Lessons Learned

1of328

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Wanted to share my lessons learned on my MM mods project. Hope that others will benefit from this.

1. Have a legal and binding contract. Make sure the contract specifies everything. Miles cap, movements of your vehicle, parts to be used, regular communication and contact, etc.

2. Have "walk away" rights in your contract.

3. Require regular contact from the builder. Require specific dates or days of the week when they must reach you.

4. Pay regular visits to the shop. Don't make appointments, just show up. You may find a third party has taken your car on a test drive without your knowledge or consent. Or worse yet, that the person is singing the praises of your car in the first person on the internet.

5. Require hard copy receipts for all toll booths passed through in your car. Otherwise you may receive written warnings or tickets from the highway patrol. In addition, put into the contract that the car will stop at all yellow lights. Red light violations are payed by the owner of the license plate, and the points go to you also.

6. Require full disclosures on everything, where your car is going, why it or a part of it is going there, etc. Otherwise someone in your family may see your car a show or cruise night several hundred miles away from the location of the shop and no trailer in sight. Or the big name parts/major components you think you are getting may be replaced by salvage yard or generic parts.

7. Make the builder account for all miles on your car. Demand to see a miles logbook, with explanations for the trip.

8. Require that the tune be verified. Otherwise the 14k put on your odometer when you receive your car after the year plus project might only be 11k miles. The program may be flashed for 3:55s rather than the 4:30s that have been installed. Or your timing, air/fuel, smog, cats, etc. may be heading for catastrophic failure.

9. Verify the condition of your catalytic convertors before accepting the car or making the final payments. Otherwise your car may fail smog.

10. When your car is being transported, require that it be in an enclosed trailer and with soft tie down straps. Otherwise there may be rock, stone, hail, insect, etc. damage to your vehicle.

11. Have a cap on the number of dragstrip passes your car should make, especially if you are not a drag racer yourself. Otherwise your car could be headed for catastrophic failure of motor, transmission, rear end, etc.

12. Let the buyer beware. Put everything into the contract. Don't expect that all will be done the way you want it to be done. Don't rely on the contractor to do the right thing, micromanage everything. Or you don't have any redress.

13. Avoid a durable or extensive power of attorney. It takes your rights away. Have a very narrow and specific power of attorney for the contractor.

14. When the contractor buys a part or a system, like a six speed transmission, verify that the contractor can actually complete the conversion. Don't pay for parts up front, you may never see the money back.

15. Require the contractor to do all the necessary dyno pulls and adjustments for your tune. Otherwise, you may have to pay for all of the additional pulls and tuning adjustments at high dollar expense. Make that be a part of the contract.

16. Put a cap on the amount of money the contractor can spend. Don't let a 10k project become a 25k project. Don't give the contractor a blank check, and do not allow the contractor to make charges to you credit card. Require explanations first.

17. Get an itemized bill. Otherwise, you have no clue what was spend on your car or why. This should go without saying, but put it into the contract.


There are likely more lessons learned that are not posted here. But after a very expensive project, there are a number of things that came out. Those things should be available to others. People have the right to know. Like the numbers of motors, transmissions, rear ends, etc. lost during a project. Like the items by cost and the individual hours of labor billed for each element or portion of the project.

I made a lot of mistakes on this project. Some were my own fault. Most of them were not. I would never build another car without much more control, much more information, and much more awareness over the process.

Let the buyer beware, and hold the builder accountable.
 

Tallboy

Say "When"...
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Amen.

It's unfortunate, what happened to you. Thanks for the advice you've given us, hopefully it will prevent others from making similar mistakes down the road. I wish you all the best.
 

tmac1337

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Father, as a Chaplain I know that this was hard for you to do.

I know from experience that when truthful accounts such as these are posted it opens oneself to personal attacks for telling the truth, but do not detract from the truth and demean yourself at a lower level, some folks just need to be caught up to speed, stand tall and keep you principals.
 
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dougwg

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wow... just wow....

How can a man sleep at night knowing he treated another person this way?
 

tmac1337

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dougwg said:
wow... just wow....

How can a man sleep at night knowing he treated another person this way?

Ooooops
 
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Fourth Horseman

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dougwg said:
wow... just wow....

How can a man sleep at night knowing he treated another person this way?

I don't know any specifics of the case, so I can't comment on any of that, but I do know the car owner and I can say that he's one of the nicest, most upstanding and fairest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. When he talks I listen, and this thread is no exception.
 
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DJP

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Just when you think you have heard the worst.....it gets worse. I assume that you have exhausted your legal options and are now just another victim of a well seasoned shyster. :nonono:

A few more lessons learned:

18. If contractor has installed a new exhaust system, check to see if the hot pipes are resting and rattling on the gas tank....heaven can wait.

19. Advise contractor against taking your car to a cheap car wash without your permission, and then blame the swirl marks on "some dumb
n-word at your dealership up in New York."

20. Confront contractor for charging you for a tune that does not feel any different from the factory tune.

21. Hold other entreprenuers accountable for steering members in the wrong direction because financial interests exceed member interests.
 
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bigdogjim

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There is a lot more to this story that has been psoted.

I have first hand info on only some of this.

There are always two side to every story.

But the narrow minded will take this and run...............

No one wins with this kind of posting.

Keep you mind open and your mouth shut!
 

tmac1337

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bigdogjim said:
There is a lot more to this story that has been psoted.

I have first hand info on only some of this.

There are always two side to every story.

But the narrow minded will take this and run...............

No one wins with this kind of posting.

Keep you mind open and your mouth shut!


Truth is he is too trustful, too honest, too caring, too open, too turn the other cheek, and was greatly taken advantage of.

Where did you get ur info. from? I am pretty sure a Chaplain is a little more honest..........
 
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Ironhand

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I feel your pain bro. Just give me a call or PM me and I got your back. :)

I hope thses criminals die alone, poor, and unhappy. And so what if a bullet was to speed up the process, wouldn't bother me none. :)
 

jstevens

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bigdogjim said:
There is a lot more to this story that has been psoted.

I have first hand info on only some of this.

There are always two side to every story.

But the narrow minded will take this and run...............

No one wins with this kind of posting.

Keep you mind open and your mouth shut!

Stay on some other site where bullsh!t goes on.
I'd be pissed too if someone f*cked up my car on my dime. I've met 1of328 as well and can say he is a rather nice and trustful fella.
 

MarauderTJA

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Getting screwed in money spent is one thing that is wrong to start with. But putting 14,000 miles on my car, drag racing my car, receiving tickets blowng through toll booths with my car. :mj: I would be hard pressed to contain myself. :cuss:
 

BillyGman

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Thanks for your effort to warn all of us, by telling us what happened to you. I think it's very obvious to most of us what vendor did this to you. there's only one that I know of who's that bad, but I'm sure there are others out there. I'm very sorry to hear of this happening to you, and to your car. Please don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not trying to kick you when you're down, but I for one would never trust any vendor or speed shop with my car for one year. Whether I was overseas or not. However, if you are who I think you are, thankyou for serving your country. It's a shame that the vendor who is also supposed to be a veteran, doesn't respect his fellow veterans.
 
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bigdogjim

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Advise?

jstevens said:
Stay on some other site where bullsh!t goes on.
I'd be pissed too if someone f*cked up my car on my dime. I've met 1of328 as well and can say he is a rather nice and trustful fella.

No you saying their is no BS over here?
 

bigslim

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I am really sorry to hear this happened to you 1of328. I know you and I have found you you to be one of the most respectful people I have ever met. I hope that all of this delt with. I will not speak what I know and have heard about the person in question. I am sure it has already been said. Good luck with all of this.
 

rocknrod

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I'm wondering......
Is there a company or person I should stay away from here ?
Who is it and where are they ?
Someone PM me?!
I have a 2004 Black Marauder I want to do some mods on and this concerns me. Know what I mean?, I think you do!
 

racer_zero

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Keith's Ass Terms

1. No performance shop would ever agree to these terms, so I guess you had better learn to work on your car yourself. Present this list to KB or Foose, etc... And they will laugh in your face right before they ban you from their respective shop's forever.

2. You went on record not more than 5 months ago saying how great everything was and what a good job this vendor did, how much you loved the car and the job that was done. Then (or now) after the vendor refuses to be blackmailed/extorted by you, you post this. The hypocrisy on your part is astounding, but then again I have come to expect it from the clergy, practice what I preach not as I do is your mantra these days.
 
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tmac1337

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Guys, do not reply to personal attacks and demean yourselves.

.
 
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klmore

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racer_zero said:
Keith's Ass Terms

1. No performance shop would ever agree to these terms, so I guess you had better learn to work on your car yourself. Present this list to KB or Foose, etc... And they will laugh in your face right before they ban you from their respective shop's forever.

2. You went on record not more than 5 months ago saying how great everything was and what a good job this vendor did, how much you loved the car and the job that was done. Then (or now) after the vendor refuses to be blackmailed/extorted by you, you post this. The hypocrisy on your part is astounding, but then again I have come to expect it from the clergy, practice what I preach not as I do is your mantra these days....(edited by JB)


While I agree with some of what you said, there is a better way to convey your point without insulting people. :nonono:

I have spent a great deal of money with the shop in question and had a very good experience. I actually build cars for other people, but choose to send my own car off so I could focus on what pays my bills. With that said I have inspected my car and had it inspected by others for any errors made by the said vendor and have found nothing but quality work.

Keith's opinion was very important in my decision in sending my car to this shop. I have never spoken to Keith, but his posts on MM.net were positive and I figured his job gave him a certain amount of credibility in my book. If Keith had problems with this vendor and did not speak up for all to hear than he did himself and others a terrible disservice.

I think this thing has gotten way out of control, but we can still be civil to one another while we argue about it.
 
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