I say go F1A, first if they're set-up properly the can be rather good down low, no not like a roots/twin-screw but still good. Also torque is fun but I would rather have traction, blowing the tires off every time you give it some gas gets rather annoying after awhile.
Pro's and con's of a Kenny Bell -VS- F1A
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the F1s are in turbo territory price wise and come with less stuff. if you dont have the coin now i would just wait a bit and do it right. it is the most effective setup and is fully adjustabe once you have the boost controller. i would recomend the HP kit which im running and couldnt be happir with the product, power, and customer service.
also you gotta think about the fact that you wouldnt need your current or aftermarket headers or mid pipe because they are party of the kit. with the twin 57s you could put down 800rwhp and equal torque on 15psi. show me that kind of efficiency with a centri or roots.
Paul is hitting the nail on the head. Honestly it's almost becoming more money efficient when your starting fresh to just go with TT setup. They send just about everything you need with the kits. In the end, it's lightyears more efficient.longrodLX said:
LOL..... Anyways, I dont know WTF to do. Its gonna be a month or so before I do anything, so that gives me alittle time to think about this. I still want to hear more comments from everyone though.
just wait....im going out to the races this sunday and i will show what 9 psi with turbos on my stock block 2V will do to these cobras and hopefully i can find a centri car to. i completely destroyed a lambo gllardo or murcialaggo(smaller one) on the freeway yesterday
longrodLX said:
Keep us posted...
Yes definitly let us know...
Helion turbo!!!!
FordRacing200
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Thats funny because MM&FF had a feature article awhile back on the F1A and revving it beyond 6k made it slower, it was faster at 6k then at 7500rpm50_Dave said:
turbo is the way to go.... your take off isnt blowing the tires off the car, and when it hits.... you will pull on KB/Whipples with EASE, and a centri just never has a chance.
Twin turbo keeps your lag to a very minimum, and will give you GREAT results.
as for heat soaking (because a lot of people are concerned about this...)
proper placement of turbo, proper intercooler sizing/placement, wrap or spray the piping... and you're looking at minimal heatsoak (definately no more than a KB/Whipple would get in the same time span).
Turbo's are torque monsters for the simple fact that they have a good deal of back pressure. if they had none, you'd be getting no torque like you are.
properly sized/placed turbos with properly sized intercooler and piping wrapped or sprayed... you will have an AMAZING car. you will be saying "Z06? what Z06?!? that spec back there?!?!? you're shittin me! I NEVER SAW A Z06! lemme slow down and let him catch up!!" :thumbsup:
Twin turbo keeps your lag to a very minimum, and will give you GREAT results.
as for heat soaking (because a lot of people are concerned about this...)
proper placement of turbo, proper intercooler sizing/placement, wrap or spray the piping... and you're looking at minimal heatsoak (definately no more than a KB/Whipple would get in the same time span).
Turbo's are torque monsters for the simple fact that they have a good deal of back pressure. if they had none, you'd be getting no torque like you are.
properly sized/placed turbos with properly sized intercooler and piping wrapped or sprayed... you will have an AMAZING car. you will be saying "Z06? what Z06?!? that spec back there?!?!? you're shittin me! I NEVER SAW A Z06! lemme slow down and let him catch up!!" :thumbsup:
just about evertyhing you said is correct....except for the blowing the tires off. any car with that kind of power will blow the tires off from a stop. i blow my tires off through 3rd gear. centri would be the easiest to hook up on the street
FordRacing200 said:
You must have not read all the way down the page before you posted.
50_Dave said:
The 03/04 cams are set up to pull till 6500 which is probaly why the f1 did not do well past 6k.
I have a procharger on my vette and their has never been any other vette with a blower that has beat me with the same bolt-ons and my car is tuned safe at 470rwhp because we made oone pass at 556rwhp to see what it could do with stock internals thats why I wether procharger over roots
yeah but that doesnt tell us whether or not one is better than the other. the guy with the roots may not have been able to drive. just wait for this racing season. the twin screw style blowers are much more efficient, have better power curves and if setup properly will blow any centri out of the waterGarrett114 said:
This has all basically been said, just highlighting some points.
A roots/twin screw is a good bang for the buck item and is an easy installation. They make good power w/ awesome curves as w/ any positive displacement unit. Downsides are they run out of breath up top and severley limited in their power potential compared to whats out there.
A centri is really good for high end power as that is what they were designed to do. Running a steeper gear (ie. 3.73 or 4.10) well give you a bit more low end. But the big factor is the cams. Here you have a 4v DOHC motor that is designed to rev and its capabilites halted w/ a roots blower and cams that just fall on their face and die after ~6300RPM. A custom cam designed to hold the TQ curve long into high revs is what a centri really likes (as HP is a function of TQ at a certain RPM, the more revs and TQ the more HP). Combine that w/ steeper gears or just get a ported 01' or sullivan intake manifold all while spinning to about 7500RPM. A true beast you then have.
Then there's the turbocharger, oh the wonders. We all know they are the gods of power. A properly sized kit like the HP Twins or the Hellion single T76 are both great kits. Capable of 800rwhp when pushed and very drivable. They are more efficient than any supercharger per boost level. No belts mean less strain on the crank and no need to rev the motor insanely as w/ the centri. No need to change cams. A stock motor can handle 700rwhp RELIABLY. Power under the curve is great, not too laggy but makes up for what little there is and then some.
Save for the turbo, better in the long run as they make more power, more reliably, and all this on a STOCK MOTOR. The best bang for the buck out of all three indeed.
A roots/twin screw is a good bang for the buck item and is an easy installation. They make good power w/ awesome curves as w/ any positive displacement unit. Downsides are they run out of breath up top and severley limited in their power potential compared to whats out there.
A centri is really good for high end power as that is what they were designed to do. Running a steeper gear (ie. 3.73 or 4.10) well give you a bit more low end. But the big factor is the cams. Here you have a 4v DOHC motor that is designed to rev and its capabilites halted w/ a roots blower and cams that just fall on their face and die after ~6300RPM. A custom cam designed to hold the TQ curve long into high revs is what a centri really likes (as HP is a function of TQ at a certain RPM, the more revs and TQ the more HP). Combine that w/ steeper gears or just get a ported 01' or sullivan intake manifold all while spinning to about 7500RPM. A true beast you then have.
Then there's the turbocharger, oh the wonders. We all know they are the gods of power. A properly sized kit like the HP Twins or the Hellion single T76 are both great kits. Capable of 800rwhp when pushed and very drivable. They are more efficient than any supercharger per boost level. No belts mean less strain on the crank and no need to rev the motor insanely as w/ the centri. No need to change cams. A stock motor can handle 700rwhp RELIABLY. Power under the curve is great, not too laggy but makes up for what little there is and then some.
Save for the turbo, better in the long run as they make more power, more reliably, and all this on a STOCK MOTOR. The best bang for the buck out of all three indeed.
the eatons are more traction limited but if you own one you already know that you must either use dr or ease into the gas, the centri's are only making more hp after about 5500rpm's, so which would you rather have low-to mid range up to 5500 or top end power. the eatons don't need to be in the right gear to accelerate but the centri's would get creamed if they were in the wrong gear. a turbo would be a great choice but the cost is $$$ but the power and tq would be awesome. but for me i would just get the kb/whipple and be done with it, ease of installation would be a plus.
I say go F1a. There is no need to change cams. The cams in the '03 cobra are set to help build low/mid range torque. Which is exactly what you should do with the big F1a blower. Butcher ran his car deep into the 9's (faster than the nitrous'd KB cars) with stock cams and a stock pullied f1a blower. Everyone seems to point the finger at the centrifical blower when it comes to weak low rpm torque. Anyone that knows anything about shaping power curves needs to look at runner length. The procharger supplied sheet metal intake has runners about 2 inches long. That is in the "EXTREME" short runner range. So, shorten the runners, lose low rpms power, and gain it in high rpms. Look at the dyno graphs of procharged cars....... nothing until 5000rpms or so, then the powercurve takes off. So, a 2 inch intake runner starts to become effective at 5000rpms... Now, instead of addressing the runner length problem, they do what any terminator owner would do to increase torque..... add boost. So, here comes the small pulley, and the belt slip.... so with the slipping belt, weak low rpm torque numbers...... and a no help from ATI, the R&D owners ditched them. Nobody is addressing the problem with these blowers. In order to build more power in the low/mid range, you need to add runner length. So, ditch the factory intercooler setup, get a real intake on there (99-01 cobra intake or sullivan for race only) and keep the stock pulley on it. Run an air to air intercooler on there with a 12rib setup. Sure, it's pricey, but you can find used procharged kits in the classifieds for just over $2000, so in the end, it won't be too bad. This setup would produce power in the 700rwhp range with no slip. I almost did this instead of going turbo. Kind of wish I did sometimes.
Nice point smashedheadcat. I have an F1A that I'm going to be using in my 4v build. I called ATI to see what the spec's of the F1A are because they don't list them on the site. I was told that Tthere were only a handful of F1A's made, the rest were F1C's with a 9" volute. You basically lose alittle CFM due to the smaller volute, but thats about it.
For comparison, Jay Mingolelli runs an F1C in Renegade and make 1000+HP on an 8 rib belt. Not to shabby......
For comparison, Jay Mingolelli runs an F1C in Renegade and make 1000+HP on an 8 rib belt. Not to shabby......
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