01 Cobra Vs. 03/04 Mach 1

[Stopsign32v]

i never said my cobra was big and bad, its stock. nor did i say yours was slow. im sorry though internet tuff guy, you are right. silly me :nonono:

Point is, there is no "junk" DOHC V8 from Ford. :nono:

 

[mike1284]

point is, your a tuff guy. proved me wrong. walk proud sir! after the horror stories i have read on here about boosted '99s, i wouldnt want one. plain and simple. junk, maybe not. but def not quality.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? My junk 99 Cobra stock motor with a little P1SC ran 10.98@126mph in the 1/4th. Since the 03 Cobra isn't junk how fast is your car? Now that I have built my junk motor its making double what your awsome motor makes. I have yet to understand how they are junk. Clue me in...?

 

[ponygt65]

Let me clarify. I didnt say Mach's "run out with 4.56's", I said:

"Cobra edge is from the slightly bigger cams. Throw 4.56's in and Cobra is right at home while Machs runs out of breath pretty fast."

To put it differently, Mach's run out of breath sooner than Cobra's because the cams have less duration. I dont know what kind of experience you are drawing on but I've seen several dyno sheets over the years for both cars, stock and modified, AND I've conducted close to 100 dyno runs on the 01 Cobra and close to 20 with the Mach 1. Both with stock, ported, and short runner intakes. I assure you, the Cobra carries the power band into the higher RPM's better. As a result, it responds better to the very steep gears like 4.30's and 4.56's, as well as well ported and short runner intakes that accentuate the upper RPM ranges. Doesnt make it better, just different.

I also didnt say that "the Machs intake is 'more restrictive'" I said:

"in stock form Mach is a bit quicker and it should be with the pulleys, gears, and smaller cams better matched to the restrictive intake"

In other words, Ford knew what they were doing when they put smaller cams in the Mach. The 99-04 intake manifold is a restrictive design not well suited for high RPM. Less duration created a combo that only lacked 10-15 horsepower in stock form but had much better torque over a broad power band. This was a result of better matching the cams with the intake manifolds power range.

It's just an all around better matched package in stock form but as the mods that favor higher RPM power come on line, the Cobra starts to excel.

I've been running the Naturally Aspirated Horsepower List on Corral for almost 5 years and I've paid very close attention to the numbers produced by Machs since early production in 2003. They typically lag behind the Cobras by 10 - 15 horsepower in stock form. Their have been a few inflated numbers here and there from Mustang, Dynapack and various other dyno's, as well as Mach 1 guys typically like to quote STD numbers which always read higher than SAE. That's several years of observation and my own personal testing of the Mach 1 on the dyno. On the other hand, Mach's excel dramatically in torque.

Bottom line, when modified with just bolt ons, very few Mach's have been able to make the 315 rwhp minimum required for the Horsepower List, let alone the 330+ numbers of the full bolt on Cobra's are making. But back when I was maintaining the torque section of the list on the bottom, the Machs dominated it.

So, I think anyone who isnt allowing bias to affect their opinion will concede the Mach is a better matched and designed performance application in stock form. We will also have to agree the Cobra excells when modified for upper RPM operation and maximum horsepower.

If anyone cant handle that the Cobra does something better than the Mach 1, just tell yourself peak horsepower doesnt mean anything, it's what's under the curve that counts :rockon:

I gotcha on the gearing now. THe upper HP band in the cobra def. better matches 4.56s.

You actually did say the machs intake is restrictive, you even requoted it. "better matched the 'restrictive' intake.".

I disagree with the 10-15 less HP peak as well. Maybe you're recalling A4 machs instead of M5's, but they are roughly 275-285rwhp and yes SAE corrected. I get what you're saying about posting numbers. Most guys just post numbers and never post the dyno conditions and or correction factors. That's why I always ask what they are if not posted. :beer:

I believe most bolt on machs and Cobras are ~315rwhp with full exhaust, CAI, tune, and 'the like'. Cobra's may dyno a tad more hp in general at peak iwth those mods more often then not though. I see your point on that. The mach will dyno more TQ and a better low end band. Which goes with what your last statement is.

I wouldn't say I'm biased towards machs. Do I prefer them? Obviously, but at the same time, I'm not blind to the 99/01 4V either. If you are looking for bragging rights on the HP numbers with FI, then the cobra would do you better because of hte cams. Personally, I like the TQ number higher than the HP though. :lol:

I haven't seen any full bolt on only Cobra's (as in LT's, CAI, Tune, midpipe, catback) put down 330HP.....that's pretty good if they are. Machs are generally 310-320.


I definitely have respect for the Cobra's, I just personally prefer the mach. Can't go wrong either way, pending what each person wants.:beer:

Either way, both cars are have their pluses and minuses and it comes down to the individual preference. If you are into 'handling' then the cobra, if you are into drag racing then the mach...only because of how they are setup from the factory. Motor wise they are VERY similar.

But cobras are better. Why you ask? They came in convertibles.

Good point. 69-76 mach's were never avail. in convertible, which is why the 03/04s weren't, but man would an M5 AB Vert have been nice.:beer:

 

[ponygt65]

well you dig up pics of the 4 cars and then you show me the difference.

Which four cars?...the 99-01 and 03/04 mach/cobra? or the four in my sig?

My comment was in reference to teh 03/04 Cobra seats being the same as 03/04 machs aside from leather/suede.

In case you didnt' notice, i've owned both cars....and at the same time.

But, I'll gladly post picks of my four mustangs to prove I owned them if that's what you're getting at.

 

[ponygt65]

point is, your a tuff guy. proved me wrong. walk proud sir! after the horror stories i have read on here about boosted '99s, i wouldnt want one. plain and simple. junk, maybe not. but def not quality.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? My junk 99 Cobra stock motor with a little P1SC ran 10.98@126mph in the 1/4th. Since the 03 Cobra isn't junk how fast is your car? Now that I have built my junk motor its making double what your awsome motor makes. I have yet to understand how they are junk. Clue me in...?

Ladies, ladies...can't we all just get along?:lol::beer:

 

[mike1284]

point is, your a tuff guy. proved me wrong. walk proud sir! after the horror stories i have read on here about boosted '99s, i wouldnt want one. plain and simple. junk, maybe not. but def not quality.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? My junk 99 Cobra stock motor with a little P1SC ran 10.98@126mph in the 1/4th. Since the 03 Cobra isn't junk how fast is your car? Now that I have built my junk motor its making double what your awsome motor makes. I have yet to understand how they are junk. Clue me in...?

read man, i have never owned one, never will. goin off what i read on here for the 3rd time. you have all stock internals? just a blower bolted on and a tune? if so, congrats man. would seem like you are one of the lucky ones. my car isnt fast, im a loser that has alot of bills. no money to pour into her. get over yourslef. its never been to the track, might never go either. do you have anything better to do?

 

[matted2thefloor]

point is, your a tuff guy. proved me wrong. walk proud sir! after the horror stories i have read on here about boosted '99s, i wouldnt want one. plain and simple. junk, maybe not. but def not quality.

The ones that have gone south that you are referring to probably had other issues than solely a "junk" motor. Most likely there was a build issue or more importantly, a tuning issue.

Keep in mind, the motor is only as good as the builder (in any case) or the tuner (in boosted appplications)!

Parts do fail from time to time for no apparent reason other than manufacturing issues!!!

Don't be so quick to condemn a motor because of the ones you've "read" about...

 

[mike1284]

there not all "junk" i guess i shouldnt have said that. my bad guys. my buddies is runnin fine. though its no where near stock, inside or out. there are bad seeds, even in 03/04. i have read far less horror stories though. stopsign just has a huge internet **** he needs to stroke cause he thinks i meant him and him alone. im all for convo, but could careless for some dipshit e-thug

 

[Rotzs99]

Mike, better to just let it go. Truth be told, We 99/01 owners were not blessed with the superior genetics of the 03/04 cobras and use our ego/attitude to make up for it. Our block may be stronger, but the pistons and rods are not. We still have a great platform for supercharging. These motors are good until 450 rwhp with the right tune maybe more maybe less. ChromeCobra's banana was a good example (even though a 98, basically same motor) He put down 450rwhp and could easily hold his own with Flatliner and his ported combo. There are not a lot of s/c 99/01s running around our area so he is the best example i could think of. Many of the eaton swapped 99/01s on this forum are also around the 450rwhp mark.

 

[K2AHollywood]

there not all "junk" i guess i shouldnt have said that. my bad guys. my buddies is runnin fine. though its no where near stock, inside or out. there are bad seeds, even in 03/04. i have read far less horror stories though. stopsign just has a huge internet **** he needs to stroke cause he thinks i meant him and him alone. im all for convo, but could careless for some dipshit e-thug

Its ok Mike just ignore him, in another thread he claims to have a 450hp N/A motor, in here its S/C...who cares all he does in his threads is talk shit. Usually people who do that are huge tools with a long list of inadequacies so its best to just ignore it. Just feel sorry for him...

Mike, better to just let it go. Truth be told, We 99/01 owners were not blessed with the superior genetics of the 03/04 cobras and use our ego/attitude to make up for it. Our block may be stronger, but the pistons and rods are not. We still have a great platform for supercharging. These motors are good until 450 rwhp with the right tune maybe more maybe less. ChromeCobra's banana was a good example (even though a 98, basically same motor) He put down 450rwhp and could easily hold his own with Flatliner and his ported combo. There are not a lot of s/c 99/01s running around our area so he is the best example i could think of. Many of the eaton swapped 99/01s on this forum are also around the 450rwhp mark.

well put :beer: Double "O" is another great example of high HP on stock internals and tranny. With enough $ and mods anything can be fast

 

[Stopsign32v]

Its ok Mike just ignore him, in another thread he claims to have a 450hp N/A motor, in here its S/C...who cares all he does in his threads is talk shit. Usually people who do that are huge tools with a long list of inadequacies so its best to just ignore it. Just feel sorry for him...

I have more than one car buddy....you are more than welcome to come get all you want of either one. :loser:

 

[tmhutch]

Let's do our best to avoid the name calling and focus on contructive conversation.

Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The below graph contains the results from a 2004 Mach 1 VS a 2001 Cobra. Mods are almost identical except the Cobra has a stock intake and the Mach has a ported unit. Cold air intake, LT's, O/R X, Catback. I performed both of these dyno sessions on the same dyno. Notice how much more torque the Mach 1 delivers in the lower RPM range VS the Cobra. You can also see the Cobra shines a bit more in the top end. There is not the huge disparity found in the lower RPM's but if these two cars met on the street with equal drivers who punched it from a roll in fourth gear at low RPM, the Mach would kill the Cobra. Conversely, if two drivers met who knew how to drive, the Cobra would take the win because properly shifted DOHC cars rarely drop below 5300 RPM, when shifting at 6800.

Half a dozen one, six of another. It's a drivers race. They're both good cars.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Let's do our best to avoid the name calling

I agree, edited.

 

[Double"O"]

omg people let it go

 

[Nazman]

I haven't seen any full bolt on only Cobra's (as in LT's, CAI, Tune, midpipe, catback) put down 330HP.....that's pretty good if they are. Machs are generally 310-320.

My car was making 337/337 RWHP-TQ back in 2003 on a stock long block.

Mods:

WMS CAI w/S&B Filter
WMS 95mm MAF
Stock TB
Naz' Cut & Ported Intake
PHP Intake Spacer
JBA Shorty Headers
Dr. Gas X-Pipe
Magnaflow CB
AL Flywheel
AL DS
Meziere Electric Water Pump
U/D Alternator Pulley
Chris Johnson (JMS) Tune (26 Deg Timing ~13:1 AFR)

Motor was running very stong....but I hurt it on a top speed run while in Germany....doing ~7000RPMs in 5th gear with 4.30s it broke the passenger side exahust cam bolt, destroying the VT. Short block was ok, and later made 370ish RW with my lightly ported FR500 heads and FR500 cams and later made 410ish RW with the addtion of the FR500 intake.

The point made is that there are a quite a few making 330+ on bolt on's alone.

See Here for Reference


Naz

 

[mike1284]

Mike, better to just let it go. Truth be told, We 99/01 owners were not blessed with the superior genetics of the 03/04 cobras and use our ego/attitude to make up for it. Our block may be stronger, but the pistons and rods are not. We still have a great platform for supercharging. These motors are good until 450 rwhp with the right tune maybe more maybe less. ChromeCobra's banana was a good example (even though a 98, basically same motor) He put down 450rwhp and could easily hold his own with Flatliner and his ported combo. There are not a lot of s/c 99/01s running around our area so he is the best example i could think of. Many of the eaton swapped 99/01s on this forum are also around the 450rwhp mark.

good to know, but really, only 450? i know 99-04 gts were only good to right around up there too. kinda sucks to hear the cobras cant do much better. and chromecobras old car is so money. by the way, i still have a convertible boot...

 

[Rotzs99]

good to know, but really, only 450? i know 99-04 gts were only good to right around up there too. kinda sucks to hear the cobras cant do much better. and chromecobras old car is so money. by the way, i still have a convertible boot...

eh...some can push 500 depends on boost levels. A 99/01 cobra 450rwhp will be much more reliable than a GTs, and since our cobras respond much better to gears after that the competition is over. Again our pistons and rods not forged, neither are GTs, but our cranks are. Not 100% sure about this, but I think their blocks are done at 500hp, ours can go 2x that.

 

[Nazman]

good to know, but really, only 450? i know 99-04 gts were only good to right around up there too. kinda sucks to hear the cobras cant do much better. and chromecobras old car is so money. by the way, i still have a convertible boot...

Its not matter of a GT or Cobra, the rods are the same POS powdered metal and hypercrappy pistons. The Cobra crank along with the block will hold massive HP and RPM where the GT will not. When equiped with forged rods/pistons the 96-01 Cobra's are stronger than Terminators.

Remember, Ford was not thinking FI when they designed the 96-01 Cobra's.

These motors when maintained the right way, they are very reliable and strong powerplants.

Naz

 

[Riddla]

Too bad an LS1 would rape both the cobra and mach