EPA & SCT | Is the Future of Modifying Cars Over Based on This??

[Tob]

So....Lund, VMP, etc, what now? Continue forward but with limited opportunity and access? Who'll pay them to flash their PCM with a tune that has a CARB Exemption when they can do that at home? The cottage industry suddenly has motivation to grow. Older tuners/tunes will suddenly be in demand. Ford Racing now has a reason to spend the money to develop more tunes/packages with EO numbers.

I had a ProCal tune on my GT500 and while done properly it was conservative/restrictive with no opportunity to go a bit more "hardcore."
Ford Racing lamed out and made excuses for not developing an EO legal tune/package for the GT350 (time bomb in the making?). For now I've reverted back to EECIV, but decided to yank that garbage completely and go full cave man in my '90 coupe. Shitcanning said harnesses, sensors, etc, was oh so liberating.

 

[Revvv]

Who knows, the performance industry may lean away from altering the factory ECU. A brand new computer intended for modification could be what we see in the future. We would simply replace the entire ECU in favor of one that can be modified without ties to the particular vehicle.

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[Corbic]

Who knows, the performance industry may lean away from altering the factory ECU. A brand new computer intended for modification could be what we see in the future. We would simply replace the entire ECU in favor of one that can be modified without ties to the particular vehicle.

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Plug and Play Standalone.




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[SirShaun]

Plug and Play Standalone.




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OEM ECUs are shit to begin with.

I want something with a stand alone. You can control all kinds of shit, boost by gear, rpm, driveshaft speed, wheel speed, can compare variables and react on the fly (ex. driveshaft and wheel speed not matching up, it will pull power).

There is already plenty of standalone kits available, usually at least double the cost of a handheld though.

Met a guy with a Underground Stage 3 Huracan, on race tune/gas it makes like 1500+ hp, its boost limited until like 3rd or 4th gear. I want those problems.

 

[Revvv]

Plug and Play Standalone.




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...but will that run all of the needed vehicle functions, and at what price?

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[blk02edge]

I can see older performance cars bumping in value, no way in **** are they building stand alone ecu's for todays cars that integrate with the rest of it for anywhere near an affordable price. But then again, Im guessing ha

 

[RedVenom48]

Found this for Coyotes, and I imagine with a little repining, the adapter harness could be used for GT500s:

Infinity PNP Ford Coyote Engines using Ford Engine Harness | AEM

Just shy of $4k for the harness and standalone. Controller is listed as good for 07-14 GT500s on this resellers website:

AEM 2005-2017 Ford Mustang GT/ 2007-2014 GT500 Infinity-8 Stand-Alone Programmable Engine Management System


I highly doubt you could ever pass emissions with this as the primary ECU. Likely wont be able to communicate with the ABS module, though I admt I didn't read too much into the capability.

 

[03Sssnake]

Found this for Coyotes, and I imagine with a little repining, the adapter harness could be used for GT500s:

Infinity PNP Ford Coyote Engines using Ford Engine Harness | AEM

Just shy of $4k for the harness and standalone. Controller is listed as good for 07-14 GT500s on this resellers website:

AEM 2005-2017 Ford Mustang GT/ 2007-2014 GT500 Infinity-8 Stand-Alone Programmable Engine Management System


I highly doubt you could ever pass emissions with this as the primary ECU. Likely wont be able to communicate with the ABS module, though I admt I didn't read too much into the capability.

There was a guy in the coyote section trying to get an AEM Infinity working on his coyote, this was probably close to 2 years ago. I don’t think he ever got it sorted.

 

[Revvv]

Found this for Coyotes, and I imagine with a little repining, the adapter harness could be used for GT500s:

Infinity PNP Ford Coyote Engines using Ford Engine Harness | AEM

Just shy of $4k for the harness and standalone. Controller is listed as good for 07-14 GT500s on this resellers website:

AEM 2005-2017 Ford Mustang GT/ 2007-2014 GT500 Infinity-8 Stand-Alone Programmable Engine Management System


I highly doubt you could ever pass emissions with this as the primary ECU. Likely wont be able to communicate with the ABS module, though I admt I didn't read too much into the capability.

That is expensive. ...and you likely lose many features the OEM ECU controls.

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[03cobra#694]

Not to change the subject, but why the **** doesn’t the EPA do something about the damn water crisis in Lee County Florida? Damn sludge algae from the lake releases.

 

[jeffh81]

Getting the point that cars are gonna be untunable. I know dodge had made their stuff pretty hard to crack and rumor is GM make the ZR1 hard to tune also.

 

[03cobra#694]

Nope

 

[BigPoppa]

Thousands of people in Michigan don't have clean drinking water......let's crack down on those effin hot rodders....

 

[Nuked]

Most likely the EPA even acknowledged this due to lobbyist pushing the issue, aka the OEM's. The OEM consider the ECU IP that is NOT transferred to the customer when they purchase the car. Aftermarket tuning only hurts the OEM thru the BS warranty claim stuff and the fact that most OEM's, specifically Ford, have deals in place with "approved aftermarket tuning" such as the ProCal, Roush and Whipple. Ford makes zero on any aftermarket tune done by say a Lund, VMP, PBD etc.

 

[Raitzi]

This is all because rolling coal people and diesel drivers removing cats and other emissions regulation devices.
You can still have high horse power car with tune. You just need to use cats, o2 sensors etc. Just no more cheap ass way to increase horse power. Just use high flow cats. There is a reason why EPA exists and they are just doing their work. This very minor thing after all. If tune fails emissions testing with cats and sensors operating, it is just a very poorly done tune as car is not running right. I would like Gale Banks to comment on this as he really knows how to make crazy horse power with diesel engines without black smoke.

 

[RedVenom48]

For those in the know, are there any studies done from an emissions standpoint on ethanol as a primary fuel source? How it effects 5-gas on pollution controlled cars etc? I know Brazil has gone nearly completely to ethanol for their automotive fuels, so Im sure there has to be some research on this.

They arent a small country so its impressive they have the infrastructure to make the switch. We here in the US are obviously a lot larger as far as number of people on the roads and registered cars. I know we are all proud to see we have such vast reserves of retrievable oil. Can we as a nation conceivably switch like Brazil? Can high content ethanol fuels make the restrictiveness of modern emission controls less necessary? In respect to 5-gas content of course.

Hell, would we even have the capacity to produce that much ethanol?

 

[Raitzi]

Hell, would we even have the capacity to produce that much ethanol?

Ethanol drops most emissions components. There might be some small particle issues with small engines when they run cooler on ethanol.
"Numerous studies have compared the emissions of E85 and gasoline. E85 decreases the emissions of CO2, as well as the emissions of many harmful toxics, such as benzene—a known carcinogen. However, it increases acetaldehyde emissions, which the National Institute of Health describes as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" and is moderately reactive for ground level ozone formation"
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Ethanol Vehicle Emissions

No. There is not. It is basically people's food but US can increase Ethanol use in cars by mixing it more to regular gasoline. Problem is that not all vehicles would work without tuning with E15 or higher. Luckily there will likely be always enough ethanol for enthusiast as most vehicles are going electric.

 

[MarcSpaz]

@lexustech48, I can't speak to any studies about emissions. However, ethanol requires between 30% and 35% more fuel than LPG to make the same power. Also, retail pump ethanol is a crap shoot at best, when it comes to a reliable octane. They call it E85, but in reality it can be anywhere from 51 octane to 94 octane, still coming out of the same pump nozzle and still be called E85. Part of the reason for that is because ethanol is made out of sugar. Even after processing it as a fuel source, the fermentation process continues while the fuel ages in storage.

Given that compared to LPG, its expensive to make (cheaper at the pump due to federal subsidies from our tax dollars), its not as efficient, its not as stable, and we are an oil-rich nation, you are going to be hard pressed to see a full ethanol cut-over in the US anytime soon.

 

[RedVenom48]

Ethanol drops most emissions components. There might be some small particle issues with small engines when they run cooler on ethanol.
"Numerous studies have compared the emissions of E85 and gasoline. E85 decreases the emissions of CO2, as well as the emissions of many harmful toxics, such as benzene—a known carcinogen. However, it increases acetaldehyde emissions, which the National Institute of Health describes as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" and is moderately reactive for ground level ozone formation"
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Ethanol Vehicle Emissions

No. There is not. It is basically people's food but US can increase Ethanol use in cars by mixing it more to regular gasoline. Problem is that not all vehicles would work without tuning with E15 or higher. Luckily there will likely be always enough ethanol for enthusiast as most vehicles are going electric.

good point about the electric, but whats interesting about that is the larger industrial machines needed to get the rare earth materials to make the control systems and batteries pollute more than anything.

From what Ive been told at training classes, Toyota is working on a a Capacitor style battery to rapidly accept a charge as opposed to the old and slow traditional batteries. Either way, the end result is that pollution is still emitted to the atmosphere on an industrial scale.

 

[RedVenom48]

@lexustech48, I can't speak to any studies about emissions. However, ethanol requires between 30% and 35% more fuel than LPG to make the same power. Also, retail pump ethanol is a crap shoot at best, when it comes to a reliable octane. They call it E85, but in reality it can be anywhere from 51 octane to 94 octane, still coming out of the same pump nozzle and still be called E85. Part of the reason for that is because ethanol is made out of sugar. Even after processing it as a fuel source, the fermentation process continues while the fuel ages in storage.

Given that compared to LPG, its expensive to make (cheaper at the pump due to federal subsidies from our tax dollars), its not as efficient, its not as stable, and we are an oil-rich nation, you are going to be hard pressed to see a full ethanol cut-over in the US anytime soon.

I of course wasnt holding my breath, but its just interesting that the technology is there. Id be interested to see any studies on the long term effects of Ethanol as a primary automotive fuel source in Brazil.