Paxton drivability questions
- Thread starter rfugio68
- Start date
I gotta call BS. Our current tuning with Lund on these cars is ridiculously perfect. If your tuner can't tune a Paxton / Vortech car. We would be happy to do it. My blue car when it was a daily drove perfect. My wife could hop in the car and drive it, although she never did.
My 2014 car, my wife carries around a key and drives it all the time. She drove us 5 hours to and from the Joliet race last year without a single hiccup. Anyone anywhere near close to Cincinnati is happy to come for a ride in the red car to see the "horrible" drivability. The car doesn't buck / stall / drag down / have any issues. It is 100% remote tuned by lund and is perfect to a t. Tunes get better all the time, and we are constantly revising them, just as Shaun does. The current tunes are incredible on these.
You can post all the "maf" graphs you want to make things look however you want them to look. The bottom line is. The car drives like stock til you hit it.
Here are a couple of videos of the before and after with the new blow off valve with plenty of street driving in them. Please tell me where you here any type of drivability issues.
Before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erQH-pITYUw
After.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eOaUlpwoYw
As far as the comment, "If they don't feel it, they are none the wiser", it's simple, because it's not enough of a difference for anyone to notice when actually driving the car.
As far as the comment about stalling. The bypass on these are more than large enough to accomidate stock boost or more. I am running a 3.33 pulley with our torque booster setup and the car NEVER stalls. NEVER stalls.
Again, I challenge anyone within a normal driving distance to come down and go for a ride in the car and you will be sold.
My 2014 car, my wife carries around a key and drives it all the time. She drove us 5 hours to and from the Joliet race last year without a single hiccup. Anyone anywhere near close to Cincinnati is happy to come for a ride in the red car to see the "horrible" drivability. The car doesn't buck / stall / drag down / have any issues. It is 100% remote tuned by lund and is perfect to a t. Tunes get better all the time, and we are constantly revising them, just as Shaun does. The current tunes are incredible on these.
You can post all the "maf" graphs you want to make things look however you want them to look. The bottom line is. The car drives like stock til you hit it.
Here are a couple of videos of the before and after with the new blow off valve with plenty of street driving in them. Please tell me where you here any type of drivability issues.
Before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erQH-pITYUw
After.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eOaUlpwoYw
As far as the comment, "If they don't feel it, they are none the wiser", it's simple, because it's not enough of a difference for anyone to notice when actually driving the car.
As far as the comment about stalling. The bypass on these are more than large enough to accomidate stock boost or more. I am running a 3.33 pulley with our torque booster setup and the car NEVER stalls. NEVER stalls.
Again, I challenge anyone within a normal driving distance to come down and go for a ride in the car and you will be sold.
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Get it retuned all the well known tuners are up to date on how to fix this minor issue.
Exactly
Exactly
The stock setup and whipple / screw setups are a draw through setup. The Paxton is a blow through setup. The blow through signal is always going to be off compared to a draw through, because the signal is after the blower, so the air changes will be more noticeable. To think anything different is just silly.
Draw thru is drawing the air across the maf, where blow thru is pushing the air pass the maf. It's as simple as that.
Exactly
It is more stock like in the sense that it is a draw thru setup.
A good tune is everything.
We don't sell AED tuning, but I have a lot of customers such as Tom that use AED and I never try to force our tune on them. I have dozens of AED tuned customers that love their kit, and say the same thing. Car drives like stock.
So, either the car can be tuned, or it can't? You can't have it both ways.
At the end of the day. A blow thru car is always going to change more drastically than a draw thru. That's a fact when "pushing" the air.
Again not saying Shaun isn't right about it being harder to tune.
Just saying if properly tuned drive ability is perfect
Just saying if properly tuned drive ability is perfect
I agree. I think he has done a fair amount. Obviously we / Lund have done a ton, so at this point, it's almost child's play for them assuming there is no mechanical issues with the car.
We typically do an idle log along with a neutral rev. Then after the first revision, another small idle log, with some non boost street driving, and then if there are no mechanical issues, it's off to the dyno / street for wot pulls. If we have a scheduled session, we can be wot in 30 minutes.
Lund remote tuned the car after the Paxton was put on. I do have a torque booster kit to put on so maybe when they retune for that maybe it will be even better. I am very pleased with the car now, no complaints, car runs like a monster. Lund was awesome to deal with.
This is a Paxton at Idle
This is a Procharger at idle
What would you rather tune?
You can make the Paxton drive pretty good its just alot more work. IF we want to clean the signal we modify the kit here at the shop.
The BOV is undersized once you start adding pulleys and stuff it also effects it
Not hating on paxton its a good budget kit
CPRsm
Active Member
It's not silly, that's wrong. Before or after the blower has no role in it. If it did being after the blower would help because it goes thru an intercooler before it hits the maf, which would help straighten flow. But not the case. Blow thru is more difficult because there is not an air filter at the beginning of a smooth tube before the maf like PD blowers. Some have it right after the filter and after a neck down Venturi effect which speeds air and straightens it. That is how the oem airbox does it. Blow thru goes thru a bunch of bends and is expected to straighten out right before the maf. Without any assistance I think air is supposed to take 10 times the diameter of the tube to straighten out on it's own. Speed helps straighten it out. Take the same mass from a blower and cram it into a 3in tube and everything speeds up. Some companies do this to cover a poor signal caused by a poorly thought out maf tune. But then the maf maxes out way too early.
10x diameter is pretty much industrial standard on flow measurement
The Paxton kits do have a straightener to help straighten the air out.
Again, at the end of the day. It's a silly argument. You can post all the graphs of squiggly lines of the maf signal, stretch them out, and make them look bigger and bigger, and it doesn't change the fact that the cars still drive like stock.
And it doesn't take "a lot more work" if you know what your doing. All we need is the initial idle, and if there are no mechanical issues. The car has near perfect drivability after the first revision. Maybe some tuners can't do that. Lund can.
I will concede the signal is further off compared to the other kits. I will also concede it makes not a bit of difference on how the car is going to drive.
Again, at the end of the day. It's a silly argument. You can post all the graphs of squiggly lines of the maf signal, stretch them out, and make them look bigger and bigger, and it doesn't change the fact that the cars still drive like stock.
And it doesn't take "a lot more work" if you know what your doing. All we need is the initial idle, and if there are no mechanical issues. The car has near perfect drivability after the first revision. Maybe some tuners can't do that. Lund can.
I will concede the signal is further off compared to the other kits. I will also concede it makes not a bit of difference on how the car is going to drive.
This is a Paxton at Idle
This is a Procharger at idle
What would you rather tune?
You can make the Paxton drive pretty good its just alot more work. IF we want to clean the signal we modify the kit here at the shop.
The BOV is undersized once you start adding pulleys and stuff it also effects it
Not hating on paxton its a good budget kit
Eric,
Do you have one of these of a TVS or similar? Would you think it's much cleaner?
Curious if any of the manufacturers have looked into straightening elbows to clear up the signal. The last one I was briefed on cut the diameters down to 4 IIRC. Add that with a screen and you may be really getting somewhere.
Might be a stupid questions but would going to a draw through setup on the paxton help out any with the maf signal?
we started out on a draw through originally with testing, but with the ability to tune the maf on these. The blow thru really seems to work out well. We ended up switching over. The install is much cleaner, and you get more sound out of the bov, and more options to swap bov's if you choose to.
No reason to really change it.
i can dig one up, it will not differ too much from a whipple
The screen becomes a restriction, the best way to make this work is use a screen already in place... your intercooler. Procharger hit this one on the head many moons ago. they have a very clean signal. thats the way our turbo kits are as well
yes and no
Draw through will have a cleaner signal a WOT just like a Whipple or Roush, the problem is the By pass. Now you have to set your system up to recirculate, and that can have another set of problems. Not only are you recirculating hot air, it becomes a major issue at a higher rpm cruise. centrifugal blowers make boost with RPM so lets say you are down shifting to a light. so lets say your at 4000 Rpm now the blower is moving that much air (what ever boost you make at 4K) but the car only needs a small amount to run. so all the extra air is going back in the inlet. This situation will make alot turbulence in the maf because that air is coming back so fast its just going to go all over the place and run back through the meter. Its a very common issue in 2V mustangs and older 4Vs. what happens is the air goes backwards across the MAF and the MAF is trying to read it so it causes a rich condition.
any way moral of the story is just because it can be done does not mean there is not a better way to do it. You can pay your bills by writing checks and buying stamps or you can email it... choice is yours.
Paxton = least favorite car to tune.
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As shaun already said, Piss poor maf freq also to0 small of a BOV for even stock boost levels left me having plenty of issues. Even with Shaun tuning my car on a dyno and on the streets we ran into some issues with clearing up the MAF freq to get it right. Donno how many emails where sent about reclocking the MAF before getting it to be "acceptable." Here is poof that a Stock BOV on the paxton kit just doesnt work. A Tial BOV should come stock with the kit as it cleaned up my signal 10x after a WOT pull.
Stock BOV after WOT
Stock BOV after WOT
I had zero issues with tuning my paxton car with stock bov and 3.8 pulley, then the 3.6 pulley, then tial bov, then return fuel both 93 and corn. then wastegate setup with 3.15. Lund handled all my tuning with street logs and no dyno time. Car drives perfect, and I have zero issues. Just over 37k miles with last 17k+ being with the paxton.
For the people talking about modding the kit for easier tuning other than swapping the bov what did you do?
For the people talking about modding the kit for easier tuning other than swapping the bov what did you do?
CPRsm
Active Member
HA! Caveman remembered correctly lol
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