Coil-over conversion. Which is better?

[Cobra-R]

That is much more of a comparison than I thought you would answer with, yes, that does have credability with me.

I built my 95R into a full Griggs car and drove it for a little over a year that way till it started breaking. I converted it to all MM and have driven it for two years since. I also bought my Griggs race car(94) partly thru this last race season and I honestly can not say that the Griggs handles better, thus my confusion with some of your comments earlier.

When you talk about the "immersed" or "subterranean" roll center of the MM setup, your going to have to explain that better. Are you referring to the front suspension setup, a 3 link, or what? I will agree that the roll centers are lower on the MM than the griggs, but if you are literally implying that MM's roll center is below ground level on a static car, that is not true.


Brian

 

[2JZFAN]

1. I think it’s fair to compare.. I do well in either platform

What you may think “handles” better may be different from the characteristics I prefer from a car.. I just prefer the car I was driving.. regardless of the suspension in it.. I had no loyalty to either camp only to the setup/car that helps me win.

I see that I’ve peeked some interest with you Brian. I’d much rather continue our conversations by way of PM then in a public forum. I’ve served my purpose of stating my opinion and experiences along with others. I must reiterate however that I just cannot continue discussing this.

 

[beabout]

ttt

 

[moridin2004]

MM..? :loser: Price isn't everything, good entry level products for the money, but I like my rear center above ground please.. thanks.
KB..? :xpl: RSTB.. shouldn't even be necessary.. great to market, i'm sure some people think it's a great idea.. speaking of marketing.. how about that railroad track setup weighing in under the Kenny Brown cars..?

Griggs. (Period)

All the companies have nice ideas and maybe 1 single pioneering product that the others should take notice.. but the best all around no sacrifice Mustang suspension company in my opinion and many others on track forums is Griggs Racing. Call and speak with the guys at Griggs and they'll explain everything. :beer:

Oh and where’s Evolution Motorsports? They make a GREAT rear suspension..?

I'm sure Evolution Motorsports makes a great suspension, but most of the road race types stick with the IRS. Hmmm...Watts link and IRS...not sure if that mixes all that well :rollseyes

From the learned experience of others, the Bilstein dampers seem to hold up much better than the Koni street units. Now, if we're talking about Koni double adjustables, that's an entirely different story. I've talked to a few club racer types that have had their Koni single adjustables overheat on the track and basically quit working until the temps came back down. Never heard or experienced any such thing of the non adjustable sport Bilsteins.

From what I've looked at from the NASA AIX series stuff is that the reliability of the Maximum Motorsports cars seems to be above that of the Griggs stuff. For a street car, I would assume that reliabilty would be ideal, because various big potholes and road obstacles can cause some pretty high loads most likely not seen on a road course.

 

[99 KOBRA]

I'm also considering MM coilovers. Here's what I'm planning:

Front coilovers with 350# spring
Rear coilovers with 550# spring
Bilstein 00R shocks
MM CC plates
MM full length subframes

Not looking for a serious road racer just some good street handling and the lowered stance. Any suspension guru's out there? How's this setup sound?:beer:

I just had MM full-length subframe connectors, MM CC plates, Bilstein Sports, and MM coil overs (450 lbs. front, 525 lbs. rear) installed on my '04 Cobra and love it!

 

[99 KOBRA]

I ran Koni adjustables on my '99 Cobra and have Bilstein Sports on my '04 Cobra. I'm really puzzled by the comment above that the Bilsteins are not good enough to be used in a coil over set up. I disagree strongly!

 

[moridin2004]

I just had MM full-length subframe connectors, MM CC plates, Bilstein Sports, and MM coil overs (450 lbs. front, 525 lbs. rear) installed on my '04 Cobra and love it!

Isn't that a bit soft in the rear for what you have in the front as suggested by Maximum Motorsports?

 

[99 KOBRA]

Isn't that a bit soft in the rear for what you have in the front as suggested by Maximum Motorsports?

The rates were recommended by MM. On second thought, I think the rears are 575 lbs.

 

[moridin2004]

I ran Koni adjustables on my '99 Cobra and have Bilstein Sports on my '04 Cobra. I'm really puzzled by the comment above that the Bilsteins are not good enough to be used in a coil over set up. I disagree strongly!

Was that directed at what I said, or from the other guy with the Watts Link BS?

 

[N/Angel]

any of you guys look into KW ones? Look them up they sell them locally and seem like killer parts I didnt know about them till I ordered my MM ones.

I have the KW Variant 3 on my GT at the moment...

absolutely awesome handling!! height, rebound and compression can be adjusted. the car outhandles many on the street with the current setup. I bought the kws because I was going to road race the car.

however, selling them now because rules changed for the local mountain races and I don't want to change the whole car again. going for something more drag oriented where I know the car meets all the requirements.

I think KW is the most expensive coilover setup out there. and even if I haven't driven any other coilovers on a mustang... I think KW is just as good if not way better then MM.

 

[XRQTOR]

I'm selling both my current car's so i can buy an o4 cobra, this thread is intresting and confusing. I'll be bringing the car back to austraila where it'll hooked so i can sit on the proper side of the car. Iv'e been looking at what can be done to upgrade the suspension to give better handling and make it sit much lower, if this car belongs to a member here what suspension does it have because thats how i want mine to sit.

 

[99 KOBRA]

Was that directed at what I said, or from the other guy with the Watts Link BS?

The other guy.

 

[04torchred]

I'm selling both my current car's so i can buy an o4 cobra, this thread is intresting and confusing. I'll be bringing the car back to austraila where it'll hooked so i can sit on the proper side of the car. Iv'e been looking at what can be done to upgrade the suspension to give better handling and make it sit much lower, if this car belongs to a member here what suspension does it have because thats how i want mine to sit.

The top two pictures are a member on here. His car has full MM coilovers, it sits sweet.

 

[XRQTOR]

Yes it looks awsome and thats exactly how i want mine to sit, i'm looking at the MM grip box. Now the cheapest kit ever but if it handles like it' on rails and sits like that it's money well spent.

Sorry bout the 3rd pic wasn't supposed to post that up.

 

[cobra1718]

has anyone just did the front coilovers and with what kind of results???

 

[johnny-longtors]

has anyone just did the front coilovers and with what kind of results???

Well, for a time I ran with just the rears (IRS car) and it resulted in a very unbalanced setup. I don't know that it would be detrimental on a street car - it's not that the behavior was unpredictable, it was just very.... not good.

 

[01cobravortech]

No problem guys I didn’t even know I was replied too, I didn’t get the e-mail. I’ll keep it short simple and on topic. I already spoke about MM’s superior subterranean rear roll center but this thread is about Coilovers.

I’m going to talk about two things in this post. One being the inferiority of the Bilstein shocks/struts MM uses in their kits,. The other being the 4-bolt CC plate they manufacture. It’s all really simple stuff but the Bilstein products MM combines with their coilovers simply ARE NOT meant for such use and abuse. As for the 4-bolt CC plates they make.. they’re just the result of great marketing.. Bigger is better, more is better! Do yourself a favor and go on CC and run a poll on how many MM 4-bolt CC/coilover setups have ripped the tower tops off of mustangs. Better yet ask around at your local tracks/events. I live near both Sebring and Daytona, lets just say I see a lot of mustangs.. I’ve seen it with my own eyes and I heard it from others. It’s a nice idea everyone can identify with “if three bolts, why not go 4.. 4 must be better” but no. It’s great for marketing! But not much else.. All the consumers who buy products for their cars usually fall for marketing. MM is a perfect example of good marketing with a great price. Griggs on the other hand is a great example of a suspension company proud to be in the business of Mustang suspension fighting off Porches and Camaros alike!

Much of the suspension threads fall into the category of personal opinion. This thread on this forum is a perfect example of such. Most people who comment here or at MF, or Corral, or any local forum have NO experience with a setup from either company.. Yes they bought MM CC plates and NO they haven’t ripped their tower top off BUT they don’t push their suspension. Can someone drive a car with a subterranean rear roll center? Yes. Will they find it easier in a car with a proper rear roll center? HELL YES.

I don’t stand to gain anything on converting you guys from one company to another. I could care less which you guys buy, my only concern is trying to help a person get the best product they can for their car. I know if I asked something on SVTP I would want a real answer based on factual information not opinion. Call Koni and ask about the Bilstein MM coilover setup, Call Griggs about a proper suspension setup or to better understand what it takes, you could even call the guys at Evo-M about the importance of a rear roll center (the creator designs suspension for Dodge). Whatever you do be safe, and be happy. :beer:

oh and if anyone was wondering I voted for Griggs. oke:




:shrug: wow.

I will speak on my own experience though...I've pushed my MM Bilstein c/o to the meax and beat the crap out of car on a daily basis. 60k and plus and I see no signs of the ride quality or kit deteriorating in any way. I hate to cite you more friend, but you are from the land of SCHMUCK! The MM kits are as good as advertised. I don't believe for a 2nd you know more about a c/o than you can read off of a website. The MM stuff blows away the Kenny Brown toys and I've read several posts where the Griggs K member and c/a have failed...UNLIKE MM. Thats what I've seen on these boards.

 

[moridin2004]

I will speak on my own experience though...I've pushed my MM Bilstein c/o to the meax and beat the crap out of car on a daily basis. 60k and plus and I see no signs of the ride quality or kit deteriorating in any way. I hate to cite you more friend, but you are from the land of SCHMUCK! The MM kits are as good as advertised. I don't believe for a 2nd you know more about a c/o than you can read off of a website. The MM stuff blows away the Kenny Brown toys and I've read several posts where the Griggs K member and c/a have failed...UNLIKE MM. Thats what I've seen on these boards.

Just look at what he said about the Evo Motorsports Watts Link setup. Didn't know they made live axle designs to make an IRS better on these cars.

 

[01cobravortech]

Just look at what he said about the Evo Motorsports Watts Link setup. Didn't know they made live axle designs to make an IRS better on these cars.

I was just on the website. They don't have any watts link steyup type stuff for an IRS equipped car. Those are all solid axle goodies. They have an interesting X brace that goes in between the subframe connectors and also an an usual V brace for the radiator.

 

[moridin2004]

I was just on the website. They don't have any watts link steyup type stuff for an IRS equipped car. Those are all solid axle goodies. They have an interesting X brace that goes in between the subframe connectors and also an an usual V brace for the radiator.

I was being a bit sarcastic with my response above. Watts link is a live axle suspension design, same as a 4-link, 5-link, etc...

They do have some neat chassis bracing though.