The first 10 times… you are now on like the 357th attempt….
Apple River Incident
- Thread starter ZYBORG
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The first 10 times… you are now on like the 357th attempt….
The truth is what the truth is... don't matter how many times.
Still hurts eh lil buddy?
Your truth is your truth, sweet cheeks. Keep on keeping on and watch that friction burn!
Force is Force. They pushed him into the water and hit him +5 on 1, pushing someone down in water and hitting them is an extremely life threatening situation.
We have several threads here alone about teens ganging up and killing or leaving someone crippled for life after just a few kicks and hits.
They had the same duty by your logic.
Hard to retreat when surrounded and being hit under water.
Force returned in a self-defense situation must be equal to or lesser than the force used upon you. A knife is not equal to or less force than being punched.
He had plenty of instances to retreat. He chose not to. Now he pays the price for his machismo.
Please cite the law, because that is not true.
So a guy comes at me with a knife I have to knife fight him and leave my pistol holster? No.
Where any of those instances life threatening assaults?
You can see him keeping his distance and retreating. He then talked to that other woman and the mob followed.
SD is very dynamic. In this case it was clear SD except he then appears to reach out and shiv a running dude after the threat has been quelled and lied repeatedly to the police.
No no, that's not what the continuum of force says. Not all uses of force are set in stone by law, but a group of people using fists is a deadly threat to one person. If a deadly threat is posed then equal to and greater force is authorized. When deadly force is present then deadly force by any means is authorized. The DAs and courts have this all jacked up right now, just like they did with Rittenhouse.
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Couldn't find my old study guides that laid out the force continuum but I do have my old CQB handbook and there's some great information in the first few pages about violent confrontations and the mental state that everyone should learn and know by heart and use it as a basis to train to, especially the part about the conscious and sub-conscious mind. Muscle memory is how you win battles but it's so much more than that.
The SOP 9 is an eye opener as well.
The SOP 9 is an eye opener as well.
No. If someone pulls a knife you can use a firearm because it is a weapon.
If you are in fear / danger of severe bodily harm or death, you may use any means to halt the threat. Knives, guns, a prosthetic leg, it doesn't matter. It just has to be a threat that is likely to cause severe bodily injury / death.
Getting jumped by a mob, can and has caused severe injury to people (to include death).
Getting jumped by a mob, can and has caused severe injury to people (to include death).
You can't look at it in the way it's a one on one fist fight where a knife would equate to excessive force. You have to account for the ratio of people involved, and to my knowledge, there is no legal statute that covers deadly force authorization when a person is outnumbered. Ultimately, it comes down and is judged to what a reasonable person would do. I do not think it is entirely unreasonable and the fact there is a hot debate surrounding the incident should be evidence of it being considered reasonable.
Yup and civilians aren’t held to the law enforcement standards when it comes to use of force continuum. Fearing for your life or the lives of others can justify deadly force. I remember a case where several teenagers tried to mug/rob a retired Marine. That marine went to work with a blade and killed several of them. He was no billed, not indicted. I don’t believe they were carrying any guns from what I recall, they just tried to assault and rob him.
Very interesting and cool. Thanks for posting.
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No problem. I want to scan the whole thing and turn it into a pdf file as it teaches the entire basis of CQB tactics. Tactics have changed since then with new things being implemented but it is still sound and valuable.
No. LEOs are not ”civilians” while operating in an official capacity.
Yes, LEOs arent held to the same standard as a non-LEO. Why should they? Its a totally different scope. Standards are adjusted to work for that particular field, it is not about the individual.
Every single person that assaults LE has a firearm.
Change my mind.
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Yes, they are. But then again the whole "the streets are a warzone" really gets hammered into their brains.
A civilian is a person not a member of an armed force nor a person engaged in hostilities.[1]
It is slightly different from a non-combatant, because some non-combatants are not civilians (for example, military chaplains who are attached to the belligerent party or military personnel who are serving with a neutral country). Civilians in the territories of a party to an armed conflict are entitled to certain privileges under the customary laws of war and international treaties such as the Fourth Geneva Convention. The privileges that they enjoy under international law depends on whether the conflict is an internal one (a civil war) or an international one
Aka, Lower Standards, lower expectations
Didn’t watch the video but sounds like dude was outnumbered (allows for increased force) and was being pushed into water (life threat; increased force).
Regardless if Le or not:
If someone pushes you into the water, and backs off, your level of force needs to decrease along with theirs.
Being outnumbered, out sized or skilled, female vs male, and fatigue are all circumstances that would allow for elevating the use of force.
Important piece of info is that ALL assaults on LE involve a firearm.
If a subject is just trying to squirrel away from LE to avoid being subdued, that’s one level of force.
If they are aggressing rather than retreating and you at that time feel like you are going to lose and potentially be disarmed, lethal force would be authorized.
The video someone posted of the skinny black guy at the gas station that assaulted the big white boy. Sure, white boy was fully justified up until the black kid covered up. He was no longer being assaultive.
100% would be excessive force in the LE realm.
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Regardless if Le or not:
If someone pushes you into the water, and backs off, your level of force needs to decrease along with theirs.
Being outnumbered, out sized or skilled, female vs male, and fatigue are all circumstances that would allow for elevating the use of force.
Important piece of info is that ALL assaults on LE involve a firearm.
If a subject is just trying to squirrel away from LE to avoid being subdued, that’s one level of force.
If they are aggressing rather than retreating and you at that time feel like you are going to lose and potentially be disarmed, lethal force would be authorized.
The video someone posted of the skinny black guy at the gas station that assaulted the big white boy. Sure, white boy was fully justified up until the black kid covered up. He was no longer being assaultive.
100% would be excessive force in the LE realm.
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Youre thinking about it like a victim, man.
You deserve better than that.
Yes, plenty of LE are GARBAGE. The person is garbage. But LE as a whole is not. LE is a must in a civilized society.
Dont let the fact that once upon a time, some asshole in a LE uniform hurt your feelings, bias you like that.
You could not realistically have LE if you forced them to operate exactly like a regular civilian would. Thats why when they are in uniform or working in a professional capacity, the have a different set of standards, but when they take it off, they go back to the regular set for you and I.
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