Trinity 5.8 to live on in S550

[mustangc]

...Ford will keep setting the bar higher and that's a great thing.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm a Ford fan. I'm a Mustang fanatic. Not just MY Mustang, but ALL Mustangs. The couple who drove their '65 289 'vert or the old lady who drove her '64-1/2 260 coupe in the local parade a few weeks back didn't care that the car right behind them had 662 hp or SatNav. My car existing didn't take away an ounce of the love they have for their cars. In fact, my being there added to their experience. We shared a passion that for the moment, made us family.

Buy what you like, personalize it to make it "yours", and drop the inferiority complex, boys. If you buy a car only because it's the latest or greatest or fastest, you will always eventually be disappointed and left chasing the next new thing. Even the million dollar McLaren F1 was eventually surpassed. If it can happen to the mighty Mac, it will most certainly happen to our beloved Shelby.

I admit I smile when I consider that my Shelby has more horsepower than the iconic F1 supercar (627 hp) - although not quite as much as the LM version's 680.​

Think about it, the worlds most highly coveted cars are so because of what they accomplished or stood for when they were made, not what they are now. FWIW, the F1 is #1 on my all time favorite cars list. The 1970 Boss 429 is second, and my '14 GT500 is third. I can't help but imagine that the experience of hammering the throttle in my Shelby is the 2013 equivelant of what some lucky driver experienced in 1970 in the seat of his new Boss Nine. This is my Boss Nine experience. I'm enjoying it now. Whatever may come in 2015, 2020, or 2064 won't change that.

 

[BMR Tech]

I disagree that 5.4 has more potential then the 5.0 coyote/road runner. I admit that because of the increased deck height the 5.4 architecture has a possibitly to have more displacement. The block design on the 4.6/5.4 also seems to be holding up better without separating linings when abused. You can pull the heads off while leaving the cams in place. The long stroke also helps in the torque department.

Outside of that the 5.0 holds an advantage. The block is cheaper($1600 vrs $3800). The block has better windage control. The crank is fully counterweighted and has straight drill oiling. The valve train is more stable and timing chains less of an issue. With the expensive(for Ford not us) TiVCT allows for more compression and more aggressive cams(lift and Duration). The cam positioning in the 5.0 has been optimized to allow better flow and velocity for the cylinder heads that outperform the GT/GT500/00R heads. All around the 5.0 is a more efficient design as it should be as it's an evolution of the old architecture.

I would compare the 5.0 to the 00R which had a great intake, rods, the most agressive cams (before the 5.0 arrived) and ok compression. But that is not a totally fair comparison looking at a 13 yr old car comparing it to a 2011-2014. Even though the argument would be the engine design differences which again should be an improvement.

I would like to see a tall deck Coyote to have the best of both worlds or the 6.2 :rockon:

Modification for modification, compression for compression, the 5.8 engine will outperform the Coyote. That is what I was getting at.

The only advantages to the Coyote in our hobby, is the VVT and the fact they are cheaper. Cheaper goes out the door though, when looking for maximized performance. It cost $17,000 for a 351" Coyote shortblock.......and it cost Kaase a little over $20K to make over 800HP with a 5.4 based engine on 11.5:1 CR......... (something the Coyote will never achieve without a custom one-off block)

If cost is a concern - someone can buy a Navigator block and crank, some nice rods and pistons, some used 03-04 Cobra heads and a Sullivan intake, and custom cams. That combo will still make more than most people will ever make with an N/A Coyote, assuming the parts are modified properly, and the engine is built/timed properly.

 

[bpmurr]

This is exactly what gt500 owners were saying in 2012.

Well the GT350 won't be as fast in the straight line, have as much power and a lower top speed. However, it will have better handling, braking and less weight which as a overall package will be faster around a lot of tracks. You can take my comment to the bank since it's a very reliable source within Ford.

 

[mustangc]

...The only advantages to the Coyote in our hobby, is the VVT and the fact they are cheaper. Cheaper goes out the door though, when looking for maximized performance. It cost $17,000 for a 351" Coyote shortblock.......and it cost Kaase a little over $20K to make over 800HP with a 5.4 based engine on 11.5:1 CR......... (something the Coyote will never achieve without a custom one-off block)...

The only advantage the 5.8 has over the 5.0 is displacement and a larger exhaust port.

Oh, and CJ's are making 1200 horsepower on the factory Coyote blocks, so I'd say 800 is easy as government cheese.

I agree with F8L, a tall deck Coyote/Roadrunner would combine the best of both worlds and make one impressive powerplant.

 

[BMR Tech]

The only advantage the 5.8 has over the 5.0 is displacement and a larger exhaust port.

Oh, and CJ's are making 1200 horsepower on the factory Coyote blocks, so I'd say 800 is easy as government cheese.

Those "only" advantages are pretty important. lol

That is like the guys in the LS world saying, the only advantage to an LS1 has over a 4.8 is larger displacement.

The 5.4 based engine has much more potential than most give it credit for. Tymensky was making over 600rwhp (N/A) with one, through an unlocked converter, many years ago...

If the Coyote had the CI capability, especially for a reasonable price, then of course I would likely shift my opinion towards that platform.

The keyword is potential. Until a Coyote outpaces the 5.4 in the 1/4 mile, boost and N/A...and also on an engine dyno, I will continue with my belief :beer:

 

[BMR Tech]

On that note, I would like to add.....that I do believe the Coyote would be better for Ford, in terms of outfitting them into the newer chassis. The efficiency of the Coyote is heard to beat.

 

[svtrookie]

i hope its not true. I want the 13/14 to be the next 03/04

+1

 

[DrTriton]

Car & Driver should have done more research before publishing their story. The SC 5.8 is done. The company I work at builds parts for that engine - we're making our final shipment to Romeo Engine Plant next week.

 

[evil eye]

I couldn't agree more.

I'm a Ford fan. I'm a Mustang fanatic. Not just MY Mustang, but ALL Mustangs. The couple who drove their '65 289 'vert or the old lady who drove her '64-1/2 260 coupe in the local parade a few weeks back didn't care that the car right behind them had 662 hp or SatNav. My car existing didn't take away an ounce of the love they have for their cars. In fact, my being there added to their experience. We shared a passion that for the moment, made us family.

Buy what you like, personalize it to make it "yours", and drop the inferiority complex, boys. If you buy a car only because it's the latest or greatest or fastest, you will always eventually be disappointed and left chasing the next new thing. Even the million dollar McLaren F1 was eventually surpassed. If it can happen to the mighty Mac, it will most certainly happen to our beloved Shelby.

I admit I smile when I consider that my Shelby has more horsepower than the iconic F1 supercar (627 hp) - although not quite as much as the LM version's 680.​

Think about it, the worlds most highly coveted cars are so because of what they accomplished or stood for when they were made, not what they are now. FWIW, the F1 is #1 on my all time favorite cars list. The 1970 Boss 429 is second, and my '14 GT500 is third. I can't help but imagine that the experience of hammering the throttle in my Shelby is the 2013 equivelant of what some lucky driver experienced in 1970 in the seat of his new Boss Nine. This is my Boss Nine experience. I'm enjoying it now. Whatever may come in 2015, 2020, or 2064 won't change that.

Great post. This actually made me feel at peace, lol.

 

[evil eye]

Car & Driver should have done more research before publishing their story. The SC 5.8 is done. The company I work at builds parts for that engine - we're making our final shipment to Romeo Engine Plant next week.

Well that's an encouraging sign, nice!

 

[USV8PWR]

Isn't the trinity motor a bored out 5.4?

If so why would it not fit with just a few modifications?

Seems foolish of ford to develope the strongest production v8 ever, throw it into 10k cars or so and then scrap the whole thing. Why get rid of a huge asset?

Its called CAFE. And the corporate average will continually ramp up until 55 MPG average for 2025.

I honestly am convinced that Ford is trolling all of us on a epic level....

I agree!

As far as I am concerned, the war is over! Ford gave us the gun to take to the knife fight. The target was not the vette but we can play with them anyway. Zl1 is a joke( a good 5.0 takes care of that) the challenger, well. They can build the hellcat or whatever goofy name it's called. It won't hit the number anyway and it's a pig to boot. I am just glad I was able to get my badass ride! And the aftermarket is alive and well for us! I think 10000 of us are lucky and who cares what they build next. Each year from now on I believe will be harder to modify as technology gets better and warranties get tighter. We may get a better handling car but I doubt we will see a faster one for a good while

Exactly!

Exactly.

And as Tob said, turbo-boosted Coyote>SC-boosted Trinity
-J

Except in durability. Turbo cars don't seem to have near the durability that supercharged ones do. Especially when modified.

Who cares? I'm not sure why some are freaking out here. Did you not think the new s550 would be the greatest mustang ever? Its forward progress people and it will be better in every way.

And who cares if the new cobra even has 1000 hp when released. It takes nothing away from how awesome the 13/14 Shelby is and I don't believe it will impact values that much because it will still be the most powerful car of that platform. Just like the 93 and 03/04 Cobra, the 13/14 will be the one to get from that specific generation.

Ford will keep setting the bar higher and that's a great thing.

At some point the limit in performance will be reached. Maybe it's not there yet in handling, but I bet it is really close to the top in straight line acceleration. Unless they increase HP and give more grip. Which I believe they won't do either with the next gen.

Well the GT350 won't be as fast in the straight line, have as much power and a lower top speed. However, it will have better handling, braking and less weight which as a overall package will be faster around a lot of tracks. You can take my comment to the bank since it's a very reliable source within Ford.

I bet this is right on the money! There are only 2 cars that are RWD, have a manual transmission, less weight and less HP than the 2013 Shelby GT500 and are actually quicker in a straight line; the 2013 Corvette ZR1 and the 2014 Viper. However, both are quicker not only due to less weight but also with better aerodynamics and much wider tires (better grip). I doubt the next Mustang will meet all of those things which it will have to in order to be quicker with less HP. ;-)

Car & Driver should have done more research before publishing their story. The SC 5.8 is done. The company I work at builds parts for that engine - we're making our final shipment to Romeo Engine Plant next week.

Although this info sounds very interesting I would argue that your company should be building parts for replacement under warranties for quite some time forward. Doesn't Ford have to offer replacement parts for 5 to 10 years? Just because the car or the engine isn't offered anymore doesn't mean parts won't keep getting produced for a while longer.

 

[evil eye]

Although this info sounds very interesting I would argue that your company should be building parts for replacement under warranties for quite some time forward. Doesn't Ford have to offer replacement parts for 5 to 10 years? Just because the car or the engine isn't offered anymore doesn't mean parts won't keep getting produced for a while longer.

I read that post as it's the final shipment to the plant, not as the final production ever. I'm assuming the spare parts wouldn't be kept there?

 

[DrTriton]

Its called CAFE. And the corporate average will continually ramp up until 55 MPG average for 2025.




I agree!



Exactly!



Except in durability. Turbo cars don't seem to have near the durability that supercharged ones do. Especially when modified.



At some point the limit in performance will be reached. Maybe it's not there yet in handling, but I bet it is really close to the top in straight line acceleration. Unless they increase HP and give more grip. Which I believe they won't do either with the next gen.



I bet this is right on the money! There are only 2 cars that are RWD, have a manual transmission, less weight and less HP than the 2013 Shelby GT500 and are actually quicker in a straight line; the 2013 Corvette ZR1 and the 2014 Viper. However, both are quicker not only due to less weight but also with better aerodynamics and much wider tires (better grip). I doubt the next Mustang will meet all of those things which it will have to in order to be quicker with less HP. ;-)



Although this info sounds very interesting I would argue that your company should be building parts for replacement under warranties for quite some time forward. Doesn't Ford have to offer replacement parts for 5 to 10 years? Just because the car or the engine isn't offered anymore doesn't mean parts won't keep getting produced for a while longer.

The conversation was about whether the engine would continue to be produced after M.Y. 2014. Service parts are available.

 

[DrTriton]

I read that post as it's the final shipment to the plant, not as the final production ever. I'm assuming the spare parts wouldn't be kept there?

We build to order. Service parts are stocked at Ford's warehouse.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

The 5.8L is done. Remeo isn't building them anymore after the 2014 GT500.

How do I know this? From a reliable source who actually works at the plant. Don't hold your breath for 400+ pound savings on the S550 either.

 

[Tob]

Except in durability. Turbo cars don't seem to have near the durability that supercharged ones do. Especially when modified.

I have to disagree with the above statement. Witness the durability testing done on the Ecoboost engines. Heck, diesel or not, look at any turbocharged Navistar, Allison, or Cummins engine. Turbocharging them doesn't diminish their longevity...

 

[USV8PWR]

The 5.8L is done. Remeo isn't building them anymore after the 2014 GT500.

How do I know this? From a reliable source who actually works at the plant. Don't hold your breath for 400+ pound savings on the S550 either.

Great info! And although I have no source at Ford, a month or so ago I was one of the first on here to say that shedding 400+ lbs from the current Mustang was a dream. Using only logic as well as the current vehicle techology and/or current automobiles in production I said it wasn't possible and still be what we want/need in a Mustang. Some have claimed that the Mustang could go down to around 3,400lbs or so and I brought up two examples of a current day 3,400lb car; a 2014 Chevrolet Corvette (which has only 2 seats) and a 2014 Hyundai Genesis Coupe base 4 cylinder model (which does have 4 seats but no V8 engines). Even the Genesis Coupe quickly rises to 3,600+ lbs when fully loaded options and a V6 and other track equipment. I've said it before, and I will say it again; I doubt the next Mustang will be the equivalent of a 2014 Chevrolet Corvette and I seriously hope it is NOT the equivalent of a 2014 Genesis Coupe.

Obviously the new Mustang will be somewhat lighter, because it will be smaller. But with smaller comes narrower tires too. I do not think we will be getting the wider tires we have always hoped for on the Mustang, and why would they? When Ford will probably limit HP on the next gen to 550 to 600HP. So I also believe the next gen one being quicker than the current Shelby to be a dream as well. Time will tell I guess.

I have to disagree with the above statement. Witness the durability testing done on the Ecoboost engines. Heck, diesel or not, look at any turbocharged Navistar, Allison, or Cummins engine. Turbocharging them doesn't diminish their longevity...

Okay, except for a low RPM diesel engine, I do not think of turbo gasoline engines having exceptional reliablity/durability. And certainly not when modified. I certainly don't think of reliability when I think of a German turbocharged engine. And they are arguably the best at designing and building those engines. Also, I can't think of any V8 turbocharged gasoline engine, production or built by a well known company such as Ligenfelter or Calloway, that has been reliable either. Although there are plenty of Ecoboosts out there with some high miles on them, I guess time will tell how they hold up overall or if they run into more maintance costs later down the road. Maybe Ford has cracked the code for building a reliable turbocharged engine now? At any rate, I skipped the ecoboost option on my 2013 F-150 Crew Cab XLT 4x4 and went with the 6.2L instead. Great engine and even with max trailer tow and offroad pkgs I average a respectable 15MPG.

 

[evil eye]

We build to order. Service parts are stocked at Ford's warehouse.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[evil eye]

The 5.8L is done. Remeo isn't building them anymore after the 2014 GT500.

How do I know this? From a reliable source who actually works at the plant. Don't hold your breath for 400+ pound savings on the S550 either.

Also good to know!

 

[conceptmachine]

hasn't it been mentioned that the weight reduction is 200 lbs? I know it was supposed to be 400, but since read 200....about where I was expecting it. 400 was wishful thinking...but would have been cool to see.