Another dead Coyote - VMP TVS

[burke985]

Some people in this thread don't seem to understand that a bad tune can kill the best built motors as easily as a stock motor.

^^^^this (means what this guy said), IMO if you are("adding a blower") to the stock coyote motor and "dont push the envelope"(meaning run more boost than the bottom end of the stock motor can handle) and get a reputable tuner to dyno tune it(ex. shaun) theres nothing to be scared of (worrying about having a bad tune and blowing motor). $500 for a dyno tune(not that much money) or 5000 for a rebuild(alot more than 500). Ill go the Dyno tune route even if i have to wait longer(if it takes me an extra month to save for a dyno tune then so be it)

 

[bam2012@TBR]

What's the deal with this lately? Does it matter? I don't care if someone wants to build one just to blow it up and take a dump on the hood while it burns. :dw::banana: People sure are worried about other peoples cars and money on here lately LOL.

+1 My car is a fun dd with enough power to make me smile everytime I hit the gas.

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

+1 My car is a fun dd with enough power to make me smile everytime I hit the gas.

mine too
btw that tune would have killed a built motor too....

 

[Going for broke]

How many if any of these cars popping pistons are 2013-14's? It seems from what I have seen its primarily the 2011-12 model year.
I think that many things factor into these failures. Fuel quality, timing, temps, length of time at wot, tune, etc.. The list goes on and on.

 

[by9468840]

You can't really say if its more of a 11-12 problem. Earlier models will surely have more miles on clock and that's probably why we are no seeing those with long period of high boost abuse, blow up one by one.

 

[turbosha]

really thinking of a n/a build.
or aluminator replacement engine.
but the engine cost as much as a twin turbo kit.

 

[stewarts2008]

How many if any of these cars popping pistons are 2013-14's? It seems from what I have seen its primarily the 2011-12 model year.
I think that many things factor into these failures. Fuel quality, timing, temps, length of time at wot, tune, etc.. The list goes on and on.

I have always wondered the same thing. I have seen a 2013 5.0 with roush blow a valve at 12psi making about 650, but i think that has everything to do with the fact that it was at 12psi and about 650 hp with a roush

 

[mhyjek]

I still don't know why people who go fi and don't put methanol injection? Not to make more power but to boost octane and cool IAT. Then you don't have to worry about bad gas and keep a 600 wheel hp conservative good(AED)tune and I think the motor will hold.

 

[HEMI LOL]

remember the 13s have different pistons and no oil squirters. in a boost application with increased crank case pressure the increased windage along with the squirters causing even more windage maybe lead to a increased flow of oil mist getting back in the intake, resulting in a lean AFRs.

i too have seen some 13s making more power on average under boost. im not saying this is fact, but it is interesting when compared to other coyotes.

 

[CPRsm]

I still don't know why people who go fi and don't put methanol injection? Not to make more power but to boost octane and cool IAT. Then you don't have to worry about bad gas and keep a 600 wheel hp conservative good(AED)tune and I think the motor will hold.

Methanol is a band aid for improper intercooling. For it NOT to kill power you need to add timing, then you're still back in the same boat (adding timing and knowing where to stop), and now you have another possible problem in the mix. Run out of meth, pump locks up, map sensor fails, injector clogs, etc. You get the point lol. We've made so many 650rwhp+ pulls on shitty Ca 91 it might make you puke lol Even raced on 750rwhp+ tunes. Car still ran 10's and get great gas mileage.
Was talking to someone yesterday about it and he brought up a good point. These engines are 11-1 compression and can't be forgot. A very small tuning window. And some aren't peoples DD's. They might jump back in a car after sitting too long and think the tank is still holding fresh 91-93. Eh, point is you don't have to be so conservative you wash cylinder walls. But do need to know the difference between dyno timing and track timing, especially with FI cars. Where it needs to be pulled and where you can add it. Off my soap box now.

 

[RC-5.0]

^^^^this, IMO if you are an stock motor dont push the envelope on boost and get a reputable tuner to dyno tune it theres nothing to be scared of . 500 for a dyno tune or 5000 for a rebuild. Ill go the Dyno tune route even if i have to wait longer

Im not really sure what this sentence says or means.:shrug:

RC

 

[5PointOHNO]

OP, sorry to hear about this.

Reading about this makes me really think I am on borrowed time.

Last time I went to the track I crossed the beams on the limiter (approx 8000 rpm) and it trapped 133.

With respect to the trend of hurt coyotes, I believe that, with so many affordable options to double your horsepower, it is only a matter of time before you need a short block.

Lets hope this MT82 and 2011 coyote continue to buck that trend.

 

[mhyjek]

Methanol is a band aid for improper intercooling. For it NOT to kill power you need to add timing, then you're still back in the same boat (adding timing and knowing where to stop), and now you have another possible problem in the mix. Run out of meth, pump locks up, map sensor fails, injector clogs, etc. You get the point lol. We've made so many 650rwhp+ pulls on shitty Ca 91 it might make you puke lol Even raced on 750rwhp+ tunes. Car still ran 10's and get great gas mileage.
Was talking to someone yesterday about it and he brought up a good point. These engines are 11-1 compression and can't be forgot. A very small tuning window. And some aren't peoples DD's. They might jump back in a car after sitting too long and think the tank is still holding fresh 91-93. Eh, point is you don't have to be so conservative you wash cylinder walls. But do need to know the difference between dyno timing and track timing, especially with FI cars. Where it needs to be pulled and where you can add it. Off my soap box now.

On my speed3 I didn't add any timing was using a Cobb handheld and their canned tune I ran that car hard 12.9 at 113 with stock turbo Boltons and meth. Prior to meth the car would run 113 in early spring late fall my best time with meth was 100+ degree out day 12.9 113 mph. No added timing just safe guard for octane and consistency in heat, 50 meth 50 h2o.

Now if I wanted to push it could've added more timing but the stock little turbo was maxed out no reason to spin it out of its effeicncy

 

[burke985]

Im not really sure what this sentence says or means.:shrug:

RC

Fixed it for you :-D

 

[CPRsm]

On my speed3 I didn't add any timing was using a Cobb handheld and their canned tune I ran that car hard 12.9 at 113 with stock turbo Boltons and meth. Prior to meth the car would run 113 in early spring late fall my best time with meth was 100+ degree out day 12.9 113 mph. No added timing just safe guard for octane and consistency in heat, 50 meth 50 h2o.

Now if I wanted to push it could've added more timing but the stock little turbo was maxed out no reason to spin it out of its effeicncy

Dunno what to say. I've never played with boost on that lower of a HP car (no offense). Maybe you didn't have terrible inlets? Usually they become lazy and rich if you just slap on a kit and change nothing else. Maybe you used a small injection kit, or the ecu pulled fuel when it saw the meth? Couldn't say.
My customers can run in 110 deg heat an not have the inlets high enough to worry to be honest. But we spend the money on good cores and take intercooling too serious LOL

 

[Shaun@AED]

One must not forget the clearances these engines are built with. Not exactly 'boost friendly'. No amount of tuning can 'fix' this. There are reasons Factory Roush TVS cars make 480-500RWHP.

Piston-to-cylinder bore clearance 0.015-0.039 mm (0.0006-0.0015 in)
Piston ring end gap — top 0.15-0.25 mm (0.0059-0.0098 in)

 

[CPRsm]

Push it til you smell coolant, then back it down a touch.
Well, that used to apply until cometic/MLS gaskets. Might have to change to ,.....til the rings kiss.....lol

 

[13DIB5.0]

Lots of great info here. I love it, sorry to hear op. My car hasnt moved yet and still is on the base tune with the paxton. Just talked to my tuner and I no its 17 degrees now. Deff will be paying attention and picking his brain when he gets to tuning it.

 

[Ultrakla$$ic]

Push it til you smell coolant, then back in down a touch.
Well, that used to apply until cometic/MLS gaskets. Might have to change to ,.....til the rings kiss.....lol

:lol:

minimum of 700rwhp or stay home!!!!!!!!!! lol

 

[CPRsm]

That's how you gotta roll in cars that weigh this much LOL