mc01svt, sounds like you PMSing real bad :cuss:
So what saying is that a Lightning is the technical equivalent to a GT500 in truck form with 2 less cams and 16 less valves and 1000 lbs. more pork. Not even in the same league.
Ill save this one for last
……and are also used in the majority of current supercharger applications. The piston engine was invented in the 1880’s and is still the powerplant of choice. So what’s your point?
“Cast iron blocks are as low tech as possible”. Tell that to an automotive or industrial engineer. For a mechanical engineer you seem to have little understanding of the merits of a cast iron. Without having to completely re-educating you let me explain a few of the advantages cast iron has over aluminum. If I’m wrong I would love to hear your views as an engineer like yourself from a technical perspective.
• Cast iron is a much denser material on a molecular scale then aluminum therefore is a much stiffer and stable material and has a higher yield strength.
• Cast iron is a very poor thermal conductor which will absorb much less of the heat energy produced during the combustion process and will produce power more efficiently then aluminum. Aluminum soaks up heat like a sponge and is much more prone to localized thermally induced stresses and hot spots. The thermal problems using aluminum are within acceptable limits but cast iron will do a better job of coping with it.
• Cast iron has almost 3 times less thermal expansion rate then aluminum and does not require as much care with regard to machining tolerances and cooling distribution.
• Iron blocks are cast as one piece and don’t require sleeves or steel main bearing caps. This will produce a much stiffer structure with much stronger threads that can be torqued to a much higher level then aluminum. Aluminum threads are much more prone to thread pull and stripping.
• Cast iron melting temperature is twice that of aluminum and will retain higher strength then aluminum at a given temperature. Aluminum melting point is at about 1320º and is much more prone to warping due to it's high thermal expansion rate.
• Cast iron can be molded using thinner cross section then aluminum and still maintain the same level of strength. Aluminum mod motor blocks must employ Siamesed bores because of this and don’t have 360º water jackets.
• Cast iron engines are much more durable and are used exclusively for continuous load industrial, marine and diesel applications where an aluminum engine will not survive very long.
• Cast iron has greater fatigue resistance then aluminum. Cast iron connecting rods are quite common in piston engines. Drag races use aluminum rods because of it’s lower compression strength that will absorb the shock loads from the power stroke and are then discarded after each run.
The only real advantage aluminum has over cast iron is that it is lighter and can be repaired quite easily and are much easier on machine tooling. The aluminum mod motor block are only 68 lbs. lighter then it’s cast iron counterpart. If cast iron was as light as aluminum then everyone would be using it for racing applications. During high loads and RPM’s the bearing saddles tend to move around in an aluminum engine. Ford uses aluminum in their lower horsepower/light duty applications but switches over to cast iron for engines when they need to ensure long term durability like as used in your truck and to minimize warranty claims. They use aluminum blocks in the mustang GT and Mach 1 but made the decision to use cast iron in their high end supercharged Terminator and GT500 cars (that was no accident). The GT uses a very expensive heavy duty aluminum block that is not likely to be driven many thousands of miles, stuck in traffic jams day after day and will be meticulously maintained by their owners. In all likelihood most GT’s will not be driven very hard by their owners as opposed to the abuse Mustangs will receive by us hot rod types who don’t have the dough to spring for a very expensive engine everytime we do something stupid.
I would like to see what kind of sense of humor an aluminum 427 cid Z06 engine or a 500 cid Viper engine will have if it was supercharged to the same level of performance as they are getting from a stock block cast iron 281 cid Cobra engine with just a set of pistons? Guys with turbo’s are putting down 800 hp to the ground quite easily. Have you seen how thin the metal is between the cylinder wall are on the Z06 engine? It’s scary! Under the same loads as the Cobra engine I don’t think the Vette would tolerate that level of power very long plus it doesn’t have to cope with equivalent of a 400 lb sac of cement sitting on the roof not to mention all the aerodynamic drag the Mustang has.
I won't argue with you on that but Ford has been winning races with the SRA SN197 against IRS equipped cars. Proof is in the pudding.
That's because nobody but Ford is stupid enough to build a high performance truck other then Dodge. I bet it won't take much to get a GT500 to race across the salt flats, pick up some Chinese take-out and get back to the finish line before the Lightning crosses the traps
To be honest you don't come across to me like you're an engineer. Most of your statements are nothing more then over simplistic statements that ignore some of the details that don't support your arguments. Based on your statements what I gather is that you are either your not a design engineer, work in low tech industry, new to the profession or cheated on your exam. I think your just bitter that Ford doesn't make your beloved Lightning and killed off the Adrenalin which is probably a smart business decision and now you taking it out on the GT500. In case you haven't noticed all the Detroit car companies are in trouble especially GM. They are not in the business to satisfy "your" craving for a go fast truck. Personally I can’t fathom why anyone would want pick-up truck that will get is ass handed to it by a Subaru. A truck is meant to be a rugged utility vehicle that used to haul stuff not some polished beauty queen with shiny rims and ArmorAll’d tires. Get over it!
mc01svt said:
So what saying is that a Lightning is the technical equivalent to a GT500 in truck form with 2 less cams and 16 less valves and 1000 lbs. more pork. Not even in the same league.
Ill save this one for last
……and are also used in the majority of current supercharger applications. The piston engine was invented in the 1880’s and is still the powerplant of choice. So what’s your point?
“Cast iron blocks are as low tech as possible”. Tell that to an automotive or industrial engineer. For a mechanical engineer you seem to have little understanding of the merits of a cast iron. Without having to completely re-educating you let me explain a few of the advantages cast iron has over aluminum. If I’m wrong I would love to hear your views as an engineer like yourself from a technical perspective.
• Cast iron is a much denser material on a molecular scale then aluminum therefore is a much stiffer and stable material and has a higher yield strength.
• Cast iron is a very poor thermal conductor which will absorb much less of the heat energy produced during the combustion process and will produce power more efficiently then aluminum. Aluminum soaks up heat like a sponge and is much more prone to localized thermally induced stresses and hot spots. The thermal problems using aluminum are within acceptable limits but cast iron will do a better job of coping with it.
• Cast iron has almost 3 times less thermal expansion rate then aluminum and does not require as much care with regard to machining tolerances and cooling distribution.
• Iron blocks are cast as one piece and don’t require sleeves or steel main bearing caps. This will produce a much stiffer structure with much stronger threads that can be torqued to a much higher level then aluminum. Aluminum threads are much more prone to thread pull and stripping.
• Cast iron melting temperature is twice that of aluminum and will retain higher strength then aluminum at a given temperature. Aluminum melting point is at about 1320º and is much more prone to warping due to it's high thermal expansion rate.
• Cast iron can be molded using thinner cross section then aluminum and still maintain the same level of strength. Aluminum mod motor blocks must employ Siamesed bores because of this and don’t have 360º water jackets.
• Cast iron engines are much more durable and are used exclusively for continuous load industrial, marine and diesel applications where an aluminum engine will not survive very long.
• Cast iron has greater fatigue resistance then aluminum. Cast iron connecting rods are quite common in piston engines. Drag races use aluminum rods because of it’s lower compression strength that will absorb the shock loads from the power stroke and are then discarded after each run.
The only real advantage aluminum has over cast iron is that it is lighter and can be repaired quite easily and are much easier on machine tooling. The aluminum mod motor block are only 68 lbs. lighter then it’s cast iron counterpart. If cast iron was as light as aluminum then everyone would be using it for racing applications. During high loads and RPM’s the bearing saddles tend to move around in an aluminum engine. Ford uses aluminum in their lower horsepower/light duty applications but switches over to cast iron for engines when they need to ensure long term durability like as used in your truck and to minimize warranty claims. They use aluminum blocks in the mustang GT and Mach 1 but made the decision to use cast iron in their high end supercharged Terminator and GT500 cars (that was no accident). The GT uses a very expensive heavy duty aluminum block that is not likely to be driven many thousands of miles, stuck in traffic jams day after day and will be meticulously maintained by their owners. In all likelihood most GT’s will not be driven very hard by their owners as opposed to the abuse Mustangs will receive by us hot rod types who don’t have the dough to spring for a very expensive engine everytime we do something stupid.
I would like to see what kind of sense of humor an aluminum 427 cid Z06 engine or a 500 cid Viper engine will have if it was supercharged to the same level of performance as they are getting from a stock block cast iron 281 cid Cobra engine with just a set of pistons? Guys with turbo’s are putting down 800 hp to the ground quite easily. Have you seen how thin the metal is between the cylinder wall are on the Z06 engine? It’s scary! Under the same loads as the Cobra engine I don’t think the Vette would tolerate that level of power very long plus it doesn’t have to cope with equivalent of a 400 lb sac of cement sitting on the roof not to mention all the aerodynamic drag the Mustang has.
I won't argue with you on that but Ford has been winning races with the SRA SN197 against IRS equipped cars. Proof is in the pudding.
That's because nobody but Ford is stupid enough to build a high performance truck other then Dodge. I bet it won't take much to get a GT500 to race across the salt flats, pick up some Chinese take-out and get back to the finish line before the Lightning crosses the traps
To be honest you don't come across to me like you're an engineer. Most of your statements are nothing more then over simplistic statements that ignore some of the details that don't support your arguments. Based on your statements what I gather is that you are either your not a design engineer, work in low tech industry, new to the profession or cheated on your exam. I think your just bitter that Ford doesn't make your beloved Lightning and killed off the Adrenalin which is probably a smart business decision and now you taking it out on the GT500. In case you haven't noticed all the Detroit car companies are in trouble especially GM. They are not in the business to satisfy "your" craving for a go fast truck. Personally I can’t fathom why anyone would want pick-up truck that will get is ass handed to it by a Subaru. A truck is meant to be a rugged utility vehicle that used to haul stuff not some polished beauty queen with shiny rims and ArmorAll’d tires. Get over it!
