Lessons Learned

[bigdogjim]

No

^^^ Jim, good to see you found someone to type for you. ^^^ :thumbsup:

You know I did it all by myself!

Are you employed by SVT as a grammar and English coach?

 

[BigMerc]

In your case Bigmerc, you seem to have given your special attention to me. I like that fact! Nothing more personal than having my own stalker :beer:

So you got the flowers?...... good :lol:

 

[DJP]

Well guys, I can tell you for sure that Kieth is the author of the first post.

SergntMac, you should know this since you have spoken with him on the phone several times and even have sent him a few emails of questionable intent implying he is not a good Chaplain and such. To do so to a guy like him is hurtful and inconsiderate to say the least.

Your not going to see Kieth come on here again and get in a posting war with you. That is not the guys way of doing things. I spoke to him today and he feels that his opening post was relevent and said what he needed to say in his own words. He is satisfied with getting the word out and feels no need to insult other people or see shortcomings in personal ethics by coming here and engaging. Those of you who do not believe it is him send him a pm on MM.net or get his phone number and call him to verify (can't argue with something like that).

Facts are a few people would love to call Kieth into question, and his story, and his life calling/profession but that does not detract from the truth of things. A few people would love to see this thread shut down, hence the antics. Whatever. If he has been reimbursed, GREAT! It only took some posting on the net after a few weeks of being insulted on the phone after he had sent in the parts and all repair paperwork.

Want to slam, come and slam me, I don't particularly care.

Hmmmmm. Interesting. Any comment on this, Sarge?

 

[DJP]

Sarge? Logan? Contractor?

 

[MENACE]

You know I did it all by myself!

Are (you) employed by SVT as a grammar and English coach?

No, just trying to help out the less fortunate. oke:

 

[2Marauders]

This just goes on and on doesn't it... I don't pretend to know all the details, but have heard some pieces from both sides.

A couple of observations:

At first I thought the opening thread could be referring to another car that went into an extensive modification project which was not well defined in the beginning. The project scope kept changing, the schedule kept slipping, the costs kept climbing, the first built engine broke and required replacing, and in the end the car was impractical for regular street use. Lots of common ideas there, mainly be sure to define the project and spell out details up front or you're in for some surprises.

I have done background checks (basically internet searches for negative reports) on several vendors I have done business with and guess what I found: Lots of negative comments. But I did business with them anyway and didn't get burned, in some cases even got exceptional service. I believe part of the reason this particular thread has gone on so long is due to the personalities involved.

 

[SergntMac]

I'm done with this.

Hmmmmm. Interesting. Any comment on this, Sarge?

Nothing of substance, I've had my say.

I do want to say thanks to Tim and Chuck for spending some time on the telephone with me yesterday. Clarity in meaning is always good.

I see no reason to change my position on things, but let me clarify that one more time, for those who feel I am only protecting a "cronie".

1) This never should have been posted on the Internet, it serves no one well. It results in us bickering with each other, and building unjustified dislike for each other because we have different views, different stories, and opposing opinions. It tears up existing friendships, and stalls the growth of new friendships.

2) It gets the complainant(s) nothing in recovery, and allows the "contractor" to continue on without restraint.

Failure to take proper action in consumer fraud cases only allows the fraudlent to continue defrauding. If you have a complaint, take legal action. I do, I have, and I have a matter pending with a local businessman right now. There are remedies in place to protect you from fraud and bad business practices, use them, exhaust them. Posting a flame in the manner "1of328" has, is a waste of time. Lacking correct details makes it all useless, we will argue forever who said, or, did what, and when. Even now, some here a certain who the "contractor" is, while others have no clue. Only "1of328" can identify him.

TMac mentions that I treated Keith poorly, thank you for pointing this out. I've looked at that detail again, and I stand by my comments to him, both over the phone and in e-mail.

I've lost an important and valuable friendship in this mess, and I didn't have anything to do with any of it, other than be a friend who was asked for advice. The toll climbs as the rest of you squabble over what is right, or, wrong here, but there will never be any resolution to the core problem. I'm not confirming anything, however, if Keith is the author, and this is his story, he made a choice. A clear decision to take this path. The rest of us can only react, and deal with the side effects. This is why this stuff doesn't belong here, it just creates more victims.

BTW, the local businessman I mentioned? He has a "five star" rating on the Internet among local enthusiaists and semi-pros. Go figure...

 

[MENACE]

1) This never should have been posted on the Internet, it serves no one well.

2) It gets the complainant(s) nothing in recovery, and allows the "contractor" to continue on without restraint.

3) It does help to warn others. :shrug:

 

[DEFYANT]

Has anyone ever checked the better business buero?

 

[BillyGman]

1) This never should have been posted on the Internet, it serves no one well. It results in us bickering with each other, and building unjustified dislike for each other because we have different views, different stories, and opposing opinions. It tears up existing friendships, and stalls the growth of new friendships.

...

Nothing can be further from the truth than this statement above^

If anyone's friendship is real and not imaginary, nor a pretence, then it can and will survive any internet debates, as well as any debate in person. And if it cannot survive simply because one of the parties in question decides to write about the unfair treatment he received after spending his money, then the alleged "friendship" wasn't that meaningfull nor strong to begin with. In fact, if that's the case, then the alleged "friendship" didn't really exist in the first place. True friendships are strongeer than that, and can endure such things.

Many of the vendors make big money off of the business that the internet generates for them and that in itself is a good thing. However, it's because they make good money off of the internet, that they will tow the line and make an extra effort to treat their customers right, but ONLY IF they know that their customers will be allowed to speak their mind on the internet IF they aren't treated fairly. It's called accountability, and as board members we can have that on our side ONLY if we are allowed to speak our mind about things that we've already spoken to the vendor in question about, but nothing was aknowledged, rectified, nor changed.

But the vendors who are dishonest will never be concerned about any of that and therefore will never be accountable, IF they know that they will be protected and their sleezy practices will be concealed through severe censorship of internet chat. And such censorship is an injustice to the board members who spend their thousands of hard earned dollars on vendor services and parts. The fact is, that it's us who financially support these car boards and NOT the vendors, because had it not been for us paying the vendors BIG money for car modifications and parts, then none of them would ever be financially "supporting" vendors of any car board in the first place. So it is US who should be catered to, and NOT the vendors.

But part of the problem is, that we get certain people who want to play internet sherriff all the time, and report somebody's post to board moderators as being a "bad' post, whenever they see someone attempting to warn others about a dishonest practice of a vendor. So those so called "friendships" come to an end, because someone appoints themself to be an arrogant post sherriff of sorts on certain car boards. If you don't like what's posted in a thread that someone starts, then don't read it. Move on!!! And w/out reporting it to the moderators!!! BTW, it's funny how almost all of the complaints seem to be about the same vendor. Hey! Maybe, just maybe there might just be some truth to all of what's said, or atleast most of it. Maybe this might be a pattern with that vendor. :idea:

 

[tmac1337]

1) This never should have been posted on the Internet, it serves no one well. I disagree, at least Kieth has just recouped 25 cents on the dollar, a quarter of his losses, check must be in the mail for the rest...Now maybe we should talk about compensation per mile put on his car during "test and ill-tuning" 14K miles, and discuss where the 10K to 25K to well over 30K went to? :nonono:

2) It gets the complainant(s) nothing in recovery, and allows the "contractor" to continue on without restraint. Not true. How bout self respect. Vendor reaps what he sows due to customer awareness.

Failure to take proper action in consumer fraud cases only allows the fraudlent to continue defrauding. If you have a complaint, take legal action. Maybe we should take up a "Kieth's legal compensation fund", sounds like a worthy cause. I agree here with you Mac. Do you know a good lawyer?

I've lost an important and valuable friendship in this mess, and I didn't have anything to do with any of it, other than be a friend who was asked for advice. Kieth does not owe any of us anything. He is a big boy and can post what he wants. I'm sure he still considers you a friend, kinda guy he is.

Another chapter added to a voluminous book.

 

[maraudernkc]

I am glad that SVT has left this thread up. I am asuming that the orginal thread starter posted this thread because he could not get any satisfaction from said vendor.

I will tell you just one of my dealings with this vendor.

I had just bought my Marauder and was looking for a tuner and gears and ordered a tuner thru Lidio and than called the vendor in question about ordering some 4:10 gears because Lidio did no have them.

I ordered my gears and the vendor asked me what I was doing about a tuner and I told him that I had ordered one from Lidio and this Vendor went on to scare the shit out of me about all the problems that Lidio had with his tunes. I knew no better and cancled my order with Lidio and placed it with the vendor in question. Now I know that I was lied to. I have many more dealings that I won't share today.

I am a vendor and I want to know if I have an unhappy customer. I will do whatever I can to satisfy this unhappy customer.

The vendor in question is the only vendor that I know of that has a website about all his shady dealings. I think that this website speaks volumes about how many people that this vendor has done wrong.

 

[tmac1337]

This thread has been viewed 2500 times now. Talk about illuminating.

Funny how his kit looks exactly like your kit Greg? Wonder how that happened when his first sale of his kit was 3 months later and his first install took a few months.

http://svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181942

But then again he was all over my car up at SCT with his little spy camera and statements to my face like the thing he liked the most about your design was the air intake tube crossing over the fan housing.

Then he copies it exactly, and just about everything else. Even my custom air box (which his even is not enclosed) looks the same.

You go way too easy on him.

EDIT: By the way, he told me the same stuff almost verbatum about how bad Lidio's tuning was over the phone a year before you even bought a Marauder. How many people has he told this to? How much money has Lidio lost as a result? Perhaps he should look into a lawyer too!

He sells sway bars for $170.00 plus shipping as a third party when a customer can get them from www.swaybars.com, Addco, for $149.00 FREE shipping.

 

[CrimZon]

Has anyone ever checked the better business buero?

Yes, I have checked. 1 complaint in the last 2 years which is listed as resolved with to satisfaction of the customer.

I have dealt with this contractor many times. He may be an ass on the phone, but I have never had an issue that I was dissatisfied with.

Bash me all you want... Who cares if you can buy something cheaper somewhere else? I can buy a set of speakers at best buy for $280, ohh damn, you can get them new on ebay for $60.. who gives a ****. There is always a cheaper vendor.

As to the kits looking the same? Almost every single Centrifural S/C with Intercooler setup I have seen looks the exact same for the model vehicle it is setup on.

In all my research on this contractor, I have found few people who are bitching. I spent an hour or two on the Truth website about this contractor to figure out what people were saying. It appears to be 5 or 6 people who were pissed off about something, and taking anything, that anyone said about the vendor and exagerating it, even if the person ordered the wrong part, and was compensated for shipping it back.

I am all for warning people about bad vendors. I'm glad there was so much good and bad information about this vendor. The conclusion of my research was 10-20 hard core bitchers, out of a 2,000+ customer base, with lots of satisfied customers. Anytime a satisfied customer posts, the bitchers jump on them, so they just give up.

That said... I guess I'm branded one of the idiots who likes this contractor.. To each his own. :beer:

 

[BillyGman]

The conclusion of my research was 10-20 hard core bitchers, out of a 2,000+ customer base, with lots of satisfied customers. :

Really? Have you checked on the Thunderbird board??? he cannot even go on that board anymore.

 

[rocknrod]

Really? Have you checked on the Thunderbird board??? he cannot even go on that board anymore.

Who is HE?
You guys are speaking in codes. So I guess there is only a handfull of you who know what this is all about??????
WHO?
Your killin me over here.

 

[CrimZon]

Really? Have you checked on the Thunderbird board??? he cannot even go on that board anymore.

No, I never checked the Thunderbird board. But the way I see it here, anyone else that supports this Vendor gets bashed, and ousted the second they post. And this is done by 3-4 people on SVTP alone! "Ohh, your just a pawn for bunny whoever at mm.net, blah blah..."

If people have so many problems, why is there only one complaint filed with the BBB? The reason they are there is to mediate issues and warn people about businesses. I dont give much credit to an anonymous person hiding behind a screen name.

 

[DJP]

Yes, I have checked. 1 complaint in the last 2 years which is listed as resolved with to satisfaction of the customer.

I have dealt with this contractor many times. He may be an ass on the phone, but I have never had an issue that I was dissatisfied with.

Bash me all you want... Who cares if you can buy something cheaper somewhere else? I can buy a set of speakers at best buy for $280, ohh damn, you can get them new on ebay for $60.. who gives a ****. There is always a cheaper vendor.

As to the kits looking the same? Almost every single Centrifural S/C with Intercooler setup I have seen looks the exact same for the model vehicle it is setup on.

In all my research on this contractor, I have found few people who are bitching. I spent an hour or two on the Truth website about this contractor to figure out what people were saying. It appears to be 5 or 6 people who were pissed off about something, and taking anything, that anyone said about the vendor and exagerating it, even if the person ordered the wrong part, and was compensated for shipping it back.

I am all for warning people about bad vendors. I'm glad there was so much good and bad information about this vendor. The conclusion of my research was 10-20 hard core bitchers, out of a 2,000+ customer base, with lots of satisfied customers. Anytime a satisfied customer posts, the bitchers jump on them, so they just give up.

That said... I guess I'm branded one of the idiots who likes this contractor.. To each his own. :beer:

If you had no knowledge of the Thunderbird Board, your research is incomplete and skewed......not to mention pretty biased.

What has you reseach concluded in quantifying the number of unsatisified customers that are neither "hard core bitchers" or BBB posters, or has your research concluded that this group does not exist?

 

[DJP]

BTW, if you want to check out satisfied customers, and ONLY satisfied customers, check the.net.

 

[STLR FN]

Dennis Reinhart is he they speak of.

Who is HE?
You guys are speaking in codes. So I guess there is only a handfull of you who know what this is all about??????
WHO?
Your killin me over here.