HPTuners for Coyote platform is coming along very well!

[JUIC3D]

If HP Tuners logging is better, the software has more descriptions for 2011-2014 strategies, more PCM scalars/functions/tables, direct flash capabilities for local tuning, eventual handheld for multiple tunes & remote work, a C-level software environment that works better/faster than .NET, and someone like Eric to handle access & tech requests in a responsive fashion...why even bother comparing it to SCT?

Exactly.. HPT does use .NET though but I never found it to be an issue.

Also, the HPT forums are extremely helpful. They don't give handouts, but if you formulate a well thought-out question with an issue or you're stuck, there are very knowledgeable people who will help you. If you post up some garbage like "i installed this cam, now what?" then you get no replies. lol

 

[D.T.R]

Exactly.. HPT does use .NET though but I never found it to be an issue.

Also, the HPT forums are extremely helpful. They don't give handouts, but if you formulate a well thought-out question with an issue or you're stuck, there are very knowledgeable people who will help you. If you post up some garbage like "i installed this cam, now what?" then you get no replies. lol

My response would be: "what about the other 3 cams?" :lol1:

 

[yngrshr]

It will read anything that is flashed into your PCM. HP Tuners tunes that are flashed in will be able to be read out by anyone else with the ability to read a tune file out.

We may possibly enable PCM locking, which will prevent anyone but the person that locked the PCM from reading/writing the PCM, but that is undecided. We do that on GM. It is a support nightmare, because if you lose your interface, your PCM is useless, as the Ford dealers would not even be able to reflash them.

I hope that most of the Ford guys who get HPTuners avoid PCM locking. I hate that garbage and I'd never use a tuner who used it (and used HPTuners). It's such a bunch of crap.

Granted, I understand why you guys program it in since there ARE a lot of tuners out there that use it. I just don't trust anyone that does.

 

[yngrshr]

Yes I think tune locking should be an option just like it is now with the gm based stuff, that way the tuner can use his discretion if he perfers to lock the tune or not. Otherwise you have all these "wanna be" tuners stealing others hard work and pathetically calling it theirs and making a profit on it. Too many copy and paste style tuners are already out there reaping the benefits from the real tuners work. As soon as this stuff is out people will be file sharing like crazy and even more so called tuners will be popping up just like it has in the gm market.

This happens with GM cars now and then, but the funny thing is those tuners are normally terrible and the tunes are never right on the other car. Since every car is different and all.

It's much less of a problem than you'd think.

 

[yngrshr]

The Major drawback being the Lack of a hand held device for the end user.
This means NO remote tuning.
It also means even minor changes like tire size or rear end gear ratios require in-house tune adjustments.
It also means the customer is stuck with 1 tune. No going from Gasoline to E85 for instance without visiting your tuner for a reflash.

I'm fairly sure that's inaccurate, Shaun. The end user would just buy the HPTuners device. It connects into the computer and you can upload tunes to your heart's desire remotely.

I've had my car tuned remotely for years (my old G8) by my tuner. We dyno'd it at his shop, and I got an adjustment just about every week or so during race season until it was dialed in. I installed it myself via their cable and device and my laptop.

You are also not stuck with one tune. I had multiple tunes stored on my laptop. I must have had three race tunes and two street tunes along with 30+ old, outdated tunes at one point.

Unless I am completely missing something, the remote tuning capability is the same as it is on GM cars.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I'm fairly sure that's inaccurate, Shaun. The end user would just buy the HPTuners device. It connects into the computer and you can upload tunes to your heart's desire remotely.

I've had my car tuned remotely for years (my old G8) by my tuner. We dyno'd it at his shop, and I got an adjustment just about every week or so during race season until it was dialed in. I installed it myself via their cable and device and my laptop.

You are also not stuck with one tune. I had multiple tunes stored on my laptop. I must have had three race tunes and two street tunes along with 30+ old, outdated tunes at one point.

Unless I am completely missing something, the remote tuning capability is the same as it is on GM cars.

Sure, here's the link to their products. Very similar pricing to SCT products.
HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips

Again, everything SCT can currently do. There is nothing HP tuners can do that SCT can not. There are however things SCT can do that HP tuners can not.

 

[Screamin363]

How does a person actually learn how to tune his own vehicle?

I mean it would be nice to know more about your own car but is there a class or anything to tune coyote cars. Not real eager to blow mine up but I think there is a more aggressive tune that could be had.

 

[Shaun@AED]

How does a person actually learn how to tune his own vehicle?

I mean it would be nice to know more about your own car but is there a class or anything to tune coyote cars. Not real eager to blow mine up but I think there is a more aggressive tune that could be had.

I'm a hands on kind of learner.
I bought a car for testing purposes and spent months figuring things out. Of course my previous 10 years tuning experience helped, as did my knowledge of camshafts for figuring out what each of the TiVCT functions did.

Same advice I give professional tuners that want to dive into the Coyotes. Buy one for yourself and start on all-motor tuning. I would not start with boost.

Honestly, I don't see why someone with little to no tuning experience would want to tune their brand new $30K+ vehicle. They are NOT easy to tune, in fact many of the best in the business have had their asses handed to them by a coyote. Yet more and more quality Coyote tuners are surfacing. I expect great things in the next few years from some of these guys. Best part about it is you can do nearly everything remotely now.

 

[TheVikingRL]

How does a person actually learn how to tune his own vehicle?

I mean it would be nice to know more about your own car but is there a class or anything to tune coyote cars. Not real eager to blow mine up but I think there is a more aggressive tune that could be had.

IMO, lots and lots of data logging, along with analysis and education before ever touching the fuel or timing maps. Some good books out there to help get you started, along with listening to some of the better informed tuning forum members. As Shaun and other pointed out, it's not a good plug and pray profession and even the experts have a pretty steep learning curve with some of this stuff.

 

[Screamin363]

I'm a hands on kind of learner.
I bought a car for testing purposes and spent months figuring things out. Of course my previous 10 years tuning experience helped, as did my knowledge of camshafts for figuring out what each of the TiVCT functions did.

Same advice I give professional tuners that want to dive into the Coyotes. Buy one for yourself and start on all-motor tuning. I would not start with boost.

Honestly, I don't see why someone with little to no tuning experience would want to tune their brand new $30K+ vehicle. They are NOT easy to tune, in fact many of the best in the business have had their asses handed to them by a coyote. Yet more and more quality Coyote tuners are surfacing. I expect great things in the next few years from some of these guys. Best part about it is you can do nearly everything remotely now.

But for a "hands on guy" like myself... I built my own turbo kit and nobody wanted to tune it. And I will not use a general statement, AED, Lund, JPC, TSS and Bejones to name a few.... None wanted a piece of a remote tune on this car.

This is the type of scenario where learning to tune your own car is beneficial. Trust me I hate jacking with a tune but if every small mod a guy makes needs some sort of adjustment. It can be done without a 12hr drive to get a tune revision.

Much respect to what you guys do. I just don't like holding onto a stack of parts and not putting them on because it might require another 12hr road trip.

 

[Shaun@AED]

But for a "hands on guy" like myself... I built my own turbo kit and nobody wanted to tune it. And I will not use a general statement, AED, Lund, JPC, TSS and Bejones to name a few.... None wanted a piece of a remote tune on this car.

This is the type of scenario where learning to tune your own car is beneficial. Trust me I hate jacking with a tune but if every small mod a guy makes needs some sort of adjustment. It can be done without a 12hr drive to get a tune revision.

Much respect to what you guys do. I just don't like holding onto a stack of parts and not putting them on because it might require another 12hr road trip.

I understand your frustrations with that, CPRsm does as well.
And unfortunately I have no good answer for you.
IMO proper boosted coyote calibrations require massive amounts of time to perfect. Once done it can be duplicated on similar setups fairly quickly, but initially it is literally 12 times the work as it used to be. Plus Ford threw in the Quadratic equation (which has thrown us for a loop) which was done to properly model a curve in the VE tables. Slopes are straight lines, this simply is not good enough when converting to Speed Density, which has been done on the EcoBoost and expected on the Coyote.

 

[02reaper]

Sure, here's the link to their products. Very similar pricing to SCT products.
HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips

Again, everything SCT can currently do. There is nothing HP tuners can do that SCT can not. There are however things SCT can do that HP tuners can not.

I'm curious what SCT can do that HPTuners cannot do?

 

[Shaun@AED]

I'm curious what SCT can do that HPTuners cannot do?

Change calibration strategies for one.

 

[Eric@HPTuners]

Change calibration strategies for one.

Why do you think we can't?

 

[Shaun@AED]

Why do you think we can't?

Can you?
I have HP tuners. Please tell me how to open a 2005 S281 strategy without reading the vehicle.

 

[TexasStang4585]

I'm a hands on kind of learner.
I bought a car for testing purposes and spent months figuring things out. Of course my previous 10 years tuning experience helped, as did my knowledge of camshafts for figuring out what each of the TiVCT functions did.

Same advice I give professional tuners that want to dive into the Coyotes. Buy one for yourself and start on all-motor tuning. I would not start with boost.

Honestly, I don't see why someone with little to no tuning experience would want to tune their brand new $30K+ vehicle. They are NOT easy to tune, in fact many of the best in the business have had their asses handed to them by a coyote. Yet more and more quality Coyote tuners are surfacing. I expect great things in the next few years from some of these guys. Best part about it is you can do nearly everything remotely now.

I'd strongly agree with Shaun on this, I much rather take a remote tune from an experienced coyote tuner vs a local guy that know's Fords but not so much the coyote in particular.

My local tuner Patrick O'Gorman with PSI motorsports and now tunes for Hennessey couldn't get my car right after 3 trips back and forth on the dyno. His tune just wasn't wasn't producing any results at the track with me only running a best of 11.1 at 125mph. He told me it was running what it should have been, which I know it was bull comparing it with similar set-ups.

I ended up giving up on the guy and paid Shaun to remote tuned my car. Within a week we knocked out both 93 and a E85 tune with street datalogs. I took it back to the track and ran a 10.3 at 136 and next trip back after a revision I ran my PB of a 10.04 at 135. So the proof is in the pudding, an experience coyote tuner is a must to get the most out of these cars.

Just for reference here's a result comparison of both tunes on the same dyno and the same day with back to back pulls/ a cool down after the first pull. If you look you can see how clean Shaun's powerband is vs my local tuner, plus the power difference is crazy for just a tune swap.

Difference of 47hp & 78tq at 3100rpm

Difference of 36hp & 46tq at 4100rpm

Difference of 35hp & 36tq at 5000rpm

Difference of 57hp & 52tq at 5900rpm

Difference of 27hp & 26tq at 7000rpm

 

[Eric@HPTuners]

I can send you one of there isn't one in the repository.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I can send you one of there isn't one in the repository.

Repository only has a few GT tunes.
SCT's database has at least 6 different Saleen tunes to choose from, both manual and automatic. Same goes for Roush Stage 3 OEM tunes.

I have no doubt you can convert files and update the repository Eric, I know you are more than capable.

HP tuners relies on others uploading tunes to the repository, which is nice in one aspect, but that is not a database of OE calibrations. It's a place where anyone can upload any file. Without accurate comparison of an OE tune, a tune labeled 'Stock' may not be stock.

To clarify my initial 'HP tuners Can't change strategies' is not correct, they can, it's just not as straight forward and you are relying on others uploading the correct files to the repository.

 

[Eric@HPTuners]

Repository only has a few GT tunes.
SCT's database has at least 6 different Saleen tunes to choose from, both manual and automatic. Same goes for Roush Stage 3 OEM tunes.

I have no doubt you can convert files and update the repository Eric, I know you are more than capable.

HP tuners relies on others uploading tunes to the repository, which is nice in one aspect, but that is not a database of OE calibrations. It's a place where anyone can upload any file. Without accurate comparison of an OE tune, a tune labeled 'Stock' may not be stock.

To clarify my initial 'HP tuners Can't change strategies' is not correct, they can, it's just not as straight forward and you are relying on others uploading the correct files to the repository.

Correct, and there is a "legality" reason we do not have a database of copy written OEM tunes in a database. I agree having it has it's benefits, but a Ford shop that does any volume of work will be able to collect plenty of OE tunes of their owns, and IMHO, there is nothing to be gained by using a Saleen tune, LOL.

 

[Eric@HPTuners]

I'd strongly agree with Shaun on this, I much rather take a remote tune from an experienced coyote tuner vs a local guy that know's Fords but not so much the coyote in particular.

As someone who has been remotely tuning heavily modified Fords for years, I strongly agree with that too, but it is a bit irrelevant to this thread.

Just because you have the HPT hardware and software does not mean you MUST tune your car yourself. I have been remotely tuning for others that use HPTuners for a few years. Having a full blown tuning software with you when you go to the track has advantages if you have a tuner is willing to educate you on what is and is not safe for you to change.

No remote tuner is available 100% of the time and in that case it is beneficial to be able to make adjustments yourself.

For those that think it would be crazy to try and tune your own car, you could be right. It really depends on the individual, tuning isn't for everyone. For those that would like to do it yourself, start off on a mostly stock car and take your time. Some of the best tuners I know started out as SCT Pro Racer users. Anyone ever heard of Jon Lund? :banana:

Everyone starts out tuning somewhere. With out software it will be easier than ever and it won't require going to some tuning class just to learn a basic description of what the parameters do. It will be all included in the package.