MMR identifies a new problem with E-85/racefuel softening the secondary chain guides

[SID297]

I would venture to say that RPM plays a huge role in this issue.

 

[pullingees]

Good points about the uses and performance of trucks vs mustangs, however the ring gaps from what I understand as well as lower compression. But I know of a buddy that has 7 ford F 150's and he has over 165,000 on everyone of them and changes fluids according to ford, now the only thing he doesn't do is run regular fuel in them, never to his knowledge has anything but E85 been ran in them since he has a contract with gas station near him to fuel fleet, oh and 0 issues on any truck related to engines, other than an alternator and water pump.

 

[Robertt305]

Red meat... If only a cave man can do it..... Oh wait.... They did..... Lol

 

[_Snake_]

To be fair, as important and crucial as many of the parts MMR makes may be, i will admit that damn near all of their threads include the phrase "AVOID CATASTROPHIC ENGINE FAILURE." The engine may fail, and it may very well be catastrophic due to said part, but i imagine that is where people get the impression of "scare tactics." Apparently there are a lot of parts in my motor waiting to go ...

This. I'm new to Mustangs and this forum, but I've been on the boards for over 10 years. FWIW, I developed this impression of MMR fairly quickly after joining here for this very reason.

 

[Brezick]

We agree, and we are all guilty of it. Some people may purchase it as a precaution, others may not. We are okay with this, but at least now we can say that we have brought the problem to peoples attention. In regards to scare tactics - there are not many ways of telling someone that a part may cause catastrophic failure, unfortunately there is no way to sugar coat it and the bottom line is it CAN and WILL! . Do you need to rush out and tear your engine down?, of course not, but if you have your engine apart, are building a new engine or have aftermarket cams and springs this is a $99 insurance policy that is well worth it.

Why couldn't you simply open your thread with something along the lines of this statement. It feels more inviting and less threatening than the OP. I don't think anyone is saying its a bad product, just needed a better delivery.

 

[Voltwings]

Bro they are in the business of selling parts and alot of the parts they sell are designed to be severe duty replacement parts for potentially weak OEM parts... How would you market these products? "AVOID A MILDLY UNDESIRABLE UNSCHEDULED ENGINE SERVICE"

Lol, i was merely trying to play Devil's advocate and recognize both sides of the argument. That being said, your comment is pretty funny, but i feel mine was taken slightly out of context. I believe MMR, as well as others have stated, its not a piece that you need to run out right now and tear your timing cover off and replace immediately but rather one that it may be a good idea to replace if you're in there anyways. My only point was, to the... we'll call them uneducated, when coming across wording such as that, i imagine it can cause some panic.
I imagine it can also cause some skepticism as we have seen here When you say "your engine will fail," and naturally everyone whose engine has not failed has something to say about it. Not bashing their products, or what they spend their time making, maybe just how they advertise them.

Funny that you mention this, a few weeks ago a customer called with a failed lower stock gear, it ruined his entire engine, he asked us why we didnt tell him that he needed it when he purchased other parts. So I guess you can say that now that we are aware of the problem we are liable for telling our customers what the consequences are. It would be like selling a drug and not explaining what it might do to you. As we said before - dont shoot the messenger guys!

Certainly can understand that, something is always someone else's fault. Like i said, nothing wrong with what you guys are making, you've provided pictures, that part apparently fails. Just maybe the way you advertise them could be better addressed. That's all i have to say on the matter, the horse is already quite dead at this point, just wanted to ... "clarify" my original post i suppose.

 

[txcharlie]

This may be a stupid question, but does this replace a plastic contact part with a metal contact part? Would that cause excessive chain wear?

 

[Blazer707@TBR]

That's a good question, metal on metal is never good. Maybe they are going to coat the billet tensioner piece.

 

[scholle]

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/ethanol_fueling_compatibility.pdf

Go read.....
This sort of thing gets even worse when * additives * such as certain oxgenators are added.

 

[Beernuts]

Strangely enough, if you let them sit for a month or so they harden again (like stock) - we would assume that the chemical that softens them has possibly evaporated at that point?

Oak Ridge National Laboratory found similar results in their testing of Ethanol blended fuels:

"Nylon 12 showed a slight increase in hardness after dry-out despite the significant volume and mass loss. This embrittlement, albeit slight, coupled with a decrease in volume and mass strongly suggests extraction of an additive, especially a plasticizer. PPS and PET also exhibited a slight increase in hardness along with a small increase in dried volume."

What's more interesting, the lower ethanol percentage fuel (25%) actually caused MORE softening than 85% in some materials.

Are the OEM parts stamped with a material code? Could shed some light on what's happening.

Here's a link to the study (good reading): COMPATIBILITY STUDY FOR PLASTIC, ELASTOMERIC, AND METALLIC FUELING INFRASTRUCTURE MATERIALS EXPOSED TO AGGRESSIVE FORMULATIONS OF ETHANOL-BLENDED GASOLINE

 

[Beernuts]

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/ethanol_fueling_compatibility.pdf

Go read.....
This sort of thing gets even worse when * additives * such as certain oxgenators are added.

lol looks like we were both researching the same thing! :beer:

 

[Modular Racing]

Great information , this data coincides EXACTLY with what we have found.

 

[Modular Racing]

That's a good question, metal on metal is never good. Maybe they are going to coat the billet tensioner piece.

Metal on metal is not a problem given the correct hardness and lubrication (both of which the MMR part has). Pistons, rings, bearings are all metal on metal, given correct lubrication it is not a problem (the oil hole in the MMR part feeds direct oil to the part for lubrication), our test vehicles using the parts have put slight polishing marks on the guides after 4500 miles which is normal, keep in mind the chains and sprockets also have metal on metal contact. Roush racing also used a similar design on some of the daytona prototype engines in which the guides on the primary chains were a full metal part.

 

[Blazer707@TBR]

Lifetime warranty on these then?

 

[Modular Racing]

Yes, this item carries a lifetime warranty to the original owner.

 

[scholle]

lol looks like we were both researching the same thing! :beer:

Yep!

I've seen this exact thing happen in engines that use methanol as a fuel or injected for things like FI. Ethanol isnt much different.
The information isnt new about the affects of ethanol and other alcohols on engine and fuel system parts. There may be some alternatives though.

http://www.dsm.com/markets/automotive/en_US/applications/powertrain/timing-systems.html I havent looked to see if there are compatabilty issues with this...yet

 

[Modular Racing]

Yep!

I've seen this exact thing happen in engines that use methanol as a fuel or injected for things like FI. Ethanol isnt much different.
The information isnt new about the affects of ethanol and other alcohols on engine and fuel system parts. There may be some alternatives though.

Correct, thank you for the input!

 

[scholle]

Just install them like the magazine says!

 

[SID297]

That should work just fine.