Procharger vs. Turbo

[SpookSVT]

Single turbo all the way. No supercharger.

Twins will just get you "wow factor" IMO... Yes they may spool faster but you loose your top end. Thats why supra owners use large singles. laggish? yes, but its been proven over and over again how they pull insanely once the turbos build boost. You won't have lag them like them though because of larger displacement.

Torque output is higher than superchargers and turbos have alot more potential.

Turbos are much more reliable at the power levels you want as long as do your routine maintinence as you would any car.

You can also easily switch between high and low boost levels w/ a flip of a switch or push of a button which is a plus.

A single turbo is also better for a DD if this applies to you. Very easy to stay out of boost but there when you romp on it.

Worth the extra $$$ to me.

 

[longrodLX]

i dont think its the fact that they have singles its just the way they are geared. if it is street driven then twins all the way. singles are nice on pushrods but for a mod motor i would rather have twins and make power 700-1000 rpm sooner than the single would

 

[mysticsvt]

I did alot of research before I bought my Procharger. I honestly...still didnt do enough. Prochargers are three times more likely to brake a belt than a Vortech. Are much harder to to tune that any other power adder and make so much heat which is why they def need a intercooler. I should have vent Vortech. So I would say go turbo all the way and def do not go Procharger but if you do centrifical..go Vortech-Shane

 

[SpookSVT]

i dont think its the fact that they have singles its just the way they are geared. if it is street driven then twins all the way. singles are nice on pushrods but for a mod motor i would rather have twins and make power 700-1000 rpm sooner than the single would

Yes they are geared for top end but watch a supra video, they don't do anything for a second or two then boom, turbo is building boost and the car takes off into oblivion. A single will outflow twins at high engine RPM/vehicle speed any day.

There really isn't much lag in large singles now. Technology is catching up. Dual BB CHRA's and alloy compressors and turbines allow for much quicker spool.

I personally prefer a single for a regulary street driven car beacause its easier to stay out of boost. But when it comes to race I prefer to have the turbo spec'd towards midrange to topend power and let the large displacement of the V8 supply the lowend Torque. Cams also spec'd toward a 2500-7250RPM engine.

But to each his own I guess. Just boils down to your driving habits and where you like your power. :beer:

 

[kneedragger]

Speaking of which, I work for Mack and Volvo, their turbo's are expected to last 1,000,000 miles at a minimum. Yes that is a lot of zeros. Their turbos look no more complicated than your average turbo. (With the exception of our VGT turbo, but that's another discussion.) Proper maintenance goes a long way...

I don't believe those turbos spin as fast as street applications do.

 

[BiZ]

It's all in the size of your wallet. There are S/C motors making in excess of 1500 hp and turbo motors making the same. Turbos generally cost more due to the amount of work involved. Turbos are definietly more efficient.

 

[longrodLX]

to make a single work as efficiently as twins it will cost a lot more money. the only time i could see a single having the advantage is if i were running my car up to 180mph

 

[SpookSVT]

to make a single work as efficiently as twins it will cost a lot more money.

How can you justify this. Its more the other way around.


http://turbochargedpower.com/

^ Scroll down to TT cobra dyno chart. Quick spool and nice lowend power. Torque drops off at 4500RPM. HP curve is flat from 5500RPM-Redline. Thus showing the limited topend power.

As for a single turbo dyno chart of a 4V mod motor I havnt been able to find one if anyone has one post it please. I'm trying to compare apples w/ apples here.

 

[boosted98gt]

I don't believe those turbos spin as fast as street applications do.

The impeller shafts spins well over 100,000rpm @ full boost w/ a max of 114,000. It's actually one of the things we log and test for. :read: So they're definitely up there with the street turbo speeds. Lol.

:beer:

 

[kneedragger]

The impeller shafts spins well over 100,000rpm @ full boost w/ a max of 114,000. It's actually one of the things we log and test for. :read: So they're definitely up there with the street turbo speeds. Lol.

:beer:

"Typical operating speeds of a turbocharger are between 75,000 and 150,000 rpm."-Superchagers Online

Not quite as fast though. :read: . I've found this quote on several sites. An average at full speed on a highly boosted application, with smaller turbos is around 130,000.LOL

 

[longrodLX]

How can you justify this. Its more the other way around.


http://turbochargedpower.com/

^ Scroll down to TT cobra dyno chart. Quick spool and nice lowend power. Torque drops off at 4500RPM. HP curve is flat from 5500RPM-Redline. Thus showing the limited topend power.

As for a single turbo dyno chart of a 4V mod motor I havnt been able to find one if anyone has one post it please. I'm trying to compare apples w/ apples here.

to upgrade to ball bearing and whatever else you need to make it spool as fast as twins it would cost a lot more money. when running high boost with turbos on certain dynos you will lose load thus making the power curve flatten out. turbo power curves do not flatten out they just keep climbing similar to a centrifugal but they keep making torque. i have not seen a twin turbo cobra have any problem keeping up with single turbo supra with equal boost.

 

[boosted98gt]

"Typical operating speeds of a turbocharger are between 75,000 and 150,000 rpm."-Superchagers Online

Not quite as fast though. :read: . I've found this quote on several sites. An average at full speed on a highly boosted application, with smaller turbos is around 130,000.LOL

Yup, and with 30,000 lbs on the trailer behind them they run at full boost much more often than a street car... Especially when you consider that seeing a street car's turbo last just 200,000 miles is quite a rarity.

 

[PhillyMak]

i think as far as ease of install, and overall appearance, procharger is where its at, plus you get an incredible amount of power for the money you are spending, be prepared to replace that irs though...

 

[PhillyMak]

wow lol didnt notice this thread was 7 pages long..

 

[mysticsvt]

Like I said, I have a procharger and wish I hadnt bought it. Most of the shops will tell you that it makes 2 much heat which is why it needs a huge intercooler. Also it will brake three times more belts than a Vortech. They will also tell you that it is so much harder to tune than any other supercharger. But yes, I hear it makes a little more power-Shane

 

[PhillyMak]

go turbo if u want to win top end races and both lag pretty good. Plus major belt slippage with the procharger. and if u hate turbo lag put a lil 50 shot and it will take care of that lag. the KB and whipples are better than procharges b/c they boost superfast. so, its all up to you man

we havent had any belt problems with any prochargers we install here.. maybe whatever belt issue rumors you heard were started by faulty install. put VHT on your belt if it slips, or find a prochargere certified shop to install the kit.

we do atleast three a month here and i cant complain about belts. and atleast on the terminator motors, there isnt much lag with the f-series blowers. anyway if you encounter boost lag issues, its nothing a little bottle cant cure.

 

[eleanorsvtcobra]

i just got a catelog from the procharger manufactures for the 4v setup and they run from 4100 and up. im sure you could find em cheaper at a procharger distributor.

 

[SpookSVT]

to upgrade to ball bearing and whatever else you need to make it spool as fast as twins it would cost a lot more money.

How much is a lot? I've found GT42R-76 DBB turbos for 1400, about the price of twin 57 or 60 Trim T3/T04E's. Both are Garrett turbos.

I'm not saying it will spool as fast as twins, Physics says they can't. It will spool about 400 or so RPM's faster, leaving you w/ about a 400-600 RPM window of more more lag than twins but hauls ass in the midrange to top end.

Also, you have to take into affect that twins have much smaller Turbine housings and A/R's to spool faster thus limiting potential top end. You would have to use larger Turbine housings to take full potential of the compressors which would loose the faster spooling characteristics of twins. A large single w/ large A/R Tubine and wheel will take full potential of a much larger compressor, pending size they have greater CFM flow.

As for lag, thats nothing a little giggle juice won't cure. ;-)

 

[longrodLX]

same thing goes for top end if your going to use juice. i just think twins are a lot more effective on the street

 

[SpookSVT]

same thing goes for top end if your going to use juice. i just think twins are a lot more effective on the street

Also depends on what power output your looking for. If you want 500-600 whp, a smaller T66 will supply that efficiently. It is smaller and will have better spooling characteristics while providing your set power level.

It's all about sizing and compromise.

Large amounts of lag come into play when you start to really go BIG. Thats where a small shot will suffiece while racing.