Dyno #'s CAI, TB, Headers (Before/After)

[Nocturnal'14]

What was the Air Fuel like for the CAI/TB run?

12.7 with & without the CAI/TB combo

Mind if I ask where you got it?

SVT Marketplace

Oh, so you are still keeping the cats? Why not go ahead and pull that venturi insert and let that TB really choke down some air!?

I will pull the Venturi insert in the near future when I can get a dyno tune done....just need to find a tuner I trust that is close. Hate being away from VMP like this, I used to live an hour from Justin's shop and could do a dyno tune whenever I changed something.

 

[usnfenix]

LTs will give him a good punch on the low end TQ and pretty decent gains under the curve. That has already been proven with LTs.

not trying to argue with you but ive never seen a dyno graph after a header swap on these cars that showed improvment on the low end at all. its always been an above 4500-5000 rpm gain.

 

[slick3]

Did you end up getting dynoed after the header install? Excited to see the results man!!

 

[Jonberlin]

About what I expected. We have very similar mods, I have the airaid( no insert) BBK 85mm throttle body, kooks shorties,magnaflow true x pipe into flowmasters american thunder mufflers.
My car put down 437whp and 389wftlbs. Since you're keeping the cats I'm guessing you'll end up with 420whp


Jonny

 

[burnin4]

final #'s with headers?

 

[Nocturnal'14]

Sorry guys, just got back in from dinner.....

Dyno numbers don't tell the whole story...The car runs GREAT and I can defiantly hear/feel a gain!

Final numbers were 412 hp / 400 tq...not bad considering Im still running cats and the intake insert. NO TUNE REQUIRED either (Even though I have one) I think with the insert removed, a dyno tune designed for the peak gains on this setup I could get another ten hp/tq.
No loss down low and a gain from 4k RPM up!

RED is with Tune, CAI, TB, H-Pipe & AB
Blue is with all the above PLUS the Kooks Shorty Headers.....

 

[clinton2003]

so you put the kooks shorty headers on , but left the cats... :nonono:

 

[SCalla1384]

so you put the kooks shorty headers on , but left the cats... :nonono:

Well that's an apples to apples comparison. People go stock headers stock h pipe to longtubes and off road mid and claim headers are worth 20-30whp which they're not.

I went from stock manifolds off road x to kooks long tubes and off road x and picked up 7whp peak. But I did pick up 15whp certain parts of the power band

 

[99arboC]

Thanks for taking the time to put this together I think it is all good info.
So when are we going to get the next update intake insert removed and tuned?

 

[twistedneck]

Thanks for taking the time to put this together I think it is all good info.
So when are we going to get the next update intake insert removed and tuned?

That insert is negating your entire new CAI and throttle body.. Removing it with a solid tune is going to unlock some HP.

No surprise the shorty headers didn't deliver, the stock headers are already a well tuned set of shorties. also if you want torque go with 1-5/8" long tubes. they flow plenty for top end on a 302, but deliver some really good low and mid range torque. the reason most see losses down low is the current fetish for 1-7/8" primary tube headers on a tiny little 302. I've seen a 427 cid. sbc hit 715HP w / 11.5:1 @7000 rpm using 1-3/4" headers. to make the 1-7/8" work you need to have stepped headers - 1-5/8, 1-3/4, 1-7/8"..

PS> i bet the car is a joy to drive. now with the cool air the DA should be falling and you will gain even more HP!

 

[dirtyd88]

not trying to argue with you but ive never seen a dyno graph after a header swap on these cars that showed improvment on the low end at all. its always been an above 4500-5000 rpm gain.

Just explaining. Didn't think you were. :beer:

Sorry guys, just got back in from dinner.....

Dyno numbers don't tell the whole story...The car runs GREAT and I can defiantly hear/feel a gain!

Final numbers were 412 hp / 400 tq...not bad considering Im still running cats and the intake insert. NO TUNE REQUIRED either (Even though I have one) I think with the insert removed, a dyno tune designed for the peak gains on this setup I could get another ten hp/tq.
No loss down low and a gain from 4k RPM up!

RED is with Tune, CAI, TB, H-Pipe & AB
Blue is with all the above PLUS the Kooks Shorty Headers.....

idk what the price tag is on those headers, but to me, they don't seem worth it. I was expecting a least a little under the curve gains, but nothing.

 

[Gremlin85]

I have an enitre thread dedicated to LT's on the coyote motor.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111564

They are not worth it UNLESS going FI or Nitrous. The stock manifolds are just fine and with high flow or off road mid-pipes, you'll make similar if not the same gains as you would with the LT's.

Aggressive cam timing can move those numbers a bit higher. Ask your tuner to do some experimenting with them and see what works best for your setup. I'll be doing that myself next Friday.

 

[Mach828]

~$1,500 in mods for a gain of 14hp? That is a tough pill to swallow!

 

[BornCoqui]

~$1,500 in mods for a gain of 14hp? That is a tough pill to swallow!

Speaking from personal experience, the sound alone is worth the price.

 

[Nocturnal'14]

The dyno numbes DONT tell the full story! The car feels overall more responsive and powerful...sounds great with outstanding throttle response.
If I had to do it again...Id have passed on the headers. But then would have always wondered "what if".

Im happy with the car as is....the tune might change in the future, but cats will stay.

 

[scott_0]

I agree, while the gain from long tubes is minimal for the price, the sound is amazing! no more bubbly sound, which I hated

 

[slow306stang]

Thanks for the informative thread Nocturnal and I had similar results when going to long tubes vs an off road x-pipe. While the car sounds a lot better it only picked up 4whp and tq in the 2000-4000rpm range. At the track it didn't make any difference in times or mph.

 

[clinton2003]

My kooks mid lengths made no real difference on my NA build either. The cat deletes do more than the longtubes do.

Before anyone goes out to buy headers you need to think about it. If you plan on going blower do it. Otherwise only do it for the sound. The factory headers are awesome. There is a reason the engineers made sure they went untouched.

 

[burnin4]

One big difference I've noticed after putting lt headers on several of my cars is the gain under the curve. Even though peak gains are fairly minimal my car was always faster with a set of headers (with tuning). They are definitely expensive, hard to justify, but the gains are more then they appear on paper/dyno.

 

[maneuen]

not to hi-jack the thread but here is my experience:
Note - same dyno, DIFFERENT DAYS, but all with 5 smoothing and SAE

Run 1 is stock - 2012 GT m6
run 3 is intake and tune
run 9 in intake and tune + ARH long tubes (WITH CATS) + magnaflow street exhaust + retune for the headers

I since switched tuners (Run 4 not attached), but made 424.5 & 401.4 (same settings, smoothing 5 and SAE) - those gains were pretty much across the board not just at peak

on top of the sound - the headers and exhaust & retune picked up 18hp /20tq across the board. Obviously the exhaust helped and there is probably a bit more in it if I ditched the cats, but the gains were everywhere not just above 5k / peak. by the way these are 1 7/8 headers on a NA car - so no torque loss (maybe the cats actually help add backpressure vs. an off-road in this particular case?)

While I like the headers and got a good deal on them - if you plan on going FI down the road (but not all out), the money for headers + install is better spent on the blower - you'll get a whole lot more than 18 hp across the board!