Police shooting of Daniel Shaver

[Corbic]

Additionally the victim in no way presented any hostile actions, combative, disrespectful or noncompliant behavior.

This was not a scene right after an altercation, fight or act of aggression.

They stopped the guy with a girl exiting their hotel room. They shot him because he fell over or tried to grab his gym shorts.

He was not some “f the police and your authority” dumbass thug, he was not some nut job looking to commit suicide. He was a drunk, terrified fool.

Anyone saying he should have obeyed orders better, would you want to be drunk and have that asshole cop put a gun to your head?


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[M240Bravo]

Have you ever been shot at or shot?

YES



Do you deal with crazies for a living?


YES




Have you ever had lethal force training?


YES


[/QUOTE

Note to not come down to plattsmouth because you need to get home and you have no problem murdering someone so you can go home.


Let me put a rifle in your face and yell at you and if you don't listen to one step in what I say. I shoot you.

 

[SID297]

Have you ever been shot at or shot? Do you deal with crazies for a living? Have you ever had lethal force training? Anyways. Call comes in, armed subjects, please respond. Armed and Dangerous. Be prepared. That is what law enforcement does every day. It is easy to judge when your not the one in the scenario. How many times do officers hesitate and die in the line of duty? Too many. Cowards? Please. Anyways. I don't want to start a war. Moderator can take my post off if it will hurt to many feelings.

I have not been in that situation. However, I do know the difference between an excuse and justification. In this instance lethal force was certainly not justified.

Also, you need to be careful making arguments like "Have you ever been shot at or shot? Do you deal with crazies for a living? Have you ever had lethal force training?" I could go a couple different ways with that.

1. I could say that a LEO that has experienced those things should have been able to see that there was no real threat there.

2. I could say that a LEO that has experienced those things is traumatized and unfit for duty.

3. I could say that a LEO that has experienced those things was on edge and acted out of nervousness and heightened tension, which is the definition of voluntary manslaughter.

 

[gimmie11s]

I take the opposite view. IMO, LEOs are to be held to a higher standard than the average citizen when it comes to use of force (and many other aspects of conduct) due to training and qualified immunity. The subject appeared to be wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt, a concealed weapon (if there had been one) should have been fairly visible to the officers when he was on his stomach. The LEO never saw a weapon and at the end of the day simply killed someone who was scared and confused. Allowing someone in a position of power to walk free from consequences (beyond being fired) based on the facts here is very dangerous for a free society.

As for needing "to make sure we make it home at the end of the day", the guy that was killed probably felt the same way. An officer, much like a firefighter or soldier, has a duty to put themselves in harm's way for the better of the populace. To make sure that someone else can make it home even if it means they can't. That's why we celebrate them as heroes. If making it home at the end of the day is your (not speaking about @kcobra specifically here) priority you should be an accountant, that way when a mistake is made it can be fixed with some White-Out and someone isn't left bleeding out in a hallway.

Best post I've read in months.

100% on the money in all aspects.

I like the "hero" comments and higher standards by which these people should conduct themselves.


Tragic for the man who was shot and his family.

 

[GNBRETT]

yep several times..... yep every day..... yes I've had all types of training and instruct myself...... anyways.

the only thing worse then a Cop doing this is another Cop trying to defend the actions of a trigger happy yahoo who kills an unarmed civilian who did nothing but try to follow ones moronic and unclear instructions....

That was the Dumbest thing I've ever seen a Cop do I seen lots of dumb things over the last 22 years. his instructions would confuse anyone and he gave several different instructions. what a MORON!

HE gives the rest of LE a black eye and when ppl see that they have ZERO trust in LE. **** him!

the dude complied 100%. douchebags like that have no place in LE or the Military for that matter and when they get fancy weapons like that their jus itching to use them like this coward did.

I would assume a civil case ensued from the family and the town or city will pay millions. a acquittal of Murder don't mean shit! jus ask OJ Simpson. the burden in a civil case is very low.

Have you ever been shot at or shot? Do you deal with crazies for a living? Have you ever had lethal force training? Anyways. Call comes in, armed subjects, please respond. Armed and Dangerous. Be prepared. That is what law enforcement does every day. It is easy to judge when your not the one in the scenario. How many times do officers hesitate and die in the line of duty? Too many. Cowards? Please. Anyways. I don't want to start a war. Moderator can take my post off if it will hurt to many feelings.

 

[GNBRETT]

Dont confuse "Getting Hurt on the job" vs. being Murdered where u work. apples to oranges bro..... little Mayberry towns which make up most of Law Enforcement aint city Police.

Yet, statistically, being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs you could possibly have.

 

[Rare40th]

The video is definitely conflicting as the officer is giving commands but not as smooth as I've heard/seen before, fairly bad. Especially judging the guys body language each time he moved to commands. And there's definitely better steps I feel that could've been taken to possibly subdue and arrest the guy without harm. Another officer on the other side of the hall waiting for him to walk out and arrest from behind? Or holding him to gun point while an officer subdues and cuffs?

However its an armed and dangerous call, I'm sure the officers are on high alert. Regardless if it's a toy gun or not. And nowhere in the video did I see much exposure of the guys stomach or back, which indicates to me the officer may or may not have had much sight of a concealed weapon. Then his reaction to reach around to his back was a big no no, it looked fairly clear like he was reaching for a weapon with that motion. So both ways already have their points about how bad in general this was going to go.

If the officer was acquitted then that says all there is about what happened. Him being fired is just protecting the department from criticism. And either way he's the only one with guilt knowing whether if he was right or wrong in his justification.

In my own opinion by all means, officers are to be held to a higher standard. But given there's roughly 700k LEO's compared to 320 million citizens. I think it's a bit much to say they don't have their hands full with their jobs every day. On average in a year there's like 120 million 9/11 calls, of which this year 920+/- citizens have been killed by LEO's. Of which 61 were unarmed compared to 720-730 that were armed with a weapon. In comparison to 60ish officers that were killed by citizens with weapons out of 122 total officer deaths. So numbers wise I think it's fair that officers are doing a damn good job. @kcobra

 

[hoamskilet]

I'm usually pretty quick to side with LEO's, but man....that was pretty bad

 

[SID297]

Dont confuse "Getting Hurt on the job" vs. being Murdered where u work. apples to oranges bro..... little Mayberry towns which make up most of Law Enforcement aint city Police.

That's one of the reasons I have so much respect for our local Horry County cops. They cover a little bit of everything (farms, beach, subdivisions, ghettos, swamps, etc) and in my experience do it with professionalism and courtesy.

The video is definitely conflicting as the officer is giving commands but not as smooth as I've heard/seen before, fairly bad. Especially judging the guys body language each time he moved to commands. And there's definitely better steps I feel that could've been taken to possibly subdue and arrest the guy without harm. Another officer on the other side of the hall waiting for him to walk out and arrest from behind? Or holding him to gun point while an officer subdues and cuffs?

However its an armed and dangerous call, I'm sure the officers are on high alert. Regardless if it's a toy gun or not. And nowhere in the video did I see much exposure of the guys stomach or back, which indicates to me the officer may or may not have had much sight of a concealed weapon. Then his reaction to reach around to his back was a big no no, it looked fairly clear like he was reaching for a weapon with that motion. So both ways already have their points about how bad in general this was going to go.

If the officer was acquitted then that says all there is about what happened. Him being fired is just protecting the department from criticism. And either way he's the only one with guilt knowing whether if he was right or wrong in his justification.

In my own opinion by all means, officers are to be held to a higher standard. But given there's roughly 700k LEO's compared to 320 million citizens. I think it's a bit much to say they don't have their hands full with their jobs every day. On average in a year there's like 120 million 9/11 calls, of which this year 920+/- citizens have been killed by LEO's. Of which 61 were unarmed compared to 720-730 that were armed with a weapon. In comparison to 60ish officers that were killed by citizens with weapons out of 122 total officer deaths. So numbers wise I think it's fair that officers are doing a damn good job. @kcobra

The problem is that the officer never saw a weapon.

 

[RedRocketMike]

Disappointing and Pathetic. If this guy was black, holy shit, look out.

 

[GNBRETT]

cops tend to get salty when they work in an environment that primarily deals with scumbags. the County Police tend to be a little more well rounded but they also deal with a lot of decent people.

im not saying all ppl are bad in the cities but ur Murders, Robberies, Car jackings, shootings, stolen cars etc.... primarily happen in the cities and cops are human and tend to see the worse in ppl vs. the best but true Professionals rise above it but lets be honest Law Enforcement has its 10% that don't belong there just like in every other profession.

THIS jackass thinking he's Rambo and killing an unarmed man for nothing is no exception to that 10% rule.

That's one of the reasons I have so much respect for our local Horry County cops. They cover a little bit of everything (farms, beach, subdivisions, ghettos, swamps, etc) and in my experience do it with professionalism and courtesy.

 

[RedRocketMike]

We are overlooking another crime in this video. That carpet pattern in the hallways, terrible.

 

[Blk04L]

Should be in jail.


Jesus, you would think they were trying to arrest a Top 10 most wanted FBI criminal there.

 

[speeddemon2000]

Definitely murder. He shot an unarmed guy in shorts and a t-shirt no shoes crawling on the ground. You have multiple cops in full tactical gear all wearing body Armour and helmets. The cops clearly escalated the situation needlessly. They could have easily had another officer cuff the suspect while he was providing cover once the suspect was prone. Having the suspect craw towards the officer was the craziest thing I have seen. I am all for supporting Law enforcement, I am all for them shooting the shit out of criminals with weapons, but when there is someone that's not breaking the law, is clearly intoxicated and having problems following orders and you shoot them. That's murder. There seems to be this pervasive thought in law enforcement that a LEOs life is more important than a civilian's life. It should actually be the other way around. That's were the serve part in protect and serve comes in. If they can't accept that risk then they should seek another job.

 

[Ninjak]

I usually do not talk on this subject, but to answer one of the people questions in here, the answer is yes yes yes on a federal level. Over my years when I did that job I dealt with the biggest scumbags in and out of the country.

Its simple. This guy has the "I'm going to go home" mentality. He also has a authority complex. He may be team leader or what not, but you can hear him barking orders to the other officers as if they do not know what to do. There are six officers in full tactical. SIX. There two SUSPECTED suspects. Clearly in the hall, clearly present. One suspect has a purse, the other is in shorts T-shirt, and NO SHOES. Please please tell me as he is on his stomach how you cannot see a CLEAR VIEW OF HIS BACK. Any weapon he could carry would literally be up against his skin in his BACK. What weapon could you carry concealed in the side of your shorts that probably would have fell out when he got on the floor.

Now your barking multiple conflicting orders to someone that if you would have taking the time to listen is drunk. After you threaten several time to KILL the suspect you can clearly hear the FEAR in his voice. All of this made up he's faking is just that. As a LEO you should be able to see and tell the difference. Its part of your job is part of your training. But when your trying to be billy bad ass this is how you act. I get upset just watching this travesty.

This is not over. Yes he was fired. But know if that man has any family, any brothers or people who see's this as what it is, this is not over. I have seen it many times. Its not going to just go away. Be ready to hear more bad news about this.

 

[blackfang]

As a former LEO in a military capacity and also worked with the Dept Of State I am shocked and would have easily convicted this. Sometimes you have to take into consideration the situation, the area and how we are coming across to people and their perception of what is going on. I mean you can tell the kid is scared and may have been drinking by his speech. What a confusing set of commands to give someone to follow. Also why mind**** the subject by playing twister? Having a subject kneel and crawl to them while on their knees? Really? That is one of the dumbest methods I have seen. No wonder he was shot. He could have used his partner to advance and search while he covered them or you have the subject slowly walk to him with his hands up high.

I understand the job can be uneasy at times due to the unknown and you want to make it home, but damn that is a prime example of what not to do. The subject clearly was not armed. Look at what he is wearing and that he was proned out. If he had a concealed weapon, you would have seen it. I also see a lawsuit coming as well.

 

[RedRocketMike]

It's tough, what would putting this cop in jail accomplish? Someone hired him for this position. If a person who is isn't trained properly or has a complex/flawed character which prevents them from doing a job correctly is doing X job, should they be held fully accountable for not doing their job correctly? Isn't this like hiring a legally blind guy to drive a taxi cab?

I'm playing the other side of this, I don't believe he isn't in anyway accountable. I just don't see the primary focus (sentencing) having any logical impact on what should be the objective, preventing this from occurring again elsewhere.

 

[GNBRETT]

The problem with that mentality is almost all of those Cops that should have never been hired only comes out in high stress situations like this. its impossible to train for the "Real thing".

The real thing happens when the real thing happens so hiring him wasn't the problem. Its the psychological exam that he passed that needs examining.

Again, these type of situations don't happen very often so many incompetent Cops skills or lack up surface when these events occur.

He is held to a higher standard which gives him the authority to order people around and when doing so he also holds the responsibility of using his firearm in a safe and justifiable manner and his decisions were very played out and fluid. this wasn't an "Oh Shit" moment.

This was calculated so yes he should be held accountable and yes he should go to jail. he ****ing killed a dude over nothing smfh. willingly and knowingly and quite calm actually which is even more disturbing.

It's tough, what would putting this cop in jail accomplish? Someone hired him for this position. If a person who is isn't trained properly or has a complex/flawed character which prevents them from doing a job correctly is doing X job, should they be held fully accountable for not doing their job correctly? Isn't this like hiring a legally blind guy to drive a taxi cab?

I'm playing the other side of this, I don't believe he isn't in anyway accountable. I just don't see the primary focus (sentencing) having any logical impact on what should be the objective, preventing this from occurring again elsewhere.

 

[GT Premi]

It's tough, what would putting this cop in jail accomplish? ...

It would send the message that when you screw up like this, you will pay the consequences. That would lead to it not happening so often.

Dont confuse "Getting Hurt on the job" vs. being Murdered where u work. apples to oranges bro..... little Mayberry towns which make up most of Law Enforcement aint city Police.

I wasn't talking about getting hurt on the job. Look up the statistics. When it comes to deaths on the job, being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs you can have.

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[98 Saleen Cobra]

Wow that was hard to watch.. I didn't think it would be but it was.. Person was clearly scared as all hell .. Jeez.