Awesome, good to hear.. I was going to get my stage 3 cams and CJ intake last week, and call Shaun, but wife spend all the money.. haha.. can't wait to get them.. hopefully soon
Kalel, do you have any head work done?
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Cobra Jet Cams or Comp Cams????
- Thread starter az20115.0
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Awesome, good to hear.. I was going to get my stage 3 cams and CJ intake last week, and call Shaun, but wife spend all the money.. haha.. can't wait to get them.. hopefully soon
Kalel, do you have any head work done?
Sorry you're not able to sleep easy at night with my claims, based on actual experiences, by actual shops, with actual cars. I don't race dynos nor would I ask a shop for their dyno results on paper. I prefer track times as much as the next guy. The "recipe's" claimed from above, are deduced based on my CJ, FTW and CAI gains/results and porting/combo results of others. Here are a few for example:
Example #1: My car 492 rwhp
CJ Intake (unported just sanded uneven edges)
SCJ TB
4.5'' CAI
Full exhaust
Stock heads and cams
FTW Fuel
Numbers in my sig are with a JLT restricted intake. I've listed calculations for surface area for all CAI and TB combinations in previous threads. 86Merc just proved a 10-12 rwhp increase from porting the CJ intake. My car still had stock fluids, drive shaft, and unported intake making 492 rwhp. Comp stage 3's have been proven to gain 55-60hp with limiters.
see here:
Coyote Bolt Ons - Pick-Up Sticks - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine
With a ported intake and shelf cams, my car could have easily put down 550+.
Example #2: JDM 2013 Cobra Jet 550 rwhp
They baselined a stock N/A cobra jet at 430 rwhp through a loose stalled C4. After nothing more than a valve job (more on this later) and custom Comp cams locked out, they made 550 rwhp. This is a prime example of 12.5:1, boss heads, unported CJ intake, custom cams, on race gas. You could easily add 40-50 to this with a ported intake, FTW fuel, and through a manual transmission. Feel free to call Jim Jr at 732-780-0770 to discuss further.
Example #3: Adam at Revolution Auto 522 rwhp
CJ Intake
SCJ TB
Steeda intake
JPC regrinds
lightly ported heads
93 octane
Adam is a pro and an amazing tuner. This car is a ported intake and bigger CAI away from 540ish rwhp on 93 octane and 570ish rwhp on FTW. I've already proven 29 hp gains from FTW over 91/torco mix. Can you imagine this car with Comp stage 3's or custom? Feel free to call him to discuss at 410-882-0424. Great guy with a wealth of knowledge.
Here is his video:
Revolution Automotive Cobra Jet Manifold - YouTube
Example #4: HighwayStar 522 rwhp
Boss intake
Livernois heads
Comp stage 3's
91 octane
Another great pump gas stout combo. This car with ported CJ, 4.5'' CAI, and FTW would easily be 590+ rwhp. See his combo here:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-522-rwhp-naturally-aspirated-2011-5-0-a.html
Example #5: BLK2012GT 535 rwhp
Ported Boss intake
90 mm TB
4" CAI
Ported Heads
Comp Stage 3's
12.5:1
E85
Refer to page 2 of this thread. This car is 570+ rwhp all day long on FTW with a CJ intake, 4.5'' CAI, and different tuning.
Example #6: Revolution Auto Technician's Coyote in a New Edge GT: 520 rwhp
Boss Intake
JLT CF CAI
90mm TB
Comp Stage 3's NO LIMITERS
Stock heads and short block
FTW Fuel
10.50's at 131 mph at 3400 lb
This car also made 502 rwhp on E85. He is a ported CJ intake and a better 60' away from high nines NA with stock heads. No reason his combo shouldn't be 550+ with a ported CJ, SCJ TB, and 4.5" CAI. Call and ask to speak with him about it. 410-882-0424
The combos are out there. I research until I'm blue in the face on all my combos. There is power in head work, don't get me wrong. But when you can get 550-575 without it why bother unless you're doing a full build. Call JPC, L&M, RGR and MMR if you'd like to know more around valve jobs. Most flow increases in a "stage 1" or whatever variant come from the valve job. it's not going to be more than 20-25 hp at most. To me that's not worth pulling the heads and spending $2k plus when I can make that power without getting into the motor more than cams (8 hr job tops). These heads (GT and Boss) are extremely efficient for the cam lift contraints and RPM ranges we're bound to. When the heads get too big, port velocity suffers and you'll need more than 8000 rpm to reap the full benefits with only 5L in displacement. The problem is that we can't with Copperhead. Custom cams are just starting to come out with shops still experimenting what these motors like. I can assure you JDM gaining 120 hp was not mostly from head work. I can see 80+hp gains coming from cams locked out and 70+ from phasors in getting as much retard in without PTV clearance. Hope that helps.
Matt
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Great info like always..
Silly question, but can anyeffective port work be done to the heads while the heads are still on the car? I assume to certain degree it can, but wanna see what you think
Port work to heads must be done off the car. Most work is CNC'd and the valves must be removed for the valve job, obviously. After a valve job, port work, and springs you'll be $2000-2500 deep.....$3500+ with lighter valves, locks and retainers.
Very Nice write up!
I was having the NA setup in mind. Love the write up smoke. Solid info and results are the best examples! Thanks man
That is awesome! Thank you for all the info, I will start digging some more and see what I can find on this as I have been searching for a while now and have only found 1 person with 500HP that didn't use aftermarket heads.
My comment was about unleashed beast and blazer arguing about who said what about turbos. I'm not a big fan of people posting nonsense in tech topics lol.
Wasnt non sense on my end. Unleashed spams every thread with some kind of bullshit.
Matt like always good information. The n/a options on these motors are really opening up.
I forgot to answer your question. No I don't have any head work done, they are stock. Hopefully someone will come up with a CJ intake, TB, and CAI package. I wouldn't mind upgrading to that.
Sorry mate, this is my 3rd S197 Mustang, not counting all the GM in the past. I've learned a lot about them. Nothing wrong with N/A power. Chillax!
SmokeGreyHatch do have access to the ramp rates of the CJ cams vs. the comp stage 3 cams? i'd like to see that. So far i've only seen a huge duration increase with the comp stage 3 cams, and of course less lift than the CJ cams. Also i'm not sure you can compare my car 440 HP with anything on any other dyno.. not to mention that initial get it running tune from Shaun was pulling timing during the 440 run.
I'm going to make another baseline this winter then put on the cj intake box stock w/ the oval TB. that should be a good comparison.
The only reason for the fear of stage 3 w/o limiters is if the cam phasers cant keep up or fail. phasers make sure you have ptv clearance, eventually those could wear out, but i doubt its an issue.
I'm going to make another baseline this winter then put on the cj intake box stock w/ the oval TB. that should be a good comparison.
The only reason for the fear of stage 3 w/o limiters is if the cam phasers cant keep up or fail. phasers make sure you have ptv clearance, eventually those could wear out, but i doubt its an issue.
The stage 3's have been mocked up for worst case phase at 50 degrees and they did not hit. Now higher lift and duration on the exhaust may be a different story. FRPP can get you the duration at various lifts and remaining timing events. Once you compare to the stage 3's you'll see why they pick up 50 more than the CJ's. Your car should easily be 470 plus on pump with a CJ intake and over 500 on FTW. JDM took your combo with a CJ intake from 430 through a stalled auto to 550 with a valve job and cams. There's a lot of power to be had over the mild CJ cams. Ford used then because they're NOS from RnD.
It was a major PITA to mock up these phaser motors so i avoided that... i worked with the Boss powertrain engineers on this one and they pointed me to the CJ cams not the comps. i'm sure 'street car' had a lot to do with that.
In the valve job you mention above, did they not like the Boss 302R heads valve job? Reading the late Rob Deneweth on the subject they tried many aftermarket heads / valve jobs and came back to the 302R head.. now, hogging out the intake ports to 210CC that would make a huge difference at top end.
In the valve job you mention above, did they not like the Boss 302R heads valve job? Reading the late Rob Deneweth on the subject they tried many aftermarket heads / valve jobs and came back to the 302R head.. now, hogging out the intake ports to 210CC that would make a huge difference at top end.
Whats the difference between the CJ cams and boss cams?
While engineering and theory is great, you can't fight empirical data. I haven't seen a boss or CJ cammed car over 450 to the tire. Plenty of comp and CJ intake only. I won't be convinced heads are worth it on a stock short lock car until I see 50 plus gains on a cam/intake car. You can make 550 with stock heads with good fuel. Unless you're going for 550 on pump 91/93 or 600 with FTW it's not worth it. 550 for 6k or 600 for 15k with heads, shortblock. I would choose the former with 8k being the limiting factor in the ECM
13mm on both I/E and 290 advertised E duration (stock boss duration on I), but the ramps at lower lifts ate soft. In an NA motor, aggressive ramps create faster port velocity with the spring and valve train weight being constraints for keeping harmonics and float in check.
Just remember the Cobra Jet cars and early test CJ intakes were different intakes. Not the FRPP intakes we have. The pictures I have seen of the ports on the composite intake were different. As far as no casting lines and injector boss differences. So "porting" may not help those intakes much.
A road racer in Australia has a CJ crate motor in his car. It dynoed right around 500 rwhp with the manual trans in his car. Just for comparison sake versus the stalled auto JDM was tuning.
And our intake was far from ported. It was cleaned up. The injector bosses were the most worked part by far.
The comps are 12.5 I and 11.5 E due to coil bind in GT springs at 13mm. That's why you need boss springs for 13mm cams and boss head architecture for high lift.
So from what you have seen with all the types of cams, would you go with a comp stage 3 or would you go after a custom cam more designed around the cars setup? I assume custom cam but on that note who would you recommend? I've seen JPC/RGR cams and was thinking about possibly getting those, any draw backs? I would love to get a all motor combo that I could eventually see 600whp+ from with head work and bumped compression.
I think you can get 550 from stock heads with comp stage 3's, ported CJ, SCJ TB, 4.5 CAI, full exhaust, and FTW fuel. To get 550 on E85, same combo, but custom cams with phasers. If doing ported boss heads I'd do custom locked for lift benefits. Ported stock heads, custom cams with phasers, ported CJ and 13-14:1 should be 600 plus on FTW. JPC has recently made 590+ NA, just not sure on cubes or compression.
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