127mm JLT Questions for those who have it.

[Ninjak]

What Bteiwin say is true. The JLT replacement tube basically is there version of the res delete kit. You still use the MAF location on the stock bucket. The 127 has it all built together.

As I said earlier I will go back to my 123 Taska piece, now that I have found coupler that fits and the fact that I have the CJ inlet. I will post up how that works out.

 

[dustin88lx]

I had a big issue with my tune, I had the scj monoblade with jlt cai and lower pulley and after making a hard pull and clutching it at the top of 3 bottom of 4th the car would simply die or stall out, at times the rpm needle would bounce some and then be gone, I would have to restart the car while coasting....it has been proven to be in the tune and in most cases the tb more so than the cai.

 

[VNMOUS1]

I had a big issue with my tune, I had the scj monoblade with jlt cai and lower pulley and after making a hard pull and clutching it at the top of 3 bottom of 4th the car would simply die or stall out, at times the rpm needle would bounce some and then be gone, I would have to restart the car while coasting....it has been proven to be in the tune and in most cases the tb more so than the cai.

Torque tables in your case.

As for the JLT 127MM, I've addressed /documented this a number of times. But, for those new to the party......

I had one of the very first ones. Tune was dead nuts perfect on the dyno. But, drive it and it went nuts. Surging, bucking, all the issues you read about.

Fortunately, I had a wb air-fuel gauge. It was clear that the sensor was having a field day, adding and deleting fuel, causing massive swings-thus the surging.

My hood has a fresh air "dump" right over the filter. I'd used it with the regular JLT 110MM with no problems.

I assumed (correctly) that the airflow was being rammed too hard/quickly and this must be the culprit. I cut down the edges of the plastic housing to keep it from sealing. Still had the issue, but had to head home. About an hour into the drive the surging got so bad that it failsafed.

In true McGyver fashion I took the back panel of a granola bar box and completely taped my fresh air dump closed.

Viola. Done. Perfect.

As stated above, its turbulence. Jay has recently improved the mouth of the filter by adding a screen to disperse the airflow. Its better, but it doesn't fix it.

He's continuing to fine tune the CAI.

You can mask some of this in the tune, but not all.

Block off the oval fresh air hole that comes from your grille on a 10-13 MY car. Problem solved.

Remove the block if you go to the track. It won't matter because it doesn't occur at WOT.

I have a piece of rubber velcro'd over my fresh air inlet for daily driving. You'll still get plenty of intake air. Don't worry.

I remove it for track use.

The JLT 127MM is a fine piece and performs great, but just like a really large throttle body, it may take a little experimentation.

Block the hole and see what happens.


Bj


PLEASE REACH ME VIA EMAIL AT [email protected] AS OPPOSED TO PM. THANKS.

 

[shelbysvt]

Perhaps the solution is to just go with a CJ 65mm TB, lund tune, and 10% OD pulley and leave the intake alone.

 

[BOD89LX]

Thanks for the info BJ I plan to block mine off and feel confident after talking with you tha this will fix my problems and like you said I know its not in the tune and like you said if I watch the wideband when coasting it is all over the place tryng to figure out what to do but at the time I didnt put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Chris!]

Perhaps the solution is to just go with a CJ 65mm TB, lund tune, and 10% OD pulley and leave the intake alone.

Or- do a FRPP restrictor eliminator and an Airaid filter to substitute

 

[VNMOUS1]

Thanks for the info BJ I plan to block mine off and feel confident after talking with you tha this will fix my problems and like you said I know its not in the tune and like you said if I watch the wideband when coasting it is all over the place tryng to figure out what to do but at the time I didnt put 2 and 2 together.

An a/f gauge will always vary wildly when you're coasting. But at steady state (cruise on) on a flat road it will still move around constantly but "average" 14.6 or so, depending on fuel.

PLEASE REACH ME VIA EMAIL AT [email protected] AS OPPOSED TO PM. THANKS.

 

[VNMOUS1]

Dupe. Sorry.

 

[shelbysvt]

Or- do a FRPP restrictor eliminator and an Airaid filter to substitute

Yes my mistake forgot to add that one in to the list.

 

[Ninjak]

Or- do a FRPP restrictor eliminator and an Airaid filter to substitute

That could work, but in my case with a 11, I was pegging the MAF with this setup. So I need to go more than the 114. I did not do a block off, but I used the beast adapter method, with a air-raid filter, and I still get a little surging. Its very slight, but I know its there.

I will try blocking off the inlet as suggested, just to see what happens. But I am still going to go with the CJ inlet setup.

 

[Tucker]

I can say that I run the 127 on my 2013 5.0 with Roush 2.3 TVS S/C making 650-700 RWHP (same set us as your 2013 GT500) and have tried several tuners tunes.
All had different drivability, but my last tune was perfect, drives like stock.

Van uses the 127 and runs the road course at speeds near 170MPH with no drivability issues.
The same goes for many, so to say it's the intake doesn't make much sense.

We have 1 mold and have used it for 2 years now, so all tubes are the same.
So how does the same tube run different on one car over another?
But a tune which controls thousands of parameters is not to blame?


I have datalogged MAF frequency with this kit and the MAF signal is very clean. It fluctuates between 2-3 thousandths which is nearly stock.

Tunes that make the kit work are no patch or band aid. No matter what kit you have the same thing is happening. At speed your ramming air into the intake and across the MAF. You close the throttle and the air keeps coming in. It bounces across the MAF giving a odd signal and it surges or stalls. Every kit will do this, no design can stop it.
So either you need to block some of that air or make an adjustment in the tune to correct for it. Simple as that.
Some tuners put more time into one intake and know that intake better than others

Farmboy90, let's be honest and up front here.
You didn't just swap intakes and got perfect drivability. You swapped intakes and TUNES and say it's better. What we'll never know is what was changed in the tune to run better. I really wish you gave your tuner a chance to make it right before jumping ship and bad mouthing something you don't know for sure was the cause of your issues.

Saying your know this or that isn't really true, your just stating what you were feed by another tuner who doesn't like your previous tuner. It sounded good at the time and now it got you to spend money with their tuner, hmmm.
Bad mouthing my product isn't fair seeing as how you didn't give the tuner a chance. Also, bad mouthing it is doing nothing for you trying to sell it either...

Keep in mind, we have hundreds if not thousands of this kit out already with hundreds on the newer 2011 cars that have the frequency MAF, the ones you read about with issues are the extreme minority.

For $250 less than a Whipple kit or FRPP kit I think we have the best set up, it just takes some tuners a little trial and error to get each car running perfect.

We added the screen and it helped some tuners get cars to run better, but now some (not all) are getting a funny blip or surge here or there. So were at it again and have a new filter in the works to put to rest any argument about turbulence. The new filter will have a lip or stop molded into the flange that butts up to the tube, so the air flows over the radius of the flange and into the tube, not hitting any edge.

We have a proto type and tested MAF frequency against the original and it's better by only 1 thousandths, which is minor, but now no one can say it's the intake.

 

[WHT03SVTCOLO]

Will you swap out the old filter with the new one once you have it final? Sounds like your working hard, keep up the good work.

 

[BOD89LX]

I can say that I run the 127 on my 2013 5.0 with Roush 2.3 TVS S/C making 650-700 RWHP (same set us as your 2013 GT500) and have tried several tuners tunes.
All had different drivability, but my last tune was perfect, drives like stock.

Van uses the 127 and runs the road course at speeds near 170MPH with no drivability issues.
The same goes for many, so to say it's the intake doesn't make much sense.

We have 1 mold and have used it for 2 years now, so all tubes are the same.
So how does the same tube run different on one car over another?
But a tune which controls thousands of parameters is not to blame?


I have datalogged MAF frequency with this kit and the MAF signal is very clean. It fluctuates between 2-3 thousandths which is nearly stock.

Tunes that make the kit work are no patch or band aid. No matter what kit you have the same thing is happening. At speed your ramming air into the intake and across the MAF. You close the throttle and the air keeps coming in. It bounces across the MAF giving a odd signal and it surges or stalls. Every kit will do this, no design can stop it.
So either you need to block some of that air or make an adjustment in the tune to correct for it. Simple as that.
Some tuners put more time into one intake and know that intake better than others

Farmboy90, let's be honest and up front here.
You didn't just swap intakes and got perfect drivability. You swapped intakes and TUNES and say it's better. What we'll never know is what was changed in the tune to run better. I really wish you gave your tuner a chance to make it right before jumping ship and bad mouthing something you don't know for sure was the cause of your issues.

Saying your know this or that isn't really true, your just stating what you were feed by another tuner who doesn't like your previous tuner. It sounded good at the time and now it got you to spend money with their tuner, hmmm.
Bad mouthing my product isn't fair seeing as how you didn't give the tuner a chance. Also, bad mouthing it is doing nothing for you trying to sell it either...

Keep in mind, we have hundreds if not thousands of this kit out already with hundreds on the newer 2011 cars that have the frequency MAF, the ones you read about with issues are the extreme minority.

For $250 less than a Whipple kit or FRPP kit I think we have the best set up, it just takes some tuners a little trial and error to get each car running perfect.

We added the screen and it helped some tuners get cars to run better, but now some (not all) are getting a funny blip or surge here or there. So were at it again and have a new filter in the works to put to rest any argument about turbulence. The new filter will have a lip or stop molded into the flange that butts up to the tube, so the air flows over the radius of the flange and into the tube, not hitting any edge.

We have a proto type and tested MAF frequency against the original and it's better by only 1 thousandths, which is minor, but now no one can say it's the intake.

Sorry to have started a flame war about this intake I was not looking to do that just wanted to see if others had the same issue as I did and how they fixed it. I am not blaming the intake as I know it's the factory ram air inlet that causes the problem after talking with more people. I just want to fix the problem as I like the intake and the power it makes and how it looks so when I said it seems to be the intake causing the problem I ment the ram air inlet on it seems to be the problem. I would be glad to get one of your new design filters to fix my problems without having to block off the ram air inlet will they be for sale soon and if so how much for one? I also commend you for chiming in and standing up for your product in a professional manner and once again I am not trying to bad mouth your intake or point a finger at it.

 

[Tucker]

Thank you both. What I want to make clear is us making adjustments to our filter is to help tuners have less issues and to eliminate what we have been blamed for. Because we know a good tune is the cure we can not swap filters for free. We are just trying to work together with tuners to help them, help us.

When I personally see the changes with simple tune changes I know it's in the tune. Look were trying to make 700+RWHP cars run like stock, no easy feat. Sometimes it takes a few tune adjustments and sometimes it takes a flawless air path, but I do not feel it's all the intake especially when it's a very small % with issues.
New filters should be here in a week or so and of course we'll do what we can for our customers.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Thank you both. What I want to make clear is us making adjustments to our filter is to help tuners have less issues and to eliminate what we have been blamed for. Because we know a good tune is the cure we can not swap filters for free. We are just trying to work together with tuners to help them, help us.

When I personally see the changes with simple tune changes I know it's in the tune. Look were trying to make 700+RWHP cars run like stock, no easy feat. Sometimes it takes a few tune adjustments and sometimes it takes a flawless air path, but I do not feel it's all the intake especially when it's a very small % with issues.
New filters should be here in a week or so and of course we'll do what we can for our customers.

There you go. From JLT and Jay Tucker himself. I sell JLT because of the man behind the company. Always a pleasure Jay. :beer:

 

[VNMOUS1]

Yep, Jay is constantly innovating and improving. I'm glad he hopped in and stated the facts as they apply to the intake. And as he said, he works with calibrators to make the job as easy as possible.

That said, let me clarify the central point of my particular post:

My issue is my hood (see highlights).

As I said, block my monster sized hole in my hood and it's perfect.


Tune was dead nuts perfect on the dyno. But, drive it and it went nuts.

Fortunately, I had a wb air-fuel gauge. It was clear that the sensor was having a field day, adding and deleting fuel, causing massive swings-thus the surging.

My hood has a fresh air "dump" right over the filter. I'd used it with the regular JLT 110MM with no problems.

I assumed (correctly) that the airflow was being rammed too hard/quickly and this must be the culprit. I cut down the edges of the plastic housing to keep it from sealing. Still had the issue, but had to head home. About an hour into the drive the surging got so bad that it failsafed.

In true McGyver fashion I took the back panel of a granola bar box and completely taped my fresh air dump closed.

Viola. Done. Perfect.

As stated above, its turbulence. Jay has recently improved the mouth of the filter by adding a screen to disperse the airflow.

The JLT 127MM is a fine piece and performs great, but just like a really large throttle body, it may take a little experimentation.

Block the hole and see what happens.

Just my home made quick fix for my beater.

 

[Extreme281]

Instead of blocking the fresh air off completly ,how about putting a small block from the air hitting directly on the filter and staying in the box .Flat sheet to just direct it away but where it still provides fresh air

 

[spazpilot]

I just wished ford racing would sell there whipple CAI that comes with the 750hp kit! No fitment issue and no stalling issues.

 

[paulsauto]

I've got a Jlt 127 on our 13 and a Lund tune from van ours runs perfect!!!!
Burnout!!

 

[Ninjak]

I just wished ford racing would sell there whipple CAI that comes with the 750hp kit! No fitment issue and no stalling issues.

Agreed. I have finished my project, started a thread in the GT500 section. Came out well, and running good I may get a 4inch coupler though, I'll see. But heh the CJ inlet worked out fine.