Whipple 5.0 vs KB Cobra

[cobrakon]

Its not rocket science, the 5.0 has a larger displacement and higher compression, so yeah they produce good power, with or without mods.

Can they live with boost, I'm sure. But I wouldn't trust one to run as long as a similar factory terminator motor. Most high boost high hp coyotes have had the internals replaced and built. (Even the OP claims a built motor) They may not have done anything witht the topend as I'm assuming the heads/cams flow well, but the fact that people have to already build these motors to handle the boost shows something IMO. I dont' remember many terminators building them when throwing 20lbs of boost years ago.

And saying terminator motors aren't reliable at 700-800 hp, well depending on tune and how the owner treats it, yeah it could go. But the fact that some actually live at these levels without grenading the motor is still pretty amazing.



And while while some (due to owner or tune or both) may be living on borrowed time, with proper cooling mods and tune they last much better than other cars. Which says something.

And regarding the comment about being better handling, quaility, yadda yadda. They come with coil overs, even stiffer/optional suspension upgrades on top of this, and panhard bar. It handles better I'd assume to this more than some kind of magical chasis.

All the talk of well put a blower on the 5.0, build the motor of the 5.0 like the terminator... bla bla. Kind of sounds like ricer talk. Terminator owners could say, well give me coil overs, give me a larger engine..... Can go both ways. 2 different cars with 2 different packages to make power and handle.

great post hit the nail on the head.

 

[Freakingstang]

I would like to see a Terminator short block with 5.0 heads and tivct system swapped on. The Coyote block has a few areas that are lacking IMHO

buddy just windowed a new 5.0 with a KB 2.8 on it... powdered rods say bye bye on only 10psi. new boss 330 is between the fenders now.

No they don't make similar power with a similar blower. 2.8KB on a boss 5.0 makes more power than a 2.8KB on a cobra.

It will make more HP, but the Tq seems really low compared to a comparable terminator blower... my buddies 12' makes insane power but about 100ft/lbs lower tq... than a similar terminator with a 2.8/2.9...

 

[Black*Death]

You won't see it last for long as Modular's and Coyote's aren't the same even if they share the same footprint. Different coolant passages, etc. Besides why not start from scratch and build a much better shortblock than what's OEM on a Terminator if you could do that?

Continue to amaze me. The coyote is a modular engine so stop separating them that way.

There are many different years/variations of ford's modular, but all are modular engines.

Do I need to explain it again?

This is where you seem to separate modulars from coyote's again...COYOTE is a MODULAR engine...


The new 5.0's mod for mod are way more efficient motors than Modulars, and they don't suffer from the problems the Terminator motors have, and while their OEM components aren't physically as strong as a Terminators they are plenty strong enough to live in what most would consider a good safety range for generally reliable HP from a OEM Terminator motor.

 

[Black*Death]

Am I talking to a total retard. How am I in any way giving the impression that I don't know what a Modular motor is? Didn't I already say that Ford isn't going to spend more than they have too to build a motor?

If y'all know that you can build a better than factory OEM motor then quite acting like it's Gods give to all people wanting the stoutest and most reliable OEM motor because it's not that.

Yeah Ford rushed getting the Cobra to market. They had 1.5 years to do it from when they started until it hit the market. Cars don't get developed in a day or two. Fords probably already designing, developing, and testing the future 2016 Mustang by now.

Read this book.
Amazon.com: Iron Fist, Lead Foot: John Coletti and Ford's "Terminator" (9780595409709): Frank Moriarty: Books

A Terminator motor does not suck. I'm building a 88 GT with one. It's just not as great as y'all are trying to convince yourself that it is. I would much rather have a new 5.0 to throw in my Foxbody then it would be about 220 lbs lighter up front. This isn't 2002 anymore. Back then it was an awesome motor, and if you had 400 whp you had a pretty bad ass ride. Do you not remember? I sure as shit do. It's been over 10 years since they first went on sell and other motors have caught up, and Ford sure didn't go backwards with the new 5.0 you better believe that. The new Coyotes are better motors than DOHC Modulars.(my bet is the next Cobra/GT500 will have a 5.0 based motor isn't of the new 5.8 Modular based motor) No they're not fully forged in OEM trim, but it doesn't matter. If you can push a new Coyote past what it's internals are capable of supporting when you have everything else like your tune and fuel system set up right then you should be able to build the motor.

I mean if someone took a OEM Terminator motor and running a TS made 700 whp with it and a month later he blows the engine and complains about it are you going to be like "that shouldn't happen," or would you be like "well that's your bad, and you have to pay to play, and you should of gone built."? I mean no a Terminators 4.6 is not a better motor. If the 5.0 motor blows at those kind of HP levels then why can't he go built like shit loads of Terminators already have? I mean Coyotes have better cranks, better oiling/cooling systems, their heads are tons better, they're way lighter, etc.


I don't hate Terminators. They're a badass car. Yes I wrecked mine back in 2010, but I loved the car, and had a blast driving everyday for going on 4 years. I'm just being real about it though, while most of the other Terminator owners aren't.(yes I own my wrecked Terminator) The new GT's are lighter, better balanced, better platform, better suspension, better handling, better built, better at almost everything. Be happy that Ford stepped it up with the 2011+ GT, and quit hating them for it. I'm building a Termifox, and it will likely beat a Terminators ass HP for HP when I'm finish, but does that make a 88 GT with a Terminator motor a better car than a actual Terminator when a old Foxbody is built on a older, and flimsier platform than a Terminator? Even if it isn't that doesn't mean that Foxbody Mustangs aren't cool ass cars, and it's going to be fast as shit so why should I be pissed that a 15 year newer Mustang is a better overall car than my old Foxbody? Why should I be pissed that Ford stepped it up with there next generation of v8 Mustang motors that is better than the one that will be in my Modular swapped Foxbody?

Apparently looking for a ban by insulting people out of SD?


So if everybody Knows you can build a better motor than a terminator motor why do you bring it up? Just to type something? Everybody knows that so not really a strong point?

Hey newsflash...there are way better cars out there then a 5.0....do people not know that? Of course they do so saying there are better engines out there than a 03/04 cobra is not really telling anyone anything.

I don't care if you are building a Bugatti in your garage using a Terminator motor? They are a good solid motor that responds well to mods.

Is you whole point there are better motors out there? BFD, as I stated we all know this?

The coyote is likely a better motor, but it also a 5.0 liter running 11:0 compression? I have yet to read where anyone here said the 03/04 motor is better and the coyote is crap.

You labor under the delusion that the Coyote is amazing and the terminator is nothing special or you can build a better engine easily.

Have you read about the thinness of the coyote's block walls?

Have read the book...Car makers are always "rushed" to build a car. 2 years to build the terminators is enough time IMHO. Still a good amount of carry-over from other new Edge years.

Please change your name to Sean Hyland as you seem to think you are the "expert" on all things for the terminator and coyote.

You crashed your SB terminator and now you hate them...got it

 

[slagburn]

There have been a few 5.0's pushing out the thrust side of Bank 2 under extreme conditions. The 5.0 heads are legit, tivct works great. A little more wall thickness and support would be nice.

 

[BlueSnake01]

No they don't make similar power with a similar blower. 2.8KB on a boss 5.0 makes more power than a 2.8KB on a cobra.

I didn't see the KB, I was seeing the 2.3 whipple, both are making 550-ish whp. Of course the 5.0 is making more but its not something HUGE from both comparing their almost 10 years gap in technology. But like someone else said, their TQ looks pretty low, Cobra has an identical TQ and HP.

Still, these rants are useless and stupid. Build your car and drive it how you want it. You can make other cars faster for cheaper. Building the engine, doesnt that defeat the purpose of having a strong engine OEM? Since you can build ANY engine.

I just find it hilarious how people keep bringing the whole "The 5.0 handles a lot better!!" So tell me, whens the last time you took yours to an actual track :bored:

Wanna talk about having a car with great steering response and firm chassis? Buy a car thats made for it. 5.0 has great handling but from what I have read, its not a car you feel secure in making the corners, it also feels big. Great improvement over any Mustang before it but people, please stop putting it on a pedastal same with the Terminator.

 

[T800]

You implied that people just run around with 700-800 WHP on a stock longblock with great reliablity or something. Okay you didn't say "amazingly reliable" you said "INCREDIBLY durable/insane amount of RELIABLE hp."

You're the one spouting a bunch of BS. I never once said "Cobra motors suck". I might have said they're a 655 lbs cast iron weight or something which they are.

Do you need me to explain anything else?

Nope got it.

You like to read into what people are saying rather than just READ. As far as being a "newb"...I am old enough to remember a time when that term didn't exist and have been building cars long before that. Hint: It was before you started playing Halo.

I didn't "imply" anything. The 4.6 in the 03-04 cars IS a reliable motor and DOES make insane power. Thats what was said. You seem to take offense to that and immediately get massive nipple chafe.

If anyone has the mental fortitude to make it through this thread and see the massive derailment(of which I have been a contributor) they deserve some sort of medal.

Keep chuggin' Jroc. Ever make it up my way, we can talk about it in person...less confusion that way.

 

[Jroc]

Its not rocket science, the 5.0 has a larger displacement and higher compression, so yeah they produce good power, with or without mods.

Can they live with boost, I'm sure. But I wouldn't trust one to run as long as a similar factory terminator motor. Most high boost high hp coyotes have had the internals replaced and built. (Even the OP claims a built motor) They may not have done anything witht the topend as I'm assuming the heads/cams flow well, but the fact that people have to already build these motors to handle the boost shows something IMO. I dont' remember many terminators building them when throwing 20lbs of boost years ago.

And saying terminator motors aren't reliable at 700-800 hp, well depending on tune and how the owner treats it, yeah it could go. But the fact that some actually live at these levels without grenading the motor is still pretty amazing.

And while while some (due to owner or tune or both) may be living on borrowed time, with proper cooling mods and tune they last much better than other cars. Which says something.

And regarding the comment about being better handling, quaility, yadda yadda. They come with coil overs, even stiffer/optional suspension upgrades on top of this, and panhard bar. It handles better I'd assume to this more than some kind of magical chasis.

All the talk of well put a blower on the 5.0, build the motor of the 5.0 like the terminator... bla bla. Kind of sounds like ricer talk. Terminator owners could say, well give me coil overs, give me a larger engine..... Can go both ways. 2 different cars with 2 different packages to make power and handle.

Your post is laughable. Okay lets assume that 50% of the OEM motors will survive at 700 WHP for a noticeable time,(which I doubt) but the other 50% won't then no they are not reliable motor. Most Terminators that make this type of power on OEM motors aren't frequent street cars.

You want to do a real effective cooling mod that actually works? Build the motor using good, smartly selected pistons. Most good builders will bump the compression up some, give the piston more clearance with the cylinderwall, and will use pistons with mounted lower on them. All this HCM, DP H/E, bigger reservoirs, etc are just gimmicks on a street car. E85 is an effective cooling mod.

I had MM C/O's(375 front/575 rear spring rates) with MM valve Bilstein Sport struts/shocks, fully built IRS using the complete FTB kit, FLSFC, MM k-member brace, etc and I still say my L is a better handler than my Terminator.(I just wish it came with Manley H-Beams like my Terminator) Obviously my Cobra was more flickable, and lighter, and in a high speed turn the leaf springs will start to feel a little bit wallowy, and the Cobra feels noticeable better there, but my L does two important things better than a Terminator.(I've driven several) It has way more grip both F/R, and it's quite a bit more communicative about approaching it's limits. My car felt like an improved on stock Cobra which means the front end still wanted to push heavily when driven aggressively in a turn. Every S197 car I've driven is a better handling vehicle than my L, and especially the new GT's. If you want to do real noticeable improvements to the Cobras handling I recommend going with an improved frontend geometry(Griggs/MM) building a lighter aluminum block motor, and some good in-floor SFC's. Trust me if you ever install some In Floor SFC's you will completely understand why Foxbody/SN95 cars are considered to have very flimsy chassis. I remember back in the day all the old school Terminator RR's saying that the Roush and Steeda S197 cars give them fit's and they are only able to compete with them because of their power advantage. A S197 is a far superior platform to a 1977 Ford Fairmonts which you cars platform is based on.

Continue to amaze me. The coyote is a modular engine so stop separating them that way.

There are many different years/variations of ford's modular, but all are modular engines.

Do I need to explain it again?

This is where you seem to separate modulars from coyote's again...COYOTE is a MODULAR engine...


The new 5.0's mod for mod are way more efficient motors than Modulars, and they don't suffer from the problems the Terminator motors have, and while their OEM components aren't physically as strong as a Terminators they are plenty strong enough to live in what most would consider a good safety range for generally reliable HP from a OEM Terminator motor.

No a Coyote is not a Modular motor. While many things are similar much is not, and most will not interchange. Even the firing order is different between them.

Apparently looking for a ban by insulting people out of SD?


So if everybody Knows you can build a better motor than a terminator motor why do you bring it up? Just to type something? Everybody knows that so not really a strong point?

Hey newsflash...there are way better cars out there then a 5.0....do people not know that? Of course they do so saying there are better engines out there than a 03/04 cobra is not really telling anyone anything.

I don't care if you are building a Bugatti in your garage using a Terminator motor? They are a good solid motor that responds well to mods.

Is you whole point there are better motors out there? BFD, as I stated we all know this?

The coyote is likely a better motor, but it also a 5.0 liter running 11:0 compression? I have yet to read where anyone here said the 03/04 motor is better and the coyote is crap.

You labor under the delusion that the Coyote is amazing and the terminator is nothing special or you can build a better engine easily.

Have you read about the thinness of the coyote's block walls?

Have read the book...Car makers are always "rushed" to build a car. 2 years to build the terminators is enough time IMHO. Still a good amount of carry-over from other new Edge years.

Please change your name to Sean Hyland as you seem to think you are the "expert" on all things for the terminator and coyote.

You crashed your SB terminator and now you hate them...got it

Are you trying to change the subject by talking shit? I'm bring up the build motor thing to let the fanboys know there's a good reason that many Terminator owners go build, and it's sure isn't because there OEM motors are indestructible.

Newsflash no there are not very many factory motors(especially mass produced motors) currently on the market that are better for modding than the new 5.0's especially when you add $ into the whole equation.

Yes a Terminator motor is a solid motor that responds well to mods. Agreed. That's all they are though. They are not amazing motors though, at least not in 2012.

What needs to be said y'all get offended if someone ever post a Terminator losing to a 5.0 like it shouldn't happen or something. Y'all started flaming me. I said a Coyote is a better motor even though the OEM parts in a Terminatior are inherently stronger, but that a Terminator motor making several hundred of more HP over a OEM motor isn't overly reliable, and y'all get all but hurt. If you take and build a old SBF 302 and make say a fully forged 331, with top of the line everything and boost it well past 1000 whp does that make a old SBF a better motor than a DOHC Modular?

I'm not the one delusional. Yes right now at this time a 5.0 is a pretty special motor. It makes way more N/A HP than any N/A 4.6 ever hoped to from the factory, and it does it on 87 octane, while getting great MPG's, and being refined, and able to supports 100's of HP more than it does factory, all wihile be a mass products factory motor that takes great to mods even in N/A form with on 302 ci's, and it will make 600+ whp with 7/8 PSI's using a positive displacement blower, much less turbo's or a efficient centrifugal blower. What's not to like? A Terminator is a special motor/car for it's time. It's time has passed in a sense. There was a time when a 350, or EFI 5.0 OHV, or LS1, etc was special motors, but that doesn't mean that they will stay at the toop of the food chain forever. A Terminator motor is still a good piece, but the new 5.0 has just brought it down a notch as when you consider all things it a better piece.

I don't need to read about the thicknesses of Coyote block walls. While a Coyote is not a Modular it's still based off it and it shares bore spacing, but has a larger bore than a Modular which doesn't have much room to bore it over. Still a Boss 302 Modular block has a larger bore than a Coyote.

Yes I've wrecked my Terminator, but I've also driven 3v GT's, GT500's, and Coyote GT's and I know for a fact that a new Mustang GT is a way better car than a Terminator. When you consider the overall car it's not even close. My bet is you've never even ridden in a new 5.0 so you don't really know you're just following the little fanboy Terminator crowd.

Nope got it.

You like to read into what people are saying rather than just READ. As far as being a "newb"...I am old enough to remember a time when that term didn't exist and have been building cars long before that. Hint: It was before you started playing Halo.

I didn't "imply" anything. The 4.6 in the 03-04 cars IS a reliable motor and DOES make insane power. Thats what was said. You seem to take offense to that and immediately get massive nipple chafe.

If anyone has the mental fortitude to make it through this thread and see the massive derailment(of which I have been a contributor) they deserve some sort of medal.

Keep chuggin' Jroc. Ever make it up my way, we can talk about it in person...less confusion that way.

I've never played Halo,(the only reason I have a 360 is for Forza 4) and you are a newb to the "TERM"

You seem to downplay everything you say. You jumped my ass because I said that the 5.0's are better than Terminator motors.(which they are) I don't give a damn that they used forged parts are in and of themselves strong pieces because tons have broken. They are not a great OEM motor to survive day in and day out abuse at 600+ WHP if you intend to drive them like most people want to. I don't take offense to you liking your car. You should as they are fast, and fun cars, but they are not going to dominate forever. They are now a pretty old car, and seeing as how Coyote 5.0's are better motors than Modular 4.6's then yes a new GT motor is better than a 03/04 Cobra motor.

What is your way?

 

[cobrakon]

Your post is laughable. Okay lets assume that 50% of the OEM motors will survive at 700 WHP for a noticeable time,(which I doubt) but the other 50% won't then no they are not reliable motor. Most Terminators that make this type of power on OEM motors aren't frequent street cars.

You want to do a real effective cooling mod that actually works? Build the motor using good, smartly selected pistons. Most good builders will bump the compression up some, give the piston more clearance with the cylinderwall, and will use pistons with mounted lower on them. All this HCM, DP H/E, bigger reservoirs, etc are just gimmicks on a street car. E85 is an effective cooling mod.

I had MM C/O's(375 front/575 rear spring rates) with MM valve Bilstein Sport struts/shocks, fully built IRS using the complete FTB kit, FLSFC, MM k-member brace, etc and I still say my L is a better handler than my Terminator.(I just wish it came with Manley H-Beams like my Terminator) Obviously my Cobra was more flickable, and lighter, and in a high speed turn the leaf springs will start to feel a little bit wallowy, and the Cobra feels noticeable better there, but my L does two important things better than a Terminator.(I've driven several) It has way more grip both F/R, and it's quite a bit more communicative about approaching it's limits. My car felt like an improved on stock Cobra which means the front end still wanted to push heavily when driven aggressively in a turn. Every S197 car I've driven is a better handling vehicle than my L, and especially the new GT's. If you want to do real noticeable improvements to the Cobras handling I recommend going with an improved frontend geometry(Griggs/MM) building a lighter aluminum block motor, and some good in-floor SFC's. Trust me if you ever install some In Floor SFC's you will completely understand why Foxbody/SN95 cars are considered to have very flimsy chassis. I remember back in the day all the old school Terminator RR's saying that the Roush and Steeda S197 cars give them fit's and they are only able to compete with them because of their power advantage. A S197 is a far superior platform to a 1977 Ford Fairmonts which you cars platform is based on.



No a Coyote is not a Modular motor. While many things are similar much is not, and most will not interchange. Even the firing order is different between them.



Are you trying to change the subject by talking shit? I'm bring up the build motor thing to let the fanboys know there's a good reason that many Terminator owners go build, and it's sure isn't because there OEM motors are indestructible.

Newsflash no there are not very many factory motors(especially mass produced motors) currently on the market that are better for modding than the new 5.0's especially when you add $ into the whole equation.

Yes a Terminator motor is a solid motor that responds well to mods. Agreed. That's all they are though. They are not amazing motors though, at least not in 2012.

What needs to be said y'all get offended if someone ever post a Terminator losing to a 5.0 like it shouldn't happen or something. Y'all started flaming me. I said a Coyote is a better motor even though the OEM parts in a Terminatior are inherently stronger, but that a Terminator motor making several hundred of more HP over a OEM motor isn't overly reliable, and y'all get all but hurt. If you take and build a old SBF 302 and make say a fully forged 331, with top of the line everything and boost it well past 1000 whp does that make a old SBF a better motor than a DOHC Modular?

I'm not the one delusional. Yes right now at this time a 5.0 is a pretty special motor. It makes way more N/A HP than any N/A 4.6 ever hoped to from the factory, and it does it on 87 octane, while getting great MPG's, and being refined, and able to supports 100's of HP more than it does factory, all wihile be a mass products factory motor that takes great to mods even in N/A form with on 302 ci's, and it will make 600+ whp with 7/8 PSI's using a positive displacement blower, much less turbo's or a efficient centrifugal blower. What's not to like? A Terminator is a special motor/car for it's time. It's time has passed in a sense. There was a time when a 350, or EFI 5.0 OHV, or LS1, etc was special motors, but that doesn't mean that they will stay at the toop of the food chain forever. A Terminator motor is still a good piece, but the new 5.0 has just brought it down a notch as when you consider all things it a better piece.

I don't need to read about the thicknesses of Coyote block walls. While a Coyote is not a Modular it's still based off it and it shares bore spacing, but has a larger bore than a Modular which doesn't have much room to bore it over. Still a Boss 302 Modular block has a larger bore than a Coyote.

Yes I've wrecked my Terminator, but I've also driven 3v GT's, GT500's, and Coyote GT's and I know for a fact that a new Mustang GT is a way better car than a Terminator. When you consider the overall car it's not even close. My bet is you've never even ridden in a new 5.0 so you don't really know you're just following the little fanboy Terminator crowd.



I've never played Halo,(the only reason I have a 360 is for Forza 4) and you are a newb to the "TERM"

You seem to downplay everything you say. You jumped my ass because I said that the 5.0's are better than Terminator motors.(which they are) I don't give a damn that they used forged parts are in and of themselves strong pieces because tons have broken. They are not a great OEM motor to survive day in and day out abuse at 600+ WHP if you intend to drive them like most people want to. I don't take offense to you liking your car. You should as they are fast, and fun cars, but they are not going to dominate forever. They are now a pretty old car, and seeing as how Coyote 5.0's are better motors than Modular 4.6's then yes a new GT motor is better than a 03/04 Cobra motor.

What is your way?

you need to read up

Ford Modular engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jroc]

you need to read up

Ford Modular engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't care what Wikipedia says. Take a Coyote and a 4.6 and see what pieces interchange. Not very many. A 4.6 Modular and a Coyote are very different motors.

 

[HPRacing]

TL;DR Version.

Since 2002-ish, when the Terminator powerplant was completed, Ford has leveraged technology and lessons learned to deliver US Mustang enthusiasts the next great engine, the Coytote.

Much to the Coyote's credit it can put down the HP N/A that the Cobra of yester-year put down supercharged. (Stock for Stock, roughly)

Much to the credit of the Cobra of yester-year it is humbly hanging in there despite all advances in technology that have been implemented in the Coyote.


People have one car over the other for various reasons, who cares. I for one can't afford a new 5.0 for my hobby car, so I'll stick with the Cobra for the time being and be jealous of the 5.0 owners.

Can we all play nice now? Same team..... right?

 

[4601S/C]

I don't care what Wikipedia says. Take a Coyote and a 4.6 and see what pieces interchange. Not very many. A 4.6 Modular and a Coyote are very different motors.

I was under the impression that a Mod motor was called such because the tooling used to make them was so similar & because of the parts compatibility. Hence a single build line could do multiple engine configurations:shrug:? I thought the new 5.0 would pretty much bolt into any SN95 or New Edge car as well.

Not that anyone does it, but if I wanted to couldn't I install an entire OE terminator or SN95 build around a new 5.0 crate engine?

I'm still learning hereoke:.

 

[brainpa]

Man, this is bad. Talk about thread degradation.

 

[Jroc]

TL;DR Version.

Since 2002-ish, when the Terminator powerplant was completed, Ford has leveraged technology and lessons learned to deliver US Mustang enthusiasts the next great engine, the Coytote.

Much to the Coyote's credit it can put down the HP N/A that the Cobra of yester-year put down supercharged. (Stock for Stock, roughly)

Much to the credit of the Cobra of yester-year it is humbly hanging in there despite all advances in technology that have been implemented in the Coyote.


People have one car over the other for various reasons, who cares. I for one can't afford a new 5.0 for my hobby car, so I'll stick with the Cobra for the time being and be jealous of the 5.0 owners.

Can we all play nice now? Same team..... right?

Good post.

Yes and I really do love Terminators, and think that they are badass cars. They're like Foxbodies where 10 years ago in the sense that they are no longer the best Mustang out there and they are rough around the edges by todays standard, but that's part of the appeal. They are just fun, raw, and pissed off cars, and like the old Foxbody 5.0 EFI motors the Cobra's built, and boosted motor did a whole lot to define and influence the way people are making power, and modding their cars today. And while I've been saying that Cobra motors aren't overly reliable look at the HP ranges we are talking about. Lets just say that in general 600-650 whp is what most consider the safe range for reliable HP in a Terminator with a TS. Well that's a lot, it's just not world beating anymore, and the Coyotes will live in that HP range to.

I'll show love to the Terminators all day, but not when a bunch of fanboys start acting like its some superior car to a new 5.0. It's not, and it would be a shame if it was as Ford should be building a better car after all this time. People should be happy that the new 5.0 cars are as good as they are.

I was under the impression that a Mod motor was called such because the tooling used to make them was so similar & because of the parts compatibility. Hence a single build line could do multiple engine configurations:shrug:? I thought the new 5.0 would pretty much bolt into any SN95 or New Edge car as well.

Not that anyone does it, but if I wanted to couldn't I install an entire OE terminator or SN95 build around a new 5.0 crate engine?

I'm still learning hereoke:.

Exactly.

The Coyote is not a Modular motor.

Yes you can swap a Coyote in a Terminator. It's block share pretty much the same footprint, but it would probably not be a direct swap when you take electronics into accoutnt and things like that, but most of the parts are out there to do the swap into Foxbody, and SN95 car.

Still I wouldn't do that. Not that it wouldn't be a better overall as in factory form a Coyote weighs a lot less(over 200 lbs less) and that would be off the noise of the car, but the motor is what made the Terminator. It came factory boosted so it was stout, and responded really well to mods, and has kick ass factory rods that can be reused along with the crank and block(I personally would go with a lighter aluminum block, but an Iron block is overall a strong piece no doubt) so a good, strong built motor can be done "relatively speaking" fairly cheap. I think it's ridiculous how the fanboys act like the Terminator is the elite of all Mustang, but with that said they earned their rep. I would just build a good motor using the basic setup that is used from the factory instead of swapping to a different platform of motor. If you twerk a Terminator the right way it will make more HP than you'll ever know what to do with on the street.

Here's an example of a good and smart Terminator motor built. This is an old buddy of mines car(I haven't seen him in a few years) It's a 4.6 block with a stroker crank making 5.0 liters of displacement, FGT heads that I feel sure have had some work done on them, a Whipple 2.3, and IDK what else, but he's making a ton of HP on a good, simple, but effective build. I haven't talked with him since he got his car back to going but I wonder what happened. He had a Boss 302 Modular block(uses a 3.700" bore) for it that he was going to build into a 5.3. This guy made over 600 whp with a Steggy stage 4 M112 running a 2.8/#2 pulley setup with his own ported heads, and custom ground cams to his specs, Kooks LT's catted X, etc using a stock bottomend. This guy knows how to build a bad ass Terminator.

Macon Moore 04 Cobra Ford GT Heads 5.0 Stroke - YouTube

 

[cobrakon]

I don't care what Wikipedia says. Take a Coyote and a 4.6 and see what pieces interchange. Not very many. A 4.6 Modular and a Coyote are very different motors.

according to what i've read the differences are not all that great. slightly better flowing heads and the bore and stroke have increased over the 4.6 plus it'a an aluminum block so it's lighter. you make it seem like night and day but it's not. as far as the 5.0 being a mod motor, well it is. mod does not refer to the motors themselves but the assembly plant and tooling. like i said before you need to do some more reading.

 

[cobrakon]

TL;DR Version.

Since 2002-ish, when the Terminator powerplant was completed, Ford has leveraged technology and lessons learned to deliver US Mustang enthusiasts the next great engine, the Coytote.

Much to the Coyote's credit it can put down the HP N/A that the Cobra of yester-year put down supercharged. (Stock for Stock, roughly)

Much to the credit of the Cobra of yester-year it is humbly hanging in there despite all advances in technology that have been implemented in the Coyote.


People have one car over the other for various reasons, who cares. I for one can't afford a new 5.0 for my hobby car, so I'll stick with the Cobra for the time being and be jealous of the 5.0 owners.

Can we all play nice now? Same team..... right?

why be jealous? in a few years your car will be worth more or the same as a used 5.0 and if you want you can downgrade. that's your choice.

 

[Jroc]

according to what i've read the differences are not all that great. slightly better flowing heads and the bore and stroke have increased over the 4.6. you make it seem like night and day but it's not. as far as the 5.0 being a mod motor, well it is. mod does not refer to the motors themselves but the assembly plant and tooling. like i said before you need to do some more reading.

So since my old 99 GT's motor was a Windsor, but my Cobra's motor a Romeo which are two different plants they are somehow both Modulars. The physical size of the 4.6, and 5.0 blocks are pretty much the same. They take the same bellhousing. They are very different motors. Very few parts will interchange. They are not the same motor. The only Modular heads in the same ballpark with Coyote heads interms of flow are the 2K Cobra R/FGT/GT500 heads which all flow pretty much the same, and the Coyote heads are quite a bit physically smaller than Modular DOHC heads.

 

[cobrakon]

So since my old 99 GT's motor was a Windsor, but my Cobra's motor a Romeo which are two different plants they are somehow both Modulars. The physical size of the 4.6, and 5.0 blocks are pretty much the same. They take the same bellhousing. They are very different motors. Very few parts will interchange. They are not the same motor. The only Modular heads in the same ballpark with Coyote heads interms of flow are the 2K Cobra R/FGT/GT500 heads which all flow pretty much the same, and the Coyote heads are quite a bit physically smaller than Modular DOHC heads.

i know you're trying to convince me of the huge differences between the coyote and terminator block but you didn't. you did just the opposite. you seemed to have proven my point, thanks. the first production modular motor was a 4.6 2v sohc built in 1991. so yes, your 99 gt motor and terminator motor built at different plants are both mod motors and so is the coyote.

 

[Qwk GT]

Your post is laughable. Okay lets assume that 50% of the OEM motors will survive at 700 WHP for a noticeable time,(which I doubt) but the other 50% won't then no they are not reliable motor. Most Terminators that make this type of power on OEM motors aren't frequent street cars.

You want to do a real effective cooling mod that actually works? Build the motor using good, smartly selected pistons. Most good builders will bump the compression up some, give the piston more clearance with the cylinderwall, and will use pistons with mounted lower on them. All this HCM, DP H/E, bigger reservoirs, etc are just gimmicks on a street car. E85 is an effective cooling mod.

I had MM C/O's(375 front/575 rear spring rates) with MM valve Bilstein Sport struts/shocks, fully built IRS using the complete FTB kit, FLSFC, MM k-member brace, etc and I still say my L is a better handler than my Terminator.(I just wish it came with Manley H-Beams like my Terminator) Obviously my Cobra was more flickable, and lighter, and in a high speed turn the leaf springs will start to feel a little bit wallowy, and the Cobra feels noticeable better there, but my L does two important things better than a Terminator.(I've driven several) It has way more grip both F/R, and it's quite a bit more communicative about approaching it's limits. My car felt like an improved on stock Cobra which means the front end still wanted to push heavily when driven aggressively in a turn. Every S197 car I've driven is a better handling vehicle than my L, and especially the new GT's. If you want to do real noticeable improvements to the Cobras handling I recommend going with an improved frontend geometry(Griggs/MM) building a lighter aluminum block motor, and some good in-floor SFC's. Trust me if you ever install some In Floor SFC's you will completely understand why Foxbody/SN95 cars are considered to have very flimsy chassis. I remember back in the day all the old school Terminator RR's saying that the Roush and Steeda S197 cars give them fit's and they are only able to compete with them because of their power advantage. A S197 is a far superior platform to a 1977 Ford Fairmonts which you cars platform is based on.

I've always disageed with a lot of your posts, but now I'm just even more amazed at how much nonsense comes out of you.

No shit subframes make the car handle better. I wasn't asking for your opionon on how to improve handling. I was stating the differences between the two cars and how that helps the new 5.0's handling rather than this vaunted stiffer chasis. Maybe I should've added that to the ricer comment I mentioned.

Its not like this car requires a lighter block to lose weight on the front end to make it handle better. Will it do wonders, yeah, but the car can handle quite well without it, with normal suspension upgrades, including SFC's. And a step further, yeah the coil overs. Want to go further, yeah, then you start with the K membes and other bits. No need to spout your knowledge as it doesn't impress me.

And WTF, you're actually telling me your L handles better than your Cobra. Keep dreaming, and pass whateve you're smoking over. You complain about the cobra's weight distribution and crap handling, yet your truck with even worse weight distribution, total weight, and..........****ing leaf springs is going to handle better.:bash: Dont' get me wong I think a L would be a cool truck to own, but come on.

You're all overr the place. You even contradict yourself again as you have in your other posts.

Spare me the "I've driven tons of S197's." I've owned an 07 GT500, I know what they handle like, I know what they are like on the inside, and have experienced the improved build quality. Did it handle better than any other SRA car I've owned, pobably but not entirely sure.. But when you live in a state where the roads are generally crap and twisty, the SRA shows its weakness and age, even with the improved chasis/panhard bar/coil overs ect. Does my Cobra do better, I really couldn't tell you, but I prefer an IRS no matter what the car. (Can't wait for Ford to put another IRS in the new Mustangs)

Was it a better build quality (07 gt500), yeah, but lets face it, that doesn't mean shit. Its still poor for a car in that era anyway. My g/f's 06 M35 made my gt500 feel like a POS on the inside. Its like that one of the biggest areguments you guys state about the new car. Of course its built better, no one is arguing that. Get over it.

And if 50% of the cars at that power level grenade the motor, I garauntee you with similar circumstances very few other cars would even have that survival rate, given the same treatment. Yeah, only cooling mod is to build the motor... Whatever. No one ever said these motors are perfect, but pretty damn good to begin with. There are tons of guys road racing these cars, doing different cooling mods. Will these always save the motor, no, but they help.

But like I said in my previous post, 2 different platforms, different packages, different advantages and disadvantages....

 

[Silver2003Cobra]

A 2.9 WHIPPLE coyote on pump gas ? Good kill OP .... Kb 03-04s are blehhhh would be nice to see a 2.9 WHIPPLE coyote vs 2.9 WHIPPLE cobra

both maxed out, on stock internals, easy win for the Terminator. If both are on pump gas, easy win for the 5.0.. (higher compression makes for more power in the 5.0, MUCH better internals in the Terminator make for more total power)