Police shooting of Daniel Shaver

[black4vcobra]

I'm surprised that there isn't a thread about this but who has read about this case and viewed the video?

It seems like this was a terrible misunderstanding and could totally have been prevented. I am neither a cop basher or a blinded cop supporter, I look at each case individually but it sure seems like the police acted poorly in this situation instructing him to crawl towards them and providing confusing instructions in the process. Yes he reached backwards but it is nearly impossible to smoothly crawl on your hands and knees with your legs crossed much less with 6 guns pointed at you and people barking orders.

What do you guys think? Is this murder or a terrible series of mistakes? Of course having "You're ****ed" engraved in the dust cover of a rifle is a bad look for the officer.

 

[jeffh81]

He was acquitted of murder charges and fired from his pd

 

[SID297]

I would have likely voted to convict.

 

[Blown 89]

A) If you don't want to get shot keep your hands away from where you'd be carrying an IWB firearm

B) The never ending game of Simon Says that officer was playing was ridiculous and wasn't going to end well. After reading the description of events I was fully expecting to watch the video and side with the police but after a few minutes of hearing this POS barking order after order after order it was clear this guy was totally inept. Both parties are at fault here IMO

 

[BlckBox04]

another excellent wtf moment from our lovely society

 

[jconnor3]

That kid was terrified. He did do exactly what the cop said NOT to do, but barking instructions like that seemed a little ridiculous and I could see being confused/flustered I guess.

 

[mc01svt]

the guy was half drunk from what i understand. Its no wonder he was disoriented, confused and couldn't play simon says.

I am uncomfortable with his whole notion that not following an officers commands to the T is a cause for instant death. Is this america or a 3rd world conflict zone?

 

[Ninjak]

Use of force. Its quite apparent that was tossed out the window. It could have been handles so many other ways. Its obvious what happened, and he should have been convicted.

 

[Snagged]

Looks like the video is down or just not a popular host site I can't get at work.

 

[GT Premi]

...
I am uncomfortable with his whole notion that not following an officers commands to the T is a cause for instant death. Is this america or a 3rd world conflict zone?

This country hasn't been the same since 9/11. Most walk around scared of everybody else's shadows. The terrorists won.

It used to be cops would at least wait until they actually see something in a perp's hand. Now they just shoot just because they felt nervous. Blame the "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" crowd.

 

[kcobra]

At first, seeing the video on my phone, I thought, a bit harsh. When I saw it where I noticed the subject reach back again after being instructed not to, the shooting was justified. As a law enforcement officer, we need to make sure we make it home at the end of the day. Follow instructions and nobody will get hurt. Yes, it was confusing, but there was absolutely no reason for the guy to reach to his back again when he was crawling towards the officers. Officers deal with this stuff all the time. Some people are desperate and can try to fool the officers and want to either die by suicide by cop, or they want to kill you.

 

[tistan]

I would have convicted the cop.

 

[tones_RS3]

A) If you don't want to get shot keep your hands away from where you'd be carrying an IWB firearm
B) The never ending game of Simon Says that officer was playing was ridiculous and wasn't going to end well. After reading the description of events I was fully expecting to watch the video and side with the police but after a few minutes of hearing this POS barking order after order after order it was clear this guy was totally inept. Both parties are at fault here IMO

^Exactly.

I mean, the dude was waving a gun out the window to begin with, so the police have to use caution and don't know what's going on or if they are going to be ambushed.
But then again, the way officer was playing the Simon Says instructions over and over and over, was a little much in my opinion. Dude was drunk and definitely scared out of his wits which doesn't make for a good outcome.
(Video was pretty brutal. I'm surprised that it was left up on Youtube.)

 

[SID297]

At first, seeing the video on my phone, I thought, a bit harsh. When I saw it where I noticed the subject reach back again after being instructed not to, the shooting was justified. As a law enforcement officer, we need to make sure we make it home at the end of the day. Follow instructions and nobody will get hurt. Yes, it was confusing, but there was absolutely no reason for the guy to reach to his back again when he was crawling towards the officers. Officers deal with this stuff all the time. Some people are desperate and can try to fool the officers and want to either die by suicide by cop, or they want to kill you.

I take the opposite view. IMO, LEOs are to be held to a higher standard than the average citizen when it comes to use of force (and many other aspects of conduct) due to training and qualified immunity. The subject appeared to be wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt, a concealed weapon (if there had been one) should have been fairly visible to the officers when he was on his stomach. The LEO never saw a weapon and at the end of the day simply killed someone who was scared and confused. Allowing someone in a position of power to walk free from consequences (beyond being fired) based on the facts here is very dangerous for a free society.

As for needing "to make sure we make it home at the end of the day", the guy that was killed probably felt the same way. An officer, much like a firefighter or soldier, has a duty to put themselves in harm's way for the better of the populace. To make sure that someone else can make it home even if it means they can't. That's why we celebrate them as heroes. If making it home at the end of the day is your (not speaking about @kcobra specifically here) priority you should be an accountant, that way when a mistake is made it can be fixed with some White-Out and someone isn't left bleeding out in a hallway.

 

[Weather Man]

The guy in MN and this guy are damn lucky they got off.

 

[GT Premi]

At first, seeing the video on my phone, I thought, a bit harsh. When I saw it where I noticed the subject reach back again after being instructed not to, the shooting was justified. As a law enforcement officer, we need to make sure we make it home at the end of the day. Follow instructions and nobody will get hurt. Yes, it was confusing, but there was absolutely no reason for the guy to reach to his back again when he was crawling towards the officers. Officers deal with this stuff all the time. Some people are desperate and can try to fool the officers and want to either die by suicide by cop, or they want to kill you.

If the shooting was justified, the cop wouldn't have been fired. Those were some of the most confusing commands I've ever seen. It reminds me of basic training when drill sergeants wanted to just **** with the recruits to get them to mess up. That (ex) cop needs to be brought up on charges. The guy could've had a bad back, and all those crazy commands could have been aggravating it and caused him to reach back. It may have been a simple natural reaction.

I take the opposite view. IMO, LEOs are to be held to a higher standard than the average citizen when it comes to use of force (and many other aspects of conduct) due to training and qualified immunity. The subject appeared to be wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt, a concealed weapon (if there had been one) should have been fairly visible to the officers when he was on his stomach. The LEO never saw a weapon and at the end of the day simply killed someone who was scared and confused. Allowing someone in a position of power to walk free from consequences (beyond being fired) based on the facts here is very dangerous for a free society.

As for needing "to make sure we make it home at the end of the day", the guy that was killed probably felt the same way. An officer, much like a firefighter or soldier, has a duty to put themselves in harm's way for the better of the populace. To make sure that someone else can make it home even if it means they can't. That's why we celebrate them as heroes. If making it home at the end of the day is your (not speaking about @kcobra specifically here) priority you should be an accountant, that way when a mistake is made it can be fixed with some White-Out and someone isn't left bleeding out in a hallway.

^^^This! OMG this!! Every word. If you're scared for your life, you don't need to be in a position where 1) you could be called to put your life on the line or 2) be called to protect others. Cowards don't make good protectors. Cowards get other people killed. Every time.

 

[kcobra]

Have you ever been shot at or shot? Do you deal with crazies for a living? Have you ever had lethal force training? Anyways. Call comes in, armed subjects, please respond. Armed and Dangerous. Be prepared. That is what law enforcement does every day. It is easy to judge when your not the one in the scenario. How many times do officers hesitate and die in the line of duty? Too many. Cowards? Please. Anyways. I don't want to start a war. Moderator can take my post off if it will hurt to many feelings.

 

[GT Premi]

Yet, statistically, being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs you could possibly have.

 

[2KBlackGT]

Man, if I EVER (which i doubt will happen) find myself in a situation where the police have their weapons drawn on me I'm freezing. They going to have to come cuff me cause I'm laying there with my arms and legs spread and not moving period.

 

[Corbic]

Have you ever been shot at or shot? Do you deal with crazies for a living? Have you ever had lethal force training? Anyways. Call comes in, armed subjects, please respond. Armed and Dangerous. Be prepared. That is what law enforcement does every day. It is easy to judge when your not the one in the scenario. How many times do officers hesitate and die in the line of duty? Too many. Cowards? Please. Anyways. I don't want to start a war. Moderator can take my post off if it will hurt to many feelings.

How was the officer in any danger?

The video is only half the story. That poor drunk bastard had been on his knees for 20 minutes as they had the girl that left the room already crawl over to them and hand cuffed.

He was clearly terrified and unarmed. The cops where in defense positions, wearing swat gear armed with AR-15s. The killer cop’s AR even had “Your ****ed” etched in it.

Hardly the bastion of heroics and nobility. More like the HS bully looking to have people “respect his authority” and didn’t have the balls to join the military.

We expect more from MPs and soldiers fighting overseas when it comes to identifying hostile combatants and engaging unarmed civilians.

Turns out the guy was just a drunk exterminator that was playing with a pellet gun.


As for hot calls, it’s 2017, cops should be prepared for bogus calls like the infamous “swatting” shit that’s been going on for years now.