Lessons Learned

[dougwg]

First I would like to say hi to SergntMac and welcome to SVTPerformance.com

Just to clarify:

When Sid297 said "They're basically here to prevent vendor bashing and to slay trolls.", he means "Authorized Vendors of SVTP", the one's who pay to advertise on this site.

"The Contractor" has NO PROTECTION on this website. Besides.... no names have been stated. Therefor no bashing has occurred.

I have had people with an issue with me. They were bashing me. A Moderator of this site asked if I would like the post deleted, I said no! I have nothing to hide and wanted to tell my side of the story.
I did and the poster that was bashing was proven to be an asshat that was totally in the wrong, and it was all right there for the whole would to see.

If you are in the right, there is nothing to fear. If you are in the wrong... well... take your licks and don't do that again!

Now onto what you posted.

Ever heard this?

"Wow, I just don't understand. He was such a nice fellow and was always soft spoken and I would have never thought he would have murdered his wife with an Axe and then drowned his 2 kids."

Just because you have had a GREAT experience with said contractor does not mean he is/was capable of doing what the #1 poster has eluded to.... agreed?

with that said, I think a re-read of Mikes post is in order

I have no idea whether this particular thread, about this particular "contractor" has any validity at all. To take a single post, or a small series of posts over time, and rely on that to judge a vendor is a mistake. Everyone has good experiences, and bad experiences, with ALL vendors.

That said, Billy has made a very good point about "patterns." When a particular vendor is constantly, continually, and consistently criticized on the open internet forums by a continuous stream of different people, then there is definitely something to stop and think about. Where there is smoke there is fire.

On another note, the internet is a WONDERFUL place to discuss good and bad experiences with vendors. Posting about bad experiences is not vendor bashing. There is a difference....maybe too subtle for some to understand I suppose. Forum posting about vendor expereinces is nothing more than an internet community of public opinion. The thing to remember is that ALL vendors are subject to it. There can be good and bad experience posts about all vendors. In the end, it will be the actions of the vendors themselves that dictate whether any long term patterns emerge.

I agree with JB (a mod here on SVT):

This is exactly what I am trying to say.

Not all vendors are afraid of internet criticism....why is that? Talk to a few of them and they will tell you that they let their business practices speak for themselves. They understand that if you have a bunch of happy customers, and few unhappy ones, the deadly pattern of constant criticism doesn't happen. Sure, there are always a few unhappy folks making a few stinging posts, but the long term on going pattern of criticism of a particular vendor never materializes unless there is a long string of unhappy customers.

Its that simple. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Its up to the readers to judge for themselves whether they see a pattern that raises concern.

Now, before I get slammed or gang banged by people trying to defend something they feel is right, remember I am only playing devils advocate.

I do not know both sides of this story! and as such I will not join a side, I'm just here giving my $.02 to try to get some of you to think a few things through. Everyone always talks about "The 2 sides to every story" but seldom do most people really try to KNOW both sides.

Doug Holloway
BilletFlow

 

[DEFYANT]

Review of a vendors product or service should not be censored. If praise is allowed to stand, so should criticism. I believe MM.net has a Reviews area for just such purpose. Praise or Rant, say your peice and go away.

Perhaps this is what SVTP.com needs?

We dont need threads that go on and on.... like this one.

 

[DEFYANT]

Oh yeah,

Welcome aboard Mac. This place needs another straight shooter. I think you took the record on the longest #1 post on a message board.

:coolman:

 

[SergntMac]

Thank you, Doug and Mike, for intelligent replies.

My intent was to stimulate thinking on the problem of people taking their issues to the Internet, and both of you have responded with views that have merit. IMHO, what's posted on the Internet these days, is no better than that which we read from the wall in a public toilet, and it's written here with the same intent. It's easy to slander, and truth is rare.

"Where there is smoke, there is fire" is one way to view this issue, but that just another game of stats too. If only one voice speaks out with disappointment, and no one challenges the accusations, that's 100 percent disapproval, and 100 percent truth, correct? I agree that the "contractor" is not protected here, which is good. But, what about the truth? Is the truth valid here too?

How many victims are there? And, over how many years of business? Can any of us brag that we have not disappointed someone in our lives? Does disappointment allow them to vent that over the Internet? Moreover, how does the "contractor's" efforts to heal specific complaints and pay out a refund stand in this? Has the consumer's issues recieved attention? Explanation? Has money been refunded?

If "the end justifies the means", where oh where does it end? Just last week, I purchased a gallon of milk at a 7-11 near my home. It tasted funny, so, I returned it for an even exchange. Is it proper for me to stand on the sidewalk with a sign that says "this 7-11 sells sour milk"? I think not. Once I have been made whole again, my complaint addressed, the topic should be closed.

Many of you are members of a labor union at work. Do you not have a grievance policy/proceedure? What is the outcome of the average grievance? Is it not a correction of the records involved, a restoration of lost salary and status? Isn't it true that the employer and employee wipe the slate clean and get back to work?

The invitation was to tell stories, both good and bad. My story (if it's the same contractor I'm thinking of) is neither good or bad, it's just my story, and I wouldn't be where I am at today without it living it. Yet, my story earns me disapproval here, and why? If everyone who has a story to tell logged in here and told it, the overall picture would be much different than it appears now. There are literally thousands of content customers of this "contractor", are we all liars? Is a content customer always a cronie?

On one hand, I don't believe the opening post is legit, but I won't challenge y'all's decision to let it stand credible. Y'all made that decision before I got here. But, I think it's odd how this has unfolded. In other circumstances, it would not have survived a customary credibility test. Accepting that, I disagree with the poster's actions here. His problems have been addressed, and money refunded, what is there to comment on?

Gentlemen, I was raised a Catholic, and we have a process for fixing our errors. We confess our sins, admit our fault to our Lord through a human priest, and we accept His pennance through this priest. There is an agreement of confidence with the priest, a non-disclosure agreement. After this, we are considered to have a clean slate on the matters confessed. We are taught that God's forgivness is great, no sin is not eligble for His forgivness. So, I ask, at what point does can a businessman consider his pennance served?

In the case at hand, it seems easy to throw stones. Just another jerk-off rip-off con man, yes? The town whore is walking Main street again, buyer beware she's a he.

But, sharing this comes with a price. Any man who wants to bust out on a vendor over the Internet, is no better than the whore. It's cheap, easy, one-sided and wholly unfair, moreso when facts about compensation and agreement on issues are left out of the detail.

Think about it, because next time we allow ourselves to roll in this mud, it may be about you.

 

[MENACE]

Dant Dant Dant.......DEFENDER OF THE VENDOR

Any man who wants to bust out on a vendor over the Internet, is no better than the whore.

Seems to me that you've become his whore! I know you guys are friends and go to bbq's and what not together but your getting a lot of blisters on your fingers for this guy, ah? Does he not have a computer or mind to speak for himself? You might as well stop wasting space cuz your not going to stop people from telling their stories. ah?

That being said........When I first bought my Marauder I called this vendor for plugs, stat and a chip. The guy was such an ass on the phone (****y,arrogant,inconsiderate) and seemed more annoyed than happy that I had called him to do business with. Needless to say, I have never done business with him again.

So thats my story of doing business with this vendor and I'm sure there will be many more from others. So swallow hard and get used to it.

Its to bad your friend Mary(another friend and defender of the vendor and powertrippin button pusher at MM.net) can't delete this thread or my post like she would over there, ah!

Remember, sometimes the TRUTH hurts.

 

[Faststang23]

I agree on a couple of points, any person that is in business is not going to make every one happy, the larger the customer base the greater chances increase that the Vendor is not going to make every one happy, when that happens all you can do is try and make it right, I ordered parts for my Mustang from Summit Racing they took three weeks to get here, I called till I was blue in the face, finally I got a customer service supervisor, and I was credited the shipping which was fair to me.

Now look at this post, there are 45 posts and only 19 members replying, So you have this company selling car parts to thousands of customers, as far as I can see is he has less than 4% dissatisfaction rate, out of 2000 or more customers. I do not think Summit Racing Jegs or any other Company has that low of a rate. Now there is no way any one could respond to the post # 1 because any thing the vendor would say would be ignored, look at want has happened to several happy customers, that have posted here, they as Sergeant Mac stated are labeled cronies, this shows no matter what is said. There are those here that do not want to hear it, and only want to bash the vendor, you have some members here that have posted six or more times rebutting any thing any one says not in his defense but just as being a happy customer.

Now look at the posts here as, I understand this, there were three companies that were making SC kits for the Marauder, a car that is no longer in production. There are eight members from one company, three from another, and one from a company that never sold these kits, as I am aware of the last company you had to send them the car for a complete conversion for over $17,000 so it appears the people that are the most vocal and complaining the loudest have bought from the competition.

Vendor complaints are valid, but if a member writes a favorable post you are bashed, this is what I disagree with, and it violates what the moderators have posted here, OK he has a complaint, and I am not making light of that. But its also evident there are a few here just trying to run him in the ground.

 

[2Marauders]

I agree on a couple of points, any person that is in business is not going to make every one happy, the larger the customer base the greater chances increase that the Vendor is not going to make every one happy, when that happens all you can do is try and make it right, I ordered parts for my Mustang from Summit Racing they took three weeks to get here, I called till I was blue in the face, finally I got a customer service supervisor, and I was credited the shipping which was fair to me.

Now look at this post, there are 45 posts and only 19 members replying, So you have this company selling car parts to thousands of customers, as far as I can see is he has less than 4% dissatisfaction rate, out of 2000 or more customers. I do not think Summit Racing Jegs or any other Company has that low of a rate. Now there is no way any one could respond to the post # 1 because any thing the vendor would say would be ignored, look at want has happened to several happy customers, that have posted here, they as Sergeant Mac stated are labeled cronies, this shows no matter what is said. There are those here that do not want to hear it, and only want to bash the vendor, you have some members here that have posted six or more times rebutting any thing any one says not in his defense but just as being a happy customer.

Now look at the posts here as, I understand this, there were three companies that were making SC kits for the Marauder, a car that is no longer in production. There are eight members from one company, three from another, and one from a company that never sold these kits, as I am aware of the last company you had to send them the car for a complete conversion for over $17,000 so it appears the people that are the most vocal and complaining the loudest have bought from the competition.

Vendor complaints are valid, but if a member writes a favorable post you are bashed, this is what I disagree with, and it violates what the moderators have posted here, OK he has a complaint, and I am not making light of that. But its also evident there are a few here just trying to run him in the ground.

My observations too. That's why I haven't posted in this thread. I suppose most of the people know my opinion so why bother saying it again and getting blasted for it.

 

[bigdogjim]

Yeah right!

That being said........When I first bought my Marauder I called this vendor for plugs, stat and a chip. The guy was such an ass on the phone (****y,arrogant,inconsiderate) and seemed more annoyed than happy that I had called him to do business with. Needless to say, I have never done business with him again.

OK! I look upon this post and think to myself you call this vendor arrogant, inconsiderate and some other things. One phone call? I wonder what would happen if you whet into a food store and to wait more than 10-20 minutes to check out! Or got a sour gallon of milk at store one night? If we were to judge you by your post what and the amount of bitterness you post what conclusion would we draw? So over one phone call you’re an expert on this vendor? Looking at track records I have to laugh at you. Read your own posts sometime! Same rant time and time again. The other web site is "unfair" proud that you been banned over what you call posting the truth? Hell you would not know the truth if slapped upside your head! IN this case with 1of328 and the problems in Detroit you were no near that town when this transpired! All you posting is "hear say" No facts anywhere! I will tell you one more time.

I was their spent two full days helping this member out I know both side of this story. One thing that really bothers me is why this man posted under a different screen name? Goes to open a whole can of worms!

No one will ever convince me that issues like this will be settled over the Internet when the posting is not 100% factually. Members jump in and post their point of view that they think is fact when in the truth of the matter they are just feeding off the mis-information of others then personal attacks start. Members call other members drunks over the Internet!

Trash pure and simple!

 

[Tallboy]

This thread should have been locked after the first post. Read it, and take away from it what you will. There's two sides to every fence:

The folks on one side have had bad, in some cases very bad, expiriences with this vendor. I believe they genuinely want to prevent it from happening to anyone else. However, not all vendors have exclusively bad expiriences, isn't it possible the vendor in question may indeed have some very satisfied and happy customers? The people on this side of the fence point to other side and call them "cronies".

The other-side-of-the-fence folks have had good, in some cases excellent, expiriences with this vendor. I believe they genuinely want others to have good expiriences as well. However, isn't is possible the nay-sayers have some truth on thier side? The people on this side of the fence point to the other side and call them "bashers".

You're going to beleive whatever you want to believe. What others beleive won't change this. But, let's just for a moment play a game here, shall we? Let's say I cut and paste post#1 and simply re-post it on similar auto-related boards around the internet. How much you wanna bet me damn near everyone will know exactly who we're talking about?

Why do you think that is?

 

[bigdogjim]

I Think!

Why do you think that is?

I think that only the people who have delt with the vendor in question should comment about the said vendor. Other are fanning the flames!
It's members who "jump" on a "bandwagon" not knowing the facts that cause the issues.

Now that being said have you personally dealt with the vendor in question?

Next?

 

[Tallboy]

I think that only the people who have delt with the vendor in question should comment about the said vendor. Other are fanning the flames!
It's members who "jump" on a "bandwagon" not knowing the facts that cause the issues.

Now that being said have you personally dealt with the vendor in question?

Next?

Have I personally dealt with the vendor in question?

Yes. I called him when I first got my Marauder and I wanted HIM to supercharge it! I just wanted a few questions answered first, as I was a "newbie" and did not know about the differences bewteen the available products. I told him I had specific questions about the Trilogy [since he is an authorized installer] and I was told "Well, if you're considering a Trilogy, you're just stupid, cuz mine's better". [That is verbatim, my friend. I remember the conversation well.] Now, I understand about certain people and thier ways, but I felt he did not know me well enough to talk to me this way.

Now, you may be thinking "OK, so you base your opinion on ONE phone call?" You would be wrong. I have since called him numerous times, and have ordered parts from him TWICE since then, spending hundreds of dollars. Care to know how THOSE transactions went?

How many times, and how much money have YOU spent with him, old buddy?

 

[MENACE]

OK! I look upon this post and think really??? to myself you call this vendor arrogant, inconsiderate and some other things. One phone call? I wonder what would happen if you whet(went) into a food store and (had) to wait more than 10-20 minutes to check out! Or got a sour gallon of milk at store one night? If we were to judge you by your post what( :??: ) and the amount of bitterness you post what conclusion would we draw? So over one phone call you’re an expert on this vendor? Looking at track records I have to laugh at you. Read your own posts sometime! Maybe you should start rereading yours and check your spelling and misuse or lack of some words, then we can understand better what your trying to say! Same rant time and time again. The other web site is "unfair"(something missing here? :shrug: ) proud that you(have) been banned over what you call posting the truth? Hell you would not know the truth if(it) slapped(you) upside your head! In this case with 1of328 and the problems in Detroit you were no(not or where, I don't know he's losing me now :sleeping: ) near that town when this transpired! All you(r) posting is "hear say" No facts anywhere! How about the fact that I called him and he was an ass on the phone? That don't count? I will tell you one more time.

I was their(there) spent two full days helping this member out I know both side(s) of this story. One thing that really bothers me is why this man posted under a different screen name? Goes to open a whole(new)? can of worms!

No one will ever convince me that issues like this will be settled over the Internet when the posting is not 100% factually(factual). Members jump in and post their point of view that they think is fact I did in fact call him and he was in fact an ass! when in the truth of the matter they are just feeding off the mis-information of others then personal attacks start. Members call other members drunks over the Internet!

Trash pure and simple!

Maybe you should take another break and collect your thoughts! I know it won't be easy, but try. I hate to have to put words in your thoughts, but somebody has to. Your coming off as a big dumbass southern boy. Also, why don't you come up with your own example's rather than use Mac's? (sour milk)

We all know you are just another defender of the vendor and the Truth and not having friends here to delete it is killing you and some others.

 

[bigdogjim]

Yeah right!

We all know you are just another defender of the vendor and the Truth and not having friends here to delete it is killing you and some others.

Well our writing styles are not the same it's the Internet not English class.

No it does not trouble me one little bit that I have no friends here to delete your trash. You on the other hand have no proof!

Truth equals proof.

A concept your will never understand!

 

[bigdogjim]

How much!

How many times, and how much money have YOU spent with him, old buddy?

Well I just sent him a check last week and my parts arrived at the install shop as promised!

OK "Buddy" balls in your court!

 

[Tallboy]

Well I just him a check last week and my parts arrived at the install shop as promised!

OK "Buddy" balls in your court!

Well, then-good for you! I'm happy you recieved good service, although I am a bit suprised you are actually modding your car-good suprised though!

However...

I find it interesting you edit out the part of my post you'd rather not address.

 

[MENACE]

Well I just (sent) him a check last week and my parts arrived at the install shop as promised!

OK "Buddy" balls in your court!

 

[MENACE]

Well, then-good for you! I'm happy you recieved good service, although I am a bit suprised you are actually modding your car-good suprised though!

:uh oh: Its just some malfunctioning fuzzy dice. :-D

 

[MENACE]

I think that only the people who have delt (dealt) with the vendor in question should comment about the said vendor.

This is true, and includes myself.

 

[dougwg]

snip...Your coming off as a big dumbass southern boy...snip

Please refrain from using derogatory remarks. :nonono:

 

[bigdogjim]

Ok!

I find it interesting you edit out the part of my post you'd rather not address.

Thank you for the PM.

Now I understand the part about the edit.

Let me go on record as saying that this is the first time I have really got involved with a vendor for the marauder.

You had a bad experience OK. More than once? You’re an unhappy customer. I do not work for the vendor and I am not in charge of customer service. As "friend" of your's I am very sorry that you received poor service. Move on find what you need some place else. Not much you can do once your "burned"

Now tell me of another vendor for marauder parts that can match what this vendor sells in range of products?

I am very happy with the service I received from this vendor.