2010 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 cometh, order guide leaked online

[Formula51]

2010 Camaro SS retail is $33,430.00, 422 hp (base, see link for additional costs for RS packages, decent rims, carpet in the front, spare tire etc) CAMARO PRICE COMPLETE LIST -- OPTIONS + ACCESSORIES (MSRP, Invoice, Employee) - Camaro Forum - 2009 Camaro / 2010 Camaro / New Camaro SS Z28 Forums - Camaro5.com

You are looking at a 2SS Camaro. The 1SS Camaro has an MSRP of $30,245 which comes out close to $31,000 with destination. I am also not sure what "decent rims" you are talking about. Both the 1SS and the 2SS the same nice factory 20" wheels.

2009 Challenger SRT-8 retails is $39,820 plus $695 for 6 speed, $1,700 gas guzzler tax, $42,215.00 425 hp. To me is the worst bang for the buck, but the damn car is sexy.

Plus the $725 destination charge and the performance tires (245/255) which is $100 and you get $43,040 so I just rounded down to $43,000.

2009 Shelby GT500 retails $43,125, 500 hp

2010 GT500, we don't know all the specs.

I think it would be a fun comparison, as your like to say the Camaro has tuned suspension, but so does the GT500, correct?

What camaro guys also forget is the gt500 comes with forged internals and potentially 600 hp for less than $1,200.00. And that unlike the Camaro, you can now get GT500's less than MSRP. You will be lucky to find a worthy Camaro for less than 37k out the door, with nice rims, sound system, etc.

:burnout:

It appears you do not know much about the Camaro as you are again thinking that "nice rims" are an option. The factory rims are 20" 5-spokes and are very nice. Also, there will be LOTS of Camaro's going out the door for less than 37k. This is GMs volume car equivalent to the Mustang GT. Just because it has specifications closer to the GT500 than the Mustang GT, don't for a second think this is a low production car. You will be getting Camaro SS's for less than MSRP as soon as the new hype wears off which may be quick with the economy the car is being introduced into. They will be selling at MSRP from dealers all over the country from day one. Just go look at the Camaro websites and you will see this is the case.

There is no doubt the GT500 responds great to mods and the forged internals are a huge plus. That being said, $12,000 can buy you a LOT of performance parts. Think about it, this car is so much cheaper than the GT500 that it appears to be a better performance bargain despite how mod friendly the GT500 is. A $43,125 GT500 with $1,200 in mods as you said would give you a roughly $44,500 600hp car. What would a $31,000 1SS Camaro with $13,500 in mods give you? There are endless possibilities, but certainly a forged bottom end, full exhaust, updated drive train components, and either a twin turbo or centrifugal supercharger setup are some likely options.

No matter how I seam to slice it, the Camaro still looks to be the best performance for the buck. Now don't for a second think I am saying that means it is going to sell better, but when it comes to performance for you dollar, the competition is lacking due to the Camaro's super cheap $31,000 price tag.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

You are looking at a 2SS Camaro. The 1SS Camaro has an MSRP of $30,245 which comes out close to $31,000 with destination. I am also not sure what "decent rims" you are talking about. Both the 1SS and the 2SS the same nice factory 20" wheels.

I thought the 1SS was the auto with different motor producing 400 hp. What's the difference between the 1SS and 2SS Camaro?

It appears you do not know much about the Camaro as you are again thinking that "nice rims" are an option. The factory rims are 20" 5-spokes and are very nice. Also, there will be LOTS of Camaro's going out the door for less than 37k. This is GMs volume car equivalent to the Mustang GT. Just because it has specifications closer to the GT500 than the Mustang GT, don't for a second think this is a low production car. You will be getting Camaro SS's for less than MSRP as soon as the new hype wears off which may be quick with the economy the car is being introduced into. They will be selling at MSRP from dealers all over the country from day one. Just go look at the Camaro websites and you will see this is the case.

There is no doubt the GT500 responds great to mods and the forged internals are a huge plus. That being said, $12,000 can buy you a LOT of performance parts. Think about it, this car is so much cheaper than the GT500 that it appears to be a better performance bargain despite how mod friendly the GT500 is. A $43,125 GT500 with $1,200 in mods as you said would give you a roughly $44,500 600hp car. What would a $31,000 1SS Camaro with $13,500 in mods give you? There are endless possibilities, but certainly a forged bottom end, full exhaust, updated drive train components, and either a twin turbo or centrifugal supercharger setup are some likely options.

No matter how I seam to slice it, the Camaro still looks to be the best performance for the buck. Now don't for a second think I am saying that means it is going to sell better, but when it comes to performance for you dollar, the competition is lacking due to the Camaro's super cheap $31,000 price tag.

$31,000 price tag will not have leather?

I need you to price off that sheet there, all the options you want with the right package and get me to where you have 6 speed, 500 hp, leather, and a sound system.

Ls3 supercharger system is 6,500 plus installation and tuning. That should get you 600 hp. Hopefully you won't pop the unforged motor. But if you want to compare unforged numbers and performance and bang for the buck there is always a base mustang GT with a blower that could do some damage.

This is all of course if you can get a camaro at msrp, and you purchase a gt500 at msrp. Do me a favor and do an ebay search for gt500, you will find 2008-09 models going for below msrp brand new. So for about 39-40k, you can have 500 hp, and a warranty. I seriously doubt the Camaro will out brake and corner the gt500 enough for to make up the hp difference on a road course. How fast is the G8 Gxp is how I would judge the Camaro on performance numbers? And to me, stock, they barely beat a standard mustang GT.

I'm just tired of Camaro guys coming over to mustang boards praising a car that doesn't exist and how much bang for the buck it is.

There is always this car, if we want to do a factory comparison of hp and bang for the buck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...6.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:64|65:12|39:1|240:1318

 

[ON D BIT]

why all the hostility???


here are the basics....and they are all not for sale at this time.

2011 5.0 dohc 400hp mustang gt(3600lbs) vs 2010 6.2 422hp camaro ss(3800lbs)
2011 5.4 blown 500+hp gt500(3800lbs) vs 2011 6.2 blown 550+hp camaro z28(4000lbs)


nuff said!:beer:

 

[Formula51]

I thought the 1SS was the auto with different motor producing 400 hp. What's the difference between the 1SS and 2SS Camaro?

The difference between the 1SS and 2SS is leather and the availability of some options that are not available for the 1SS such as ambient lighting. 1SS and 2SS are essentially option packages. Thus, you can get a 1SS automatic or manual Camaro or a 2SS automatic or manual Camaro. You are correct that the automatic is rated at less horsepower but it is still an LS3 with a different valve train for the cylinder deactivation.

$31,000 price tag will not have leather?

No, a 1SS Camaro will not have leather. You have to get a 2SS Camaro for leather. This is why I keep saying "performance" for the dollar because the entire drivetrain, brakes, etc. is the same for the 1SS and the 2SS. If we were to look beyond just performance and compare comparably equipped cars then we would need to look at a 2SS Camaro, which is still about $10k less than the 2009 GT500.

I need you to price off that sheet there, all the options you want with the right package and get me to where you have 6 speed, 500 hp, leather, and a sound system.

The 2SS Camaro you quoted earlier at $33,430 gets you leather and a good stereo. Obviously you cannot get 500hp in a Camaro SS which is where the price difference comes into play and their lies the difficulty in comparing the two.

Ls3 supercharger system is 6,500 plus installation and tuning. That should get you 600 hp. Hopefully you won't pop the unforged motor. But if you want to compare unforged numbers and performance and bang for the buck there is always a base mustang GT with a blower that could do some damage.

I was not wanting to compare anything other than stock versus stock and the relative price of the vehicles. You brought up modifications and I was simply pointing out that the price difference between the Camaro and the GT500 leaves a lot of room for modifications. The difference between the Mustang GT and Camaro SS is that you are starting with a base motor that already has 422hp as opposed to 315hp. It also 6.2L of displacement compared to 4.6L and thus has much more potential.

This is all of course if you can get a camaro at msrp, and you purchase a gt500 at msrp. Do me a favor and do an ebay search for gt500, you will find 2008-09 models going for below msrp brand new. So for about 39-40k, you can have 500 hp, and a warranty. I seriously doubt the Camaro will out brake and corner the gt500 enough for to make up the hp difference on a road course. How fast is the G8 Gxp is how I would judge the Camaro on performance numbers? And to me, stock, they barely beat a standard mustang GT.

To be far, we should compare a 2010 GT500 to a 2010 Camaro SS, but I agree there are some great deals out there on older GT500's. It will be interesting to see how the Camaro does on a road course. We have some Nurburgring times for comparison to other cars, but since Ford doesn't test there we cant compare it to the Mustang GT or GT500. We will have to wait and see.

I don't know what numbers you are referring to with the G8 GXP and Mustang GT, but a 2004 GTO and G8 GT run with the current Mustang GT (13.4 to 13.8 range). The G8 GXP time of 13.0 at 108mph does more than just barely beat a Mustang GT. You do realize how much half a second is right? The Camaro has 200 less pounds to drag around, but slightly different final gearing so we will have to wait and see how it does.

I'm just tired of Camaro guys coming over to mustang boards praising a car that doesn't exist and how much bang for the buck it is.

I'm not trying to be that guy, I just think it is funny how many people have a complete inability to objectively look at things. While I am impressed at GM's price point for the car, it is entirely too heavy for my liking. We know enough about the cars chassis, engine, and drivetrain based on other cars in the GM lineup such as the Corvette and G8 to make a good educated guess at the cars bang for the buck.

Personally, I think a used GT500 or a new Camaro SS would be a tough decision for me as I would only buy either as a daily driver and very occasional drag strip car. They are just too heavy and too much money to thrash at the track for me. I will leave that duty to my cheap and light (relatively) 4th Gen that is a lot cheaper to fix when things break.

 

[R1Lello]

Will GM be around to finish the camaro.........financially the worst car company right now.........and looks like GMAC is in trouble too..............not surprised

 

[Captain Beyond]

I'm just tired of Camaro guys coming over to mustang boards praising a car that doesn't exist and how much bang for the buck it is.

+1 :beer:

 

[Captain Beyond]

here are the basics....and they are all not for sale at this time.

2011 5.0 dohc 400hp mustang gt(3600lbs) vs 2010 6.2 422hp camaro ss(3800lbs)
2011 5.4 blown 540+hp gt500(3800lbs) vs2011 6.2 blown 550+hp camaro z28(4000lbs)


nuff said!:beer:

I corrected this for you. ;-)

 

[01trublue cobra]

The problem with the Shelby is the IRON block.Switch to an aluminum block and take off 100Lbs of the front end.

 

[ON D BIT]

gm will be around and the ss camaro is coming out. hopefully gm has enough brains to produce the z28 as well.

the numbers i have heard are this....
13.2 at 106 for the 10 mustang gt. basically the same as the 03 mach 1 and faster than todays mustang gt.
12.7 at 113 for the ss camaro. yes the ss will be much faster than the 10 mustang gt.

however the 11 mustang will be very similar to the is-f. i have heard of those running 12.4 @ 114.

 

[Captain Beyond]

The problem with the Shelby is the IRON block.Switch to an aluminum block and take off 100Lbs of the front end.

It will no longer be a problem for the 2011 MY. :coolman:

 

[Dave07997S]

Will GM be around to finish the camaro.........financially the worst car company right now.........and looks like GMAC is in trouble too..............not surprised

GMAC just qualified for TARP money, they will be around a while longer.

Dave

 

[Formula51]

It will no longer be a problem for the 2011 MY. :coolman:

So the iron block soldiers on for 2010? Similar to the 4.6L in the GT I guess. This probably makes good sense for Ford with the economy right now.

I wonder what kind of prices we will see in 2011 for the Mustang GT and GT500 with all the assumed changes.

 

[Formula51]

however the 11 mustang will be very similar to the is-f. i have heard of those running 12.4 @ 114.

I hope you are right. I really do. BUT, I have some serious concerns about this actually happening. A 12.4 @ 114 would mean a complete departure from the the Mustang GTs current amazing recipe for selling cars.

For the car to accomplish this, it would need to change in many ways. It would need to stay light, which is expensive. It would need to gain power and gearing, presumably the 5.0L at 400hp and a 6-speed, which is expensive. It would need to increase traction, likely by better weight distribution and wider tires, which we have never seen on the GT. All of those things would mean a departure from the "budget minded" performance car that the Mustang GT has always been. This puts Ford in unfamiliar territory with the GT, which is not something I would think they want to do given the cars success.

To me, a high $20k performance car like the 2010 GT is a great feat in this world of expensive cars. I personally would like to see them stick with the success of the Mustang GT and work on improving the gas mileage while keeping the price down. I think that would be a good direction with CAFE standards and high gas prices sure to return. Perhaps they could add DI to the 4.6L and mate it with a 6-speed. That would help gas mileage and power.

The 400hp 5.0L, lightweight, 3.55 or 3.73 geared, wide tires, Camaro-kickin Mustang has always seamed like more of an SE Mustang to me costing in the $30 to $32k range. I just think it is going to be hard for Ford to convince the dads of teenagers and college kids to buy them a Mustang GT when it cost $30k+ and has 400hp. I say that not to poke fun, but because that has always been the difference to me between the sales. Your late 20's to the 40 something year old is going to buy Mustangs or Camaros, but the Mustang has always been more popular with the young crowd. I have attributed this to lower cost and lower power. The 2011 GT could change that and then its anybodies game. I just don't understand why Ford would want to take that risk.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

The difference between the 1SS and 2SS is leather and the availability of some options that are not available for the 1SS such as ambient lighting. 1SS and 2SS are essentially option packages. Thus, you can get a 1SS automatic or manual Camaro or a 2SS automatic or manual Camaro. You are correct that the automatic is rated at less horsepower but it is still an LS3 with a different valve train for the cylinder deactivation.

Doesn't the manual add cost to the final price? I would say you need to compare with leather, because we are not able to purchase a gt500 without leather.

Of if you want the cloth option, what about the mustang gt I linked in the last deal? Bang for your buck right there. Cloth interior, 420 hp, lighter, with upgrades, and probably would smoke a camaro. If speed and hp numbers is all your looking at with a factory warranty.

I was not wanting to compare anything other than stock versus stock and the relative price of the vehicles. You brought up modifications and I was simply pointing out that the price difference between the Camaro and the GT500 leaves a lot of room for modifications. The difference between the Mustang GT and Camaro SS is that you are starting with a base motor that already has 422hp as opposed to 315hp. It also 6.2L of displacement compared to 4.6L and thus has much more potential.

Camaro SS and Mustang GT have a huge price difference as well. Mustang GT has run 13.2 stock. We don't have the production Camaro ss numbers yet, but a G8 with a 6 speed is running 13.0. To me, that's not a huge enough difference to justify 5k difference in the price tag.

To be far, we should compare a 2010 GT500 to a 2010 Camaro SS, but I agree there are some great deals out there on older GT500's. It will be interesting to see how the Camaro does on a road course. We have some Nurburgring times for comparison to other cars, but since Ford doesn't test there we cant compare it to the Mustang GT or GT500. We will have to wait and see.

You brought up the 2009 gt500 for camparision, and I was simply pointing out that you can get one for under msrp, unlike the Camaro.

I don't know what numbers you are referring to with the G8 GXP and Mustang GT, but a 2004 GTO and G8 GT run with the current Mustang GT (13.4 to 13.8 range). The G8 GXP time of 13.0 at 108mph does more than just barely beat a Mustang GT. You do realize how much half a second is right? The Camaro has 200 less pounds to drag around, but slightly different final gearing so we will have to wait and see how it does.

See my previous quote.

I'm not trying to be that guy, I just think it is funny how many people have a complete inability to objectively look at things. While I am impressed at GM's price point for the car, it is entirely too heavy for my liking. We know enough about the cars chassis, engine, and drivetrain based on other cars in the GM lineup such as the Corvette and G8 to make a good educated guess at the cars bang for the buck.

Your not trying, but you are appearing to be. As this is a mustang based website and your arguing about how much better a car that doesn't exist to a current production mustang.

Personally, I think a used GT500 or a new Camaro SS would be a tough decision for me as I would only buy either as a daily driver and very occasional drag strip car. They are just too heavy and too much money to thrash at the track for me. I will leave that duty to my cheap and light (relatively) 4th Gen that is a lot cheaper to fix when things break.

To me that's a no brainer. You can pick up used gt500 for 36-7k easy. So for 2k more you get more power, easier modifications for power, and great resale value.(aka 2003-04 cobra as example).

:beer:

 

[Formula51]

Doesn't the manual add cost to the final price? I would say you need to compare with leather, because we are not able to purchase a gt500 without leather.

Of if you want the cloth option, what about the mustang gt I linked in the last deal? Bang for your buck right there. Cloth interior, 420 hp, lighter, with upgrades, and probably would smoke a camaro. If speed and hp numbers is all your looking at with a factory warranty.

That Saleen is very nice, but it is a rare care and a 2008 at that. But in terms of bang for you buck I think it is great. It is $3,000 more than a Camaro SS though, gets worse gas mileage, and doesn't have IRS or Brembo brakes?. I'm not saying I wouldn't take it over the Camaro ( I love superchargers!), but just pointing out a few things.

Camaro SS and Mustang GT have a huge price difference as well. Mustang GT has run 13.2 stock. We don't have the production Camaro ss numbers yet, but a G8 with a 6 speed is running 13.0. To me, that's not a huge enough difference to justify 5k difference in the price tag.

There is more to driving than just straightline numbers. Plus you are quoting the best time for a Bullitt/2010GT and a mainstream mag time for the GXP. Also, the price difference is more like $3,000 from what I remember about the 2010 pricing. Sounds pretty reasonable to me for 422hp, 6-speed, and IRS vs. 315hp, 5-speed, SRA.

To me that's a no brainer. You can pick up used gt500 for 36-7k easy. So for 2k more you get more power, easier modifications for power, and great resale value.(aka 2003-04 cobra as example).

:beer:

I agree completely and that is what I would do myself. The GT500 has proven to be VERY strong and reliable so I would not be worried about buying used or voiding the warranty. Really darn right impressive for a 500hp car to be so reliable and cheap to maintain. Darn impressive. Not to mention all the 11 second passes we have seen from GT500's with just a couple simple mods and some tires. Blows my mind really.:rockon:

 

[ON D BIT]

I hope you are right. I really do. BUT, I have some serious concerns about this actually happening. A 12.4 @ 114 would mean a complete departure from the the Mustang GTs current amazing recipe for selling cars.

For the car to accomplish this, it would need to change in many ways. It would need to stay light, which is expensive.

i really dont see all the questions you have come up with. that is simply because they are already answered with in the three cars before us.
the 2011 mustang is not going to be all new with a new platform and new engineering. it will be the same basic power to weight as the is-f. is the is-f running extra wide tires? i believe the mustang will hook better because of the live axle.
wieght i believe will be very similar to the 2010 mustang gt which is similar to the 09 mustang gt. the 03 mach 1 was maybe 50lbs heavier than the mustang gt of that same year. its a n/a(no extra weight for blower) and al block(no extra weight for the iron block). the gt500 would lose close to 200lbs without the iron and blower/intercooler on its dohc 5.4 making it damn near 3600.
think of the 11 mustang gt will be the same weight as the camaro would be without the 200lbs of irs in back.oke: in what way does it have to get expensive just because of the new drivetrain. are you saying gm can produce a 400hp 30k coupe and ford cant? yea it might go from 28k to 30/31k for the base no option no leather mustang gt. but thats not a big leap.

lastly i dont see why a 5sp cant run the same times as a 6sp with proper gearing, specially off the line that allows the tires to hook? why would ford offer 3.73 in the 10 mustang and not the 11 mustang?:shrug: the only thing i see the 6sp good for is the mpg incentive which ford is after. a pure overdrive(6th) would be great for freeway mpg!

 

[Formula51]

i really dont see all the questions you have come up with. that is simply because they are already answered with in the three cars before us.
the 2011 mustang is not going to be all new with a new platform and new engineering. it will be the same basic power to weight as the is-f. is the is-f running extra wide tires? i believe the mustang will hook better because of the live axle.
wieght i believe will be very similar to the 2010 mustang gt which is similar to the 09 mustang gt. the 03 mach 1 was maybe 50lbs heavier than the mustang gt of that same year. its a n/a(no extra weight for blower) and al block(no extra weight for the iron block). the gt500 would lose close to 200lbs without the iron and blower/intercooler on its dohc 5.4 making it damn near 3600.
think of the 11 mustang gt will be the same weight as the camaro would be without the 200lbs of irs in back.oke: in what way does it have to get expensive just because of the new drivetrain. are you saying gm can produce a 400hp 30k coupe and ford cant? yea it might go from 28k to 30/31k for the base no option no leather mustang gt. but thats not a big leap.

No I'm not saying that at all. Ford certainly can produce one, but it will no longer be the "budget minded performance car for all" that the Mustang currently is. Surely you can see where I am coming from with this. Also, the base no option, no leather, Mustang GT is like $26k now. If it goes to $30/31k then that is a pretty big jump. I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth the money to the performance enthusiast, but to the average buyer who just wants a Mustang with a V8, that is getting pretty expensive. Expensive to the point where there are lots of other cars to shop.

Its true the IS-F only has 255 tires out back but it has an 8-speed auto which shifts in 0.1 seconds and has some very nice gearing. But there is another way to look at the IS-F. It weighs 3,780# with only a 54/46 weight distribution and has 416hp and 371 tq. While a 2011 Mustang GT weighing 3600-3650# with 400hp and 360tq could theoretically mimick the times of the IS-F, why can't the 2010 Camaro?

IS-F
416hp 371tq
3,780lbs
54/46 weight distribution
255 rear tires
8-speed auto

2010 Camaro
422hp 408tq (pending SAE certification and GM has been getting higher numbers. Just look at the GXP. Went from 402 to 415hp)
3,860lbs
52/48 weight distribution
275 rear tires
6-speed manual with launch control

2011 Mustang GT
400hp 360tq
3600-3650#
54/46
255??? rear tires
6-speed manual

I think you may be right. It sounds like all three of the cars could be neck and neck. Hmmm, if the Camaro runs 12.4 I am going to crap my pants. I'm not believing it till I see it. Chalk it up to Lexus transmission magic for now.

lastly i dont see why a 5sp cant run the same times as a 6sp with proper gearing, specially off the line that allows the tires to hook? why would ford offer 3.73 in the 10 mustang and not the 11 mustang?:shrug: the only thing i see the 6sp good for is the mpg incentive which ford is after. a pure overdrive(6th) would be great for freeway mpg!

I was after the gas mileage with the 6speed comment. The 6sp can give Ford more room to be aggressive with the gearing down low while still maintaining good gas mileage.

 

[GTSpartan]

A 12.4 @ 114 would mean a complete departure from the the Mustang GTs current amazing recipe for selling cars.

No way the next GT run that time or speed. I would say more like 13 flat @ 108-110ish.

If they drop in the T6060 6spd it'll gain some weight too.

 

[ON D BIT]

I think you may be right. It sounds like all three of the cars could be neck and neck. Hmmm, if the Camaro runs 12.4 I am going to crap my pants. I'm not believing it till I see it. Chalk it up to Lexus transmission magic for now.

12.7 @ 113 is a heck of a run. i would say someone will improve on the 12.7 portion. 113 is moving, all you need is to hook and your right there at 12.4 or better!:beer:

 

[Formula51]

12.7 @ 113 is a heck of a run. i would say someone will improve on the 12.7 portion. 113 is moving, all you need is to hook and your right there at 12.4 or better!:beer:

Nah, I still don't believe it. The darn thing weighs 2 tons remember!!!

Its not like the 2 ton GT500 can run that fast.....oh wait....but its got 80 more hp. See, I told you the Camaro can't go that fast. But then again, the GT500 went 12.2, so just maybe the Camaro could go.....nah....
:beer: