. The other issue we wanted to see was if in fact buy running 3 pumps you will suck the bucket in the tank dry.

Here are a few pictures of our setup. Basically I started with a stock 2005 mustang tank and cut a large hole it in. This way we could see inside the fuel bucket while both combos were running. We would also be able to check various temps as we were conducting the test.

The fuel system was setup as a returns style fuel system where the pumps are running 100% at all times. What we have simulated here is a car idling (using minimal fuel) where the pumps are under the most load.

On to the pics

IMG_3461.jpg


IMG_3460.jpg


IMG_3462.jpg


Basically I set up the go pro so we could video the entire test in fast forward so no one will think we tried to favor one set up or the other. Honestly we have no reason to mislead anyone since our hat will do both 2/3 pumps. Its nice to set it up like this so that you have room to grow.

Here are the test Results

Trippletest.jpg





So all in all I think you can see from the numbers above a 3 pump setup doesn't add much if any extra heat. Basically it may heat the fuel up a bit quicker but all in all the numbers don't lie. Both setups added 25 Degrees.

Both times we used 50 PSI on the regulator

We used a voltmeter to watch our voltage. We used a regular 12v battery and a charger so we were about to keep it right around 12.75 -13 volts.



here are your 400 test numbers

dual400vstrip400s.png


We also did our flow test.

Triple 342s flow 155 Gallons per hour @ 13 volts and 50PSI
Dual 400s flow 139 Gallons per hour @ 13 volts and 50 PSI
Triple 400s flow 169 Gallons per hour @ 13 volts and 50 PSI

Al tests were conducted with pump temp in the range of 90-95 degrees!

So all in all to me it seems to be pretty clear that a triple 342 will out preform a dual 400 set up in both cases(heat and flow). I will also add that the 342s are cheaper!

Walbro 342 are 100 Each
Walbro 405s are 159.95

Also i will add unless you are making 1000 RWHP on E85(1450 RWHP on race gas) you don't really need need triple 400s. We can support over 1000 to the tire on regular fuel with the 342s. We have proved this with several cars.
 
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Brandon03Cobra

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Just curious, how do the Walbro 342s compare to Ford GT pumps? I have a KB 2.4 and I was thinking of getting 80lb injectors and a new fuel pump setup with my BAP to switch to E85.
 

Brutal Metal

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Just curious, how do the Walbro 342s compare to Ford GT pumps? I have a KB 2.4 and I was thinking of getting 80lb injectors and a new fuel pump setup with my BAP to switch to E85.


The GT pumps are designed for variable voltage returnless fuel systems.
Nice job guys this will help lots of the return guys!:rockon:
I'm betting you get a lot asking about Baps like already mentioned..
 

Aaron@JPCRacing

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great info! but what about duals with a BAP?

With our fuel system a BAP isn't needed. If you run out of fuel with dual's you can add a third pump in. Triple 342's will make 1000rwhp on gas and triple 400's will make over 1000rwhp on E85 and almost 1400rwhp on gas.

Just curious, how do the Walbro 342s compare to Ford GT pumps? I have a KB 2.4 and I was thinking of getting 80lb injectors and a new fuel pump setup with my BAP to switch to E85.

Give us a call and we'll set you up with a custom fuel system to fit your needs.

The GT pumps are designed for variable voltage returnless fuel systems.
Nice job guys this will help lots of the return guys!:rockon:
I'm betting you get a lot asking about Baps like already mentioned..

Not so much, our fuel system can support BIG power without the use of a BAP.
 

Tommy@JPC

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We thought about doing a BAP test but this is very time consuming for sure and I would believe adding voltage is going to add heat. It would be nice to know how much but you should not need a BAP with a dual pump return system. If you do, you should go triple pump :rolling:. No real time to try to figure out a way if possible to test a returnless system. Our main concern was to Myth Bust the (3) 342's heats the fuel over a twin 400 or 405 pump (whatever you want it to be :) set up which is 100% inaccurate. It was really irrelevant to us since the cp-e hats that we use and sell will support 2 pump or 3 pump designs and the cp-e hat is the only hat currently on the market that can support 2 or 3 pumps and support the Walbro (USA) 342/400/450 pumps. ( or 405/465 whichever the flavor of the week name is for the last 2 pumps ):rockon:

Also REAL WORLD HP NUMBERS on our systems.

We have a few cars running our systems that are actually making BIG POWER.

JPC Shop car 2011 Paxton (urt-a gas) 1035rwhp w/ ID72's & (3)342's.
JPC Built 2011 Single 76mm turbo system car ( american muscle shootout winner )(urt-a gas) 1015rwhp w/ ID & (3)342's
2012 Boss w/ F1 procharger (e-85) 1033rwhp w/ 105's & (3)400's ( soon to be T76mm turbo
Team Beefcake 2011 Vortech (e-85) 1003rwhp w/ ID1000 & (3) 400's
Chris Cruz 2011 Whipple 4.0 (e-85) 1002rwhp w/205's & (3) DeatschWerks 300

Many others that I can't think of right now.
 

Brutal Metal

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That 2011 Paxton car you guys tuned is a freak of nature I'm still shaking my head when it put down 800+ on 7lbs... haha!
 

beefcake

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the system has performed flawlessly to date for us

i recommend it to all my customers wanting to make big power
 

Justin@VMP

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That test leaves out a huge factor, heat from the exhaust pipes that pass under the tank.

I can easily get the new Shelby measuring 170* F intake air temps by idling in a parking lot for 15min with the AC on. Ford actually tests much more severe conditions, they have to replicate death valley type conditions in a worst case scenario. They actually pull the front of a car into a heat shed during parts of their testing (blowing hot air at it). Such severe ambient heat should play a role in any temperature testing, as its going to compound results.

I would do two things to make this testing useful...

First establish what is too hot, and second simulate real world conditions.

Then you can determine if three pumps push the system to where it no longer functions correctly.

I have no horse in this race, but if it were my car I might keep some of the factory variable speed functionality even on a return system.
 

Robertp

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Your test is at 50 psi, the 342s can't keep up with the 405s I've seen it on both of my cars the 342 start giving up over 60 psi
 

Tommy@JPC

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We did it at 50psi as a base pressure. This was more off a heat test than a flow test. We just flowed them at 50psi to see what the results would be, which ended up being roughly what they've been tested at before. We understand that at 60psi and high the twin 405's will flow more fuel but they also created more heat.

@Justin. We've said this before on another forum. Exhaust heat/road heat ect ect will not make the (3) 342 put out more heat. 2 pumps/3 pumps whatever will be receiving the same exhaust heat under the tank ect. So it would equally affect the fuel correct? The twin 405's run hotter than (3) 342's. Also like we stated it doesn't affect us either way the cp-e hats we sell will support (2) 342/405/465's or (3) 342/405/465's. The most versatile hat on the market, we like options. Not just force opinions.
 

BTrinanes

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Sorry to bring this one alive again but do you not recommend activating 2 of the 3 pumps via hobb switch or something similar? Or does that create a tuning issue?
 

coposrv

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I love seeing these tests done. I like a vendor/ tuner/ builder performing these test to know exactly how to answer customers questions and better facilitate their needs
 

95YellowGTBeast

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So whats the power limit of triple 342's on E-85? I made 904RWHP on E-85 and the pressure was probably around 65 psi...... 40psi base pressure + 25psi boost. Just wondering because I am going to try and make 1200RWHP through a TH400.
 

MICLO50

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great info man and thanks for taking the time to do tests like this. i wish i could see a test done like this on the aeromotive eliminator pump to actually see how much they heat up the fuel as rumor has it.
 

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