Apple River Incident

[ZYBORG]

I have not seen a thread dedicated to this incident. Found the case very interesting.

It perfectly accentuates how self defense is under attack, and it should really be last resort. Avoid AVOID AVOID, at all costs. Only when absolutely life or death situation. Or else you will be scrutinized and dissected by the legal apparatus.

After watching the whole video:


And several portions of the trial, as well as listening to other professionals’ take on it, I feel as thought Miu’s actions were morally justified. But unfortunately for him even though the defense attorney did a terrific job, he made some monumental mistakes… These mistakes made it so that the trial’s outcome went against him. Legally got ****ed.


What is your take on it?

 

[mc01svt]

Wow, that went from 0-100 way too quick. I had to watch the video like 5 or 6 times before i couldnt even see him stab the kid his hands were so fast.

i have no dog in this fight but fleeing the scene and trying to hide the knife in the woods is a huge red flag.

 

[mc01svt]

"I just grabbed the kid's knife. I didn't even know if I was holding it right. I just grabbed it from him because he tried to poke me with it, so, I feared for my life," Miu

lying to cops about the whole thing big mistake number 2

 

[03Sssnake]

I haven’t read all the details. Was this his knife or did he really grab it off one of the kids..

 

[Dirks9901]

I haven’t read all the details. Was this his knife or did he really grab it off one of the kids..

It was his knife. He originally lied. I never followed this one 2 closely but i think what really did him in was he pursued one of the people he stabbed which kinda throws the whole self defense thing out the window. If that was the case.

The first kid he knifed, i feel as though it could go either way in terms of self defense.

You can watch the unedited version yourself on reddit. Its chaos. However i think other angles were showed at trial. At the end of the day, these kids were pieces of lying shit and I don’t feel bad for them in the slightest.


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[03Sssnake]

It was his knife. He originally lied. I never followed this one 2 closely but i think what really did him in was he pursued one of the people he stabbed which kinda throws the whole self defense thing out the window. If that was the case.

The first kid he knifed, i feel as though it could go either way in terms of self defense. I never saw the rest.

You can watch the unedited version yourself on reddit. Its chaos. However i think other angles were showed at trial. At the end of the day, these kids were pieces of lying shit and I don’t feel bad for them in the slightest.


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Thx for the info! I have seen different versions of the video, just hadn’t read all the specifics. I agree with your assessment and do not feel one iota of sorrow for those kids…

 

[ZYBORG]

Wow, that went from 0-100 way too quick. I had to watch the video like 5 or 6 times before i couldnt even see him stab the kid his hands were so fast.

i have no dog in this fight but fleeing the scene and trying to hide the knife in the woods is a huge red flag.

It goes to show how deadly a knife can be. This was a 3” pocket knife! Guy was a sack of potatos, probably a Ram 3500 owner kinda guy, no type of athleticism what so ever, still collected souls.

Yes, guy ****ED himself by lying and running. KILLED his credibility.

 

[ZYBORG]

I haven’t read all the details. Was this his knife or did he really grab it off one of the kids..

He stone cold lied about that… was his knife all along… Prosecution showed video of him fidgeting with the knife through his pocket, before it all escalated and went to shit…

 

[ZYBORG]

It was his knife. He originally lied. I never followed this one 2 closely but i think what really did him in was he pursued one of the people he stabbed which kinda throws the whole self defense thing out the window. If that was the case.

The first kid he knifed, i feel as though it could go either way in terms of self defense.

You can watch the unedited version yourself on reddit. Its chaos. However i think other angles were showed at trial. At the end of the day, these kids were pieces of lying shit and I don’t feel bad for them in the slightest.


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You are on point. IIRC another video with panoramic view (bad quality) was shown which showcased Miu actually advancing and seeking out the last person to be stabbed. Which made it so that at least that last person, was not self defense.

Like you said, the first couple of stabs could have been explained under self defense, but definitely not the last.

I also agree in that these kids were pieces of lying dog shit. Trying to play the victim card, when indeed they smacked the hornets’ nest that day…

In my personal opinion, you reap what you sow. If you physically attack someone, you better be ready to pay with your life. That can be the cost in the real world.

I do not feel one bit bad for the young guys. Karma, paid dividends that day.

 

[gimmie11s]

 

[03Sssnake]

View attachment 1837201

 

[Dirks9901]

You are on point. IIRC another video with panoramic view (bad quality) was shown which showcased Miu actually advancing and seeking out the last person to be stabbed. Which made it so that at least that last person, was not self defense.

Like you said, the first couple of stabs could have been explained under self defense, but definitely not the last.

I also agree in that these kids were pieces of lying dog shit. Trying to play the victim card, when indeed they smacked the hornets’ nest that day…

In my personal opinion, you reap what you sow. If you physically attack someone, you better be ready to pay with your life. That can be the cost in the real world.

I do not feel one bit bad for the young guys. Karma, paid dividends that day.

100% spot on.


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[mc01svt]

It goes to show how deadly a knife can be. This was a 3” pocket knife! Guy was a sack of potatos, probably a Ram 3500 owner kinda guy, no type of athleticism what so ever, still collected souls.

Yes, guy ****ED himself by lying and running. KILLED his credibility.

was it a actual folding pocket knife or a fixed blade? He disemboweled an entire human being with ease. It takes me way more effort to filet fish.

The guy is for sure a sociopath. He stabbed 4 people and never even blinked. I would almost say he had a half smirk on his face. Everyone else frantic and screaming/crying, he has the demeanor of a terminator machine, doesn't even flinch. He definitely dropped some bodies before his family left romania.

Also, WTF on looking for a phone submerged in a river? Maybe there was some pedo stuff on there. LOL

 

[ZYBORG]

was it a actual folding pocket knife or a fixed blade? He disemboweled an entire human being with ease. It takes me way more effort to filet fish.

The guy is for sure a sociopath. He stabbed 4 people and never even blinked. I would almost say he had a half smirk on his face. Everyone else frantic and screaming/crying, he has the demeanor of a terminator machine, doesn't even flinch. He definitely dropped some bodies before his family left romania.

Also, WTF on looking for a phone submerged in a river? Maybe there was some pedo stuff on there. LOL

It was in fact a 3” foldable pocket knife. Im not sure of brand or type.

Before I got into knives and learned about steels and sharpening, I was un aware of variances between types. I had no idea that certain knives could in fact inflict so much damage.

I have a few small “pocket knives” that can flay you like butter.

The disemboweling happened via way of cutting. He stabbed in and up (blade up), as the guy was pushing into him.

I will say that the whole “smirk” thing can be a nervous thing… I’ve seen it plenty in the military. Guys scared and getting their ass handed to them, but still “smirking”. This happened mostly with foreigners, coincidentally.

I, personally, have no issue with what he did. To me, its “game on”. The young people ganged up on him, lied about him, laughed at him, accused him of terrible things, tried to humiliate him, then proceeded to physically assault the guy a few times, from different angles and multiple people.

To me he did in fact acted in self defense. But, of course, my definition of self defense is a lot looser that that of the legal system.

The way he approached him was “weird” but not illegal. They should have never attacked him. They drew first blood and paid hard for it.

 

[rborden]

When you are told repeatedly to leave or go away, it should be obvious you're in a place where you're not welcome nor wanted.

Did he have a legal right to be there? Sure. But by staying and engaging them, he inflamed the situation. Also he threw the first punch. He is the aggressor. He could and should have removed himself the situation. Instead he pulls a knife and stabs four people.

He deserves the verdict he got. This wasn't self-defense.

Video of deadly fight that led to Apple River stabbing shown during opening arguments of Nicolae Miu trial

The trial for a 54-year-old Prior Lake man accused of killing a teen and stabbing four others on the Apple River in Wisconsin nearly two years ago began on Monday.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[ZYBORG]

When you are told repeatedly to leave or go away, it should be obvious you're in a place where you're not welcome nor wanted.

Did he have a legal right to be there? Sure. But by staying and engaging them, he inflamed the situation. Also he threw the first punch. He is the aggressor. He could and should have removed himself the situation. Instead he pulls a knife and stabs four people.

He deserves the verdict he got. This wasn't self-defense.

Video of deadly fight that led to Apple River stabbing shown during opening arguments of Nicolae Miu trial

The trial for a 54-year-old Prior Lake man accused of killing a teen and stabbing four others on the Apple River in Wisconsin nearly two years ago began on Monday.

www.cbsnews.com

It doesnt work that way, man. People cant command you to leave a public space.

I would say he stood his ground. THEY inflamed the situation. THEY got physical first.

There is absolutely no proof that he threw a punch. This rhetoric was dissected and “disemboweled” in court. Defense attorney crushed the “victims”. Actually, they totally suicided their credibility. They were ALL found lying. Lol.

 

[rborden]

It doesnt work that way, man. People cant command you to leave a public space.

I would say he stood his ground. THEY inflamed the situation. THEY got physical first.

There is absolutely no proof that he threw a punch. This rhetoric was dissected and “disemboweled” in court. Defense attorney crushed the “victims”. Actually, they totally suicided their credibility. They were ALL found lying. Lol.

At the end of day, the force returned was not reasonable or comparable to the force used on him. The totality of the circumstances did not justify pulling a knife in my opinion, let alone disemboweling one of them.

He still had a duty to remove himself from the situation instead of escalating it. It's not like they prevented him from leaving.

 

[ZYBORG]

At the end of day, the force returned was not reasonable or comparable to the force used on him. The totality of the circumstances did not justify pulling a knife in my opinion, let alone disemboweling one of them.

He still had a duty to remove himself from the situation instead of escalating it. It's not like they prevented him from leaving.

Im not sure if your argument comes from a legal or moral stand point…

Id very much argue that the knife was in fact an equalizer. One old potato looking guy vs. a literal mob of stronger, much more agile young men, with superior stamina.

Its not like he sat there and carefully removed the guys guts out, while zipping on his favorite drink… the whole “dissembowel” thing happend from a simple strike with a very sharp knife to a very soft and vulnerable spot, as the guy was advancing on him. The body/movement then pushed the guys intestines out.

The only duty this guy had was to stop the attack from the mob, which he did.

But the guy did **** himself by lying to police/leaving the scene. That in itself, worked against him harder than the teens testimony ever did.

 

[mc01svt]

the ironic part of all this is the friend said he told him not to worry about looking for the phone and that it was insured anyway. Now you got 1 dead and another going to PMITA prison for a long time.

me in that situation.. im enjoying the nice day on the river. Phone can be replaced later

 

[rborden]

Im not sure if your argument comes from a legal or moral stand point…

Id very much argue that the knife was in fact an equalizer. One old potato looking guy vs. a literal mob of stronger, much more agile young men, with superior stamina.

Its not like he sat there and carefully removed the guys guts out, while zipping on his favorite drink… the whole “dissembowel” thing happend from a simple strike with a very sharp knife to a very soft and vulnerable spot, as the guy was advancing on him. The body/movement then pushed the guys intestines out.

The only duty this guy had was to stop the attack from the mob, which he did.

But the guy did **** himself by lying to police/leaving the scene. That in itself, worked against him harder than the teens testimony ever did.

I've taken numerous self-defense legal seminars with law enforcement and defense attorneys present, hand to hand combat/weapons disarming courses and I train vicariously with handgun in a multitude of situations.

I'm speaking from a legal standpoint here.