Paxton drivability questions

[beefcake]

There is a proper way to clock the maf, if it's done this way out of the gate, you rarely rarely run into an issue, and you don't run into an issue with the stock bov.

When we are tuning a car, I send instructions on clocking the maf before datalogging.

It doesn't make sense that the kit is the problem. When I have personally probably 100+ kits out there with no drivability issues. It's the knowing how to set the kit up, and knowing how to tune the car. That is where the issue is at. Look how many people in here with the kits that we / lund have tuned have no issues?

How is it, that the cars that we install, the cars that we remote tune, don't have issues? Because we know what we are doing.

I was just watching the process of another customer datalogging the car today with Lund. It took 3 revisions to have the car 100%. The 4th revision is his final tune with adjustable options on the xcal.

He does have an exhaust leak that is throwing off the fuel trims a little bit on one bank. Lund was able to see that out of the gate. But, we aren't going to turn the customer away, and the customer said he knew he had a small exhaust leak.

He got his id1000's yesterday, installed them last night, sent in his first log, and by 4:00pm this afternoon, with $0 invested in a dyno, he now has a great running car. Going at his own pace.

It's like that with everyone that we do.

 

[CPRsm]

How is it, that the cars that we install, the cars that we remote tune, don't have issues? Because we know what we are doing.

my guess is you just choose tune around it?

 

[01cobra'''dohc]

I am the customer in the last post. Beefcake is spot on with his description of what has happened to me. The third tune I loaded into the car was spot on. I went out for my last data log and ended up driving around for an hour. I thought before I send this last log I want to really drive the car. At first I was hard on it. I'm a sucker for spinning tires. But once I settled in I just wanted to go for a ride and see how drivability is. I would stop and take off just to see how the car reacted. Its spot on. I never found a problem with drivability. I have an exhaust leak just as mentioned. Lund found it on the first log I sent in. I ran the car up to 130mph and pushed it into neutral. No surging or any problem at idle. Before I took back off I reset my mpg. I shifted at 2200rpm and drove 15 minutes to go get gas. I averaged 22.7mpg. I went with my kit for a reason and I picked Lund to tune for a reason. He's the best.

 

[Justin81]

This thread has the potential to end in an epic disaster.

op:

 

[DSargent09]

It rightfully should. There are a bunch of people in here discrediting the "driveability" of a kit because it is a little more challenging to tune.

That's like saying turbos don't run good because they are hard to install. I just don't see the logic. If tuned correctly you will have 0 issues.

 

[blackbeast12]

Op and Justin, what have you learned after all this feedback?

 

[CPRsm]

It rightfully should. There are a bunch of people in here discrediting the "driveability" of a kit because it is a little more challenging to tune.

That's like saying turbos don't run good because they are hard to install. I just don't see the logic. If tuned correctly you will have 0 issues.

I don't think anyone has said they don't drive well. I think everyone has said they are just more challenging to tune and why. A few know there is a problem and shown proof and know what causes it. Apparently they don't know what they're doing since they're the only ones to notice it?

 

[Justin81]

Stay tuned for my response to what I have learned.

 

[beefcake]

I am the customer in the last post. Beefcake is spot on with his description of what has happened to me. The third tune I loaded into the car was spot on. I went out for my last data log and ended up driving around for an hour. I thought before I send this last log I want to really drive the car. At first I was hard on it. I'm a sucker for spinning tires. But once I settled in I just wanted to go for a ride and see how drivability is. I would stop and take off just to see how the car reacted. Its spot on. I never found a problem with drivability. I have an exhaust leak just as mentioned. Lund found it on the first log I sent in. I ran the car up to 130mph and pushed it into neutral. No surging or any problem at idle. Before I took back off I reset my mpg. I shifted at 2200rpm and drove 15 minutes to go get gas. I averaged 22.7mpg. I went with my kit for a reason and I picked Lund to tune for a reason. He's the best.

Thanks for chiming in.

This thread has the potential to end in an epic disaster.

op:

It rightfully should. There are a bunch of people in here discrediting the "driveability" of a kit because it is a little more challenging to tune.

That's like saying turbos don't run good because they are hard to install. I just don't see the logic. If tuned correctly you will have 0 issues.

Exactly. And it may be hard for some, but it isn't hard for everyone.

I'm trying to be as friendly and polite as possible, but the smoke and mirrors is ridiculous. 15 revisions for n/a tunes, crazy looking graphs that at the end of the day (if you know what your doing) that don't affect the tune, VCT, etc... It's all smoke and mirrors.

3 revisions for a spot on Paxton tune. 3. 3. 3. Is it possible to squeeze out another 5hp playing with VCT on the dyno. Yes. But to "truly" get an accurate number, you need to do it the right way. 5 pulls back to back. Take an average. Make a change. 5 more pulls back to back. Take an average. Make a change. 5 more pulls back to back. This. I made a pull and picked up 2 hp. Just plain silly.

If you want an inexpensive kit, spot on tune, done properly and easily, without all the smoke and mirros like 01cobradohc above. You know where to come.

 

[Shaun@AED]

LOL @ the #1 Paxton Dealer saying there is no issue with the parts he sells.
Anything to make a buck right Terry? Just like when you sold all your customers Vortech BAP's with these kits and stock Vortech injectors.....you said the fuel pump was too small back then, not the injectors. Now the BOV is *just fine*, until you become a dealer for Tial I guess.

I'm not here to sell blower kits.

You can not *fix* hardware issues with software! We do our bet to work around issues like this, but the hardware problems are still there.

However, I will tell you how to solve this Paxton / Vortech Specific issue. There are multiple ways, here are 2 options:
1. Re-pipe the Maf area with the same size diameter tubing as the rest of the post intercooler piping.
2. Purchase a Maf Flange and weld it to the intercooler outlet http://vmptuning.com/maf-flanges/
3. Install a Tial Q-series BOV
4. Retune

Or
1. Re-pipe the Maf area with the same size diameter tubing as the rest of the post intercooler piping with a Maf Flange http://vmptuning.com/maf-flanges/
2. Purchase a JMS Maf Extender http://www.jmschip.com/jms-mass-air...z-4001-f11-mustang-f150-and-most-other-fords/
3. Install a Tial Q-series BOV
4. Retune

The JMS Maf extender has the capability of filtering the Maf signal which buffers out the high/low spikes in the signal.

 

[beefcake]

I don't think anyone has said they don't drive well. I think everyone has said they are just more challenging to tune and why. A few know there is a problem and shown proof and know what causes it. Apparently they don't know what they're doing since they're the only ones to notice it?

Maybe they don't. Not posting names, but I've had several customers that had issues with their tune (from elsewhere) that complained about drivability, that I have helped with something as simple with the MAF clocking, and that took care of 95% of the issues.

 

[FiveSlow]

This thread is funny. I think it's a joke since I've seen basic Paxton kits run 9's on the mostly stock auto cars. I guess when you can do this for about $3,000 cheaper than any other kit people will be butt hurt. Oh well.

Drivability is the same as stock until you load the car w/boost. End thread.

 

[beefcake]

Everytime I try, someone just wants to push

LOL @ the #1 Paxton Dealer saying there is no issue with the parts he sells.
Anything to make a buck right Terry? Just like when you sold all your customers Vortech BAP's with these kits and stock Vortech injectors.....you said the fuel pump was too small back then, not the injectors.

I have never, never, recommended the stock injectors with these kits. I have always pushed the IDs on my customers. You are full of crap. Vortech sends 47's with their "complete" kits. That's one of the reasons that I started my own custom packages, was to give people more for less.

Now the BOV is *just fine*, until you become a dealer for Tial I guess.

Actually I am a TIAL dealer. But nice try. And Vortech has always had upgraded BOV's for high HP cars.

When people call and ask about ordering the upgraded BOV on a stock car. I tell them it's not needed. It's for sound. If you want sound, you can do the vortech's new race bov, or if you plan on big boost down the road, you can do the bv57 by vortech, or the tial. I don't sell stuff that people don't need.

I am still running the stock / sound upgrade bov on my car. Why would I push something on someone that I'm not using myself??? Answer is, I don't!

You really dont' know me well at all. I am in business. Yes. The goal of a business is to make money. However, my approach to this is different. I sell stuff to people cheaper so they "save" money. I don't push parts on people that I don't think they need. You will find dozens of customers that I have "not" sold stuff that they wanted to buy, because I didn't think they needed it and recommended against it.

I had a guy order a kit the other day that was in the process of building an engine, and told him he didn't need the torque booster, because he would be able to simply pulley down to a 3.33 without it. I don't ever try to sell someone something I don't think they need.

I always, always try to push people towards the proper parts, to get the most they can, while spending the least. My margin is very small, maybe 10-14%

What's your margin on your tunes? About 90%+? Who is really getting the customer??

I'm not here to sell blower kits.

No, your here to sell tunes!!!!!! LOL. The highest profit margin product there is.

Like I said, was trying to be civil. You act like your not a vendor on here. Your here to make money. You have a higher profit margin than every other vendor here. If you want to call out, let's really call out.

You posted a graph last week of 701 rwhp on 91 octane at stock boost levels, with 14.5 degrees of timing.

It is physically impossible to get those numbers out of a Paxton car on stock boost at those timing levels with that fuel. I didn't call BS to keep the piece. But come on.

I will pay to fly you to Holley. I will pay to have that car trailered to Holley. The car will be gone over by an independent at Holley, Filled with 91 octane fuel. And if it makes 650 rwhp. I will pay you an additional $2000. If it doesn't make 650, you reimburse me for all expenses and pay me $2000. Not 700, only has to make 650. The cars do not make that kind of power at stock boost levels. They just don't. Not without manipulating the dyno.

You can not *fix* hardware issues with software! We do our bet to work around issues like this, but the hardware problems are still there.

However, I will tell you how to solve this Paxton / Vortech Specific issue. There are multiple ways, here are 2 options:
1. Re-pipe the Maf area with the same size diameter tubing as the rest of the post intercooler piping.
2. Purchase a Maf Flange and weld it to the intercooler outlet http://vmptuning.com/maf-flanges/
3. Install a Tial Q-series BOV
4. Retune

Or
1. Re-pipe the Maf area with the same size diameter tubing as the rest of the post intercooler piping with a Maf Flange http://vmptuning.com/maf-flanges/
2. Purchase a JMS Maf Extender http://www.jmschip.com/jms-mass-air...z-4001-f11-mustang-f150-and-most-other-fords/
3. Install a Tial Q-series BOV
4. Retune

The JMS Maf extender has the capability of filtering the Maf signal which buffers out the high/low spikes in the signal.

Or you could just let us / Lund tune the car and be done with it

 

[CPRsm]

This thread is funny. I think it's a joke since I've seen basic Paxton kits run 9's on the mostly stock auto cars. I guess when you can do this for about $3,000 cheaper than any other kit people will be butt hurt.

That kit is only about 1500 cheaper than a JPC kit, and it costs more than an On3 kit and nitrous combined. So there goes that theory. What is really funny is when someone who asks a question, is given an honest unbiased answer (both people tune Paxton's, and one of them even sells Paxton), then comments with PROOF of said problem, it suddenly is because jealousy of cost, because everyone spent more. Or it's just smoke and mirrors multiple people have posted logs of. And no one else knows how to do it right but one dealer/tuner. Now THAT'S a joke.
If it was a conspiracy this would have come up long ago to sabotage sales. But tuners have gotten around it because the market is too large. Like I said two pages ago. People don't bring it up because others were going to get sore and harassed because "they didn't have that problem." But the but sore folks are the ones who spent more and don't have maf problems? I'm confused lol

 

[CPRsm]

Maybe they don't. Not posting names, but I've had several customers that had issues with their tune (from elsewhere) that complained about drivability, that I have helped with something as simple with the MAF clocking, and that took care of 95% of the issues.

So they clock the maf tube and the problem/s goes away?

 

[beefcake]

So they clock the maf tube and the problem/s goes away?

It helps get the tune going the proper direction

 

[Shaun@AED]

LOL Beef. My how things change.
It was just December of 2012 when we ran into each other at PRI and you asked me in front of dozens of people to TUNE YOUR CAR BECAUSE LUND COULD NOT GET DRIVABILITY RIGHT.

How many engines have you gone thru now???

 

[beefcake]

That kit is only about 1500 cheaper than a JPC kit, and it costs more than an On3 kit and nitrous combined. So there goes that theory. What is really funny is when someone who asks a question, is given an honest unbiased answer (both people tune Paxton's, and one of them even sells Paxton), then comments with PROOF of said problem, it suddenly is because jealousy of cost, because everyone spent more. Or it's just smoke and mirrors multiple people have posted logs of. And no one else knows how to do it right but one dealer/tuner. Now THAT'S a joke.
If it was a conspiracy this would have come up long ago to sabotage sales. But tuners have gotten around it because the market is too large. Like I said two pages ago. People don't bring it up because others were going to get sore and harassed because "they didn't have that problem." But the but sore folks are the ones who spent more and don't have maf problems? I'm confused lol

Yes, we seen the big bad giant looking graph, I can make the picture even bigger and make it look even scarier......

People can take it for what they want.

THe customer above that posted did not buy his kit from me. He called me because he is somewhat local to me and was having issues. I told him we could tune the car. I told him that with the 47's, he was going to be limited on what the car would make, so he opted for the id 1000's.

He wanted to come down and pay me money to be on the dyno. I told him, before he spent $200-$300 on the dyno, let us remote tune the car and see what we can do there.

It took 3 revisions. 3, that's it, and his car drives great. Better than it did on the previous tunes. The proof is in the pudding. And now, he has another $200-$300 in his pocket. That is how I do business. Not trying to get more out of the customer, but figuring out how to get less.

As far as the conspiracy. We all know everyone is trying to steer customers in other directions from Vortech / Paxton because I dominate the market. And like most people in business. People want higher margins. I am the exception to the rule.

 

[beefcake]

LOL Beef. My how things change.
It was just December of 2012 when we ran into each other at PRI and you asked me in front of dozens of people to TUNE YOUR CAR BECAUSE LUND COULD NOT GET DRIVABILITY RIGHT.

How many engines have you gone thru now???

LMAO. At PRI when I met you, I was laughing my ass off at you talking about all the things you could do. I stroked your ego and let you go on your way. You kept trying to get a Lund file from me over and over and over.

As soon as you walked away, I looked at my wife and said that guy is an idiot and that you would never get anything out of me. I had just come off a 9.03 pass with the car, the quickest pass out of a Paxton / JT yet.

We all had a great laugh at your expense.

As far as engines, I have been through a few. What's your point?

We lost an engine due to the weak area in the water jackets that had about 300 passes on it.

The next engine we ran for sometime, and then sold it and tuned it for a customer at over 700 on pump gas and it's still running around.

The next engine we lost because I wanted Evo's record and threw a 100 shot at the car without having Lund change the tune. So what, it's my engine to push. It's not a customers car.

 

[ajpturbo]

So they clock the maf tube and the problem/s goes away?

Is this like rotating a driveshaft that is balanced by itself lol?

AED and CPR tell it like it is and Beefcake is a salesman lol