Police shooting of Daniel Shaver

[GT Premi]

Man, if I EVER (which i doubt will happen) find myself in a situation where the police have their weapons drawn on me I'm freezing. They going to have to come cuff me cause I'm laying there with my arms and legs spread and not moving period.

That doesn't work, either. Remember the guy in Florida who the cop shot as he was laying flat on his back with his arms over his head? It is simply unsafe to be anywhere near a cop when their gun is drawn. It's getting to the point where it's unsafe to even be around cops, period. They're WAY too prone to escalating a situation needlessly.

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[MFE]

Yet, statistically, being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs you could possibly have.

I think this shooting was an inexcusable travesty bordering on murder, perpetrated by an overcompensating twink, enabled by a power-tripping napoleon, but I can't stop myself from calling bullshit when I see it. Since when does an occupational fatality rate 3x the average constitute "one of the safest jobs you could possibly have"?

 

[RedRocketMike]

It would send the message that when you screw up like this, you will pay the consequences. That would lead to it not happening so often.

He should be in jail. But in these adrenaline filled situations I think a lack of training/flawed personality will prevail over the memory of some guy going to jail. The real conversation to have is about a root cause but everyone is talking about the outcome. GNBRETT made a very good point, it's rare to be in a situation that brings out the worst.

The body cams have probably been a big help, but as we keep seeing, poor instincts and personality traits rise to the top.

 

[TBCobra]

Dude got away with murder.

 

[GT Premi]

... Since when does an occupational fatality rate 3x the average...

That's not even remotely true, though. I don't know where you read/heard that, but here are the comparative numbers. Skip down to page 9 of this document. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

There are more farmers killed on the job each year than cops. That particular document doesn't break it down this far, but if you subtract out traffic fatalities (which are by far the leading cause) or other self-inflicted or non-homicide deaths, the fatality rate for cops on the job plummets. This link breaks it down even more. https://fee.org/articles/by-the-numbers-how-dangerous-is-it-to-be-a-cop/

So I stand behind my comment that being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs to have.

 

[RedRocketMike]

Safe, depending on where you do it.

 

[Sinister04L]

This video should be used by departments to show how NOT to engage a suspect. What a moron.

 

[SirShaun]

6 Months of paramilitary training and you too, can get your license to kill.

I think the entry level to becoming an officer needs to be raised. Too many ass hats with guns "ensuring" my safety these days. This guy had no composure under pressure, finger shouldn't of even been on the bang switch.

If you want to militarize the police force, hire veterans. This guy should of never been on a no knock crew.

 

[GNBRETT]

I also hear Crab Fishing is one the most Dangerous Jobs on the Planet. It aint dangerous for the Capt. running the shit sitting behind the wheel tho is it? its dangerous for those who work in an environment conducive to Death so ur "Statistics" don't mean dick.

maybe u should find a local City Police Dept and go for a ride along and then tell me how "Safe" being a cop is. u sound Ignorant bro....

how many of these people that get "Hurt" on the job have to worry every night about being Murdered? how many? yea exactly..... virtually none other then corner store owners that work in the Ghetto.

I wasn't talking about getting hurt on the job. Look up the statistics. When it comes to deaths on the job, being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs you can have.

 

[GT Premi]

I also hear Crab Fishing is one the most Dangerous Jobs on the Planet. It aint dangerous for the Capt. running the shit sitting behind the wheel tho is it? its dangerous for those who work in an environment conducive to Death so ur "Statistics" don't mean dick.

maybe u should find a local City Police Dept and go for a ride along and then tell me how "Safe" being a cop is. u sound Ignorant bro....

how many of these people that get "Hurt" on the job have to worry every night about being Murdered? how many? yea exactly..... visually none other then corner store owners that work in the Ghetto.

Your emotion about it doesn't change the fact that being a cop is one of the safest jobs to have. Worrying about not going home at night is a byproduct of cowardice, not actual danger. When I was in the Army, I was stationed in a few locations where the people didn't really want the U.S. military in their country. Riots by dissidents happened frequently. Had to go on riot patrol a couple of times. Want to know how many times I was concerned about not making it home that night? Zero. It's part of the frickin' job I signed up for! If making it home at night is their only concern, then maybe they should get a job in sales or something. Oh, wait. There are more salespeople killed on the job than cops. Maybe they should find something that would let them work from home. That way they don't have to worry about making home, they'll already be there!

 

[MFE]

That's not even remotely true, though. I don't know where you read/heard that, but here are the comparative numbers. Skip down to page 9 of this document. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

That's just one year in isolation. Granted, so is this, but you asked where I got my info

 

[GT Premi]

That's just one year in isolation. Granted, so is this, but you asked where I got my info

View attachment 1450850

Ok. I see how you came to that conclusion. However, you misinterpreted the data. The "All Workers" average includes police officers, everybody else represented on that chart, and everybody not represented on that chart. So you can't extrapolate that being a cop is 3x more dangerous than the average. Not to mention, numbers get wildly skewed when looking at per capita.

 

[Smooth]

They could have easily had another officer cuff the suspect while he was providing cover once the suspect was prone. Having the suspect craw towards the officer was the craziest thing I have seen.

The room they came out of was at the end of the corridor and had not been cleared. My understanding is that they were both ordered to crawl further down the corridor away from the room to help mitigate the situation.

 

[MFE]

Ok. I see how you came to that conclusion. However, you misinterpreted the data. The "All Workers" average includes police officers, everybody else represented on that chart, and everybody not represented on that chart. So you can't extrapolate that being a cop is 3x more dangerous than the average. Not to mention, numbers get wildly skewed when looking at per capita.

It's not an extrapolation. The cop rate is about 3x the rate of the average worker, period. Of course average includes all the occupations not shown in the graph, that's the entire point. Because there are so many occupations and so many of them are safer than the ones shown. So you might be able to get away with saying being a cop is one of the safest of the 20 most dangerous occupations, but you cannot say that being a cop is one of the safest of ALL occupations. It's still 3x more deadly than the average occupation...that year.

Furthermore, per capita is a great apples-to-apples equalizer.

BTW I live with statistics every day so please don't preach to me about misinterpreting.

 

[GT Premi]

It's not an extrapolation. The cop rate is about 3x the rate of the average worker, period. Of course average includes all the occupations not shown in the graph, that's the entire point. Because there are so many occupations and so many of them are safer than the ones shown. So you might be able to get away with saying being a cop is one of the safest of the 20 most dangerous occupations, but you cannot say that being a cop is one of the safest of ALL occupations. It's still 3x more deadly than the average occupation...that year.

Furthermore, per capita is a great apples-to-apples equalizer.

BTW I live with statistics every day so please don't preach to me about misinterpreting.

I wasn't preaching to you about misinterpreting, but you're still misinterpreting the data. Or you're intentionally trying to misrepresent it.

 

[GNBRETT]

so now Cops are "Cowards" cause they fear that there are many people out there that want them DEAD simply because of their profession and nothing else? smh wow dude u have reached new depths of ignorance here congrats!

so once u were in the Army and couple times u had to go out on Patrol with full Body armor including a helmet and an assault rifle with probably 20-30 other dudes due to riots and THAT makes u a Hero? lmao....

Another arm-chair quarterback who has never really been in a dangerous situation but because he joined the Army that makes him experienced and knowledgeable to the dangerous of Police work...... that makes me LOL literally!

Stick with "Call of Duty" bro.....

Your emotion about it doesn't change the fact that being a cop is one of the safest jobs to have. Worrying about not going home at night is a byproduct of cowardice, not actual danger. When I was in the Army, I was stationed in a few locations where the people didn't really want the U.S. military in their country. Riots by dissidents happened frequently. Had to go on riot patrol a couple of times. Want to know how many times I was concerned about not making it home that night? Zero. It's part of the frickin' job I signed up for! If making it home at night is their only concern, then maybe they should get a job in sales or something. Oh, wait. There are more salespeople killed on the job than cops. Maybe they should find something that would let them work from home. That way they don't have to worry about making home, they'll already be there!

 

[MFE]

I wasn't preaching to you about misinterpreting, but you're still misinterpreting the data. Or you're intentionally trying to misrepresent it.

I'm doing neither of those things. The all workers average rate is 3.2, and that includes the occupations shown on the chart and all the ones not shown on the chart. Police rate is 10. Police fatality rate per 100k workers in that occupation is 3.125 times higher than the average. Done, end of story. If you come away with a different conclusion, it is you who is misinterpreting the data, or intentionally misrepresenting it.

If you try to remove from the average all the occupations not shown on the chart, you're left with the conclusion that police work is one of the safest of the 20 most dangerous.

If you remove from the calculation the other most dangerous on the chart , then police work is even more dangerous than the remaining average, because the average is sharply influenced by those other dangerous occupations shown in the graph.

 

[GT Premi]

I'm doing neither of those things. The all workers average rate is 3.2, and that includes the occupations shown on the chart and all the ones not shown on the chart. Police rate is 10. Police fatality rate per 100k workers in that occupation is 3.125 times higher than the average. Done, end of story. If you come away with a different conclusion, it is you who is misinterpreting the data, or intentionally misrepresenting it.

If you try to remove from the average all the occupations not shown on the chart, you're left with the conclusion that police work is one of the safest of the 20 most dangerous.

If you remove from the calculation the other most dangerous on the chart , then police work is even more dangerous than the remaining average, because the average is sharply influenced by those other dangerous occupations shown in the graph.

Let me restate this:

"... There are more farmers killed on the job each year than cops. That particular document doesn't break it down this far, but if you subtract out traffic fatalities (which are by far the leading cause) or other self-inflicted or non-homicide deaths, the fatality rate for cops on the job plummets. This link breaks it down even more. https://fee.org/articles/by-the-numbers-how-dangerous-is-it-to-be-a-cop/

So I stand behind my comment that being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs to have."

 

[_Snake_]

That's not even remotely true, though. I don't know where you read/heard that, but here are the comparative numbers. Skip down to page 9 of this document. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

There are more farmers killed on the job each year than cops. That particular document doesn't break it down this far, but if you subtract out traffic fatalities (which are by far the leading cause) or other self-inflicted or non-homicide deaths, the fatality rate for cops on the job plummets. This link breaks it down even more. https://fee.org/articles/by-the-numbers-how-dangerous-is-it-to-be-a-cop/

So I stand behind my comment that being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs to have.

What exactly are you focusing on in that first document (page 9)?

 

[MFE]

Let me restate this:

"... There are more farmers killed on the job each year than cops. That particular document doesn't break it down this far, but if you subtract out traffic fatalities (which are by far the leading cause) or other self-inflicted or non-homicide deaths, the fatality rate for cops on the job plummets. This link breaks it down even more. https://fee.org/articles/by-the-numbers-how-dangerous-is-it-to-be-a-cop/

So I stand behind my comment that being a cop in America is one of the safest jobs to have."

You can stand by it all you want, and you most certainly will, but you'll still be wrong.

Even on the document you originally posted, there are 6 occupations with rates higher than police/fire and 15 with rates lower. That does not indicate Police is "one of the safest". Furthermore police/fire, at 6.1, is higher than the average of 3.4 shown on the chart, again, not indicating "one of the safest".

It is you who appears to be letting predisposition cloud your observation of the facts, but maybe you just don't understand statistics.

I'm going to lay out some numbers and ask you a question.

You are choosing between two occupations. Occupation A sees 1000 fatalities per year, but there are a million people work in that occupation, so the fatality rate is 0.1%. Occupation B sees 500 fatalities per year, which is half as many as Occupation A, but only 10,000 people work in occupation B, so the fatality rate is 5.0%.

You are basing your occupational decision on minimizing your likelihood of dying on the job.

Do you pick occupation A, or occupation B? Just a single letter answer.