Whipple 5.0 vs KB Cobra

[fleshmcfilth123]

Boss 5.0>Cobra 4.6. More power stock without a blower, more potential, better heads, more displacement, VVT, better chassis. Don't get me wrong, I've struggled about whether to put a blower on my (non-Boss) 5.0 or buy a KB/Whipple Terminator, but bottom line is the Boss 5.0 is a better car.

Looks are subjective, I think the new edge cars looks old and cheap compared to a 10-12 GT.

 

[Mike Morris]

Actually Colletti's biography states he worked on the 95/96 Cobras.

but to call a car nothing special when you do not own or drive one is a bit naive.

He also was the man behind the SN95 when it debuted in 1994. Agreed

cool story bro.

Btw, your cobra isn't a cobra. its simply a lincoln engine equip mustang. Colleti had nothing to do with your car. until you have some seat time, or own one, why don't you STFU?

like I said, cool story ***

Wow how old are you? Yes it a Cobra and if he was a homosexual what does that have to do with the thread???

get an 03/4 then tell me to stfu. the new mustangs have great powerplants but the styling is still retro. that's called going backwards. let the mustang start going forward with modern styling and then we can appreciate what a great car it will be.

Styling is a matter if opinion. It is a great car and probably the best buy i terms of the the three pony car offerings

Some of you guys need to calm down....

 

[bmitchell373]

5.0 ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Black*Death]

Boss 5.0>Cobra 4.6. More power stock without a blower, more potential, better heads, more displacement, VVT, better chassis. Don't get me wrong, I've struggled about whether to put a blower on my (non-Boss) 5.0 or buy a KB/Whipple Terminator, but bottom line is the Boss 5.0 is a better car.

Looks are subjective, I think the new edge cars looks old and cheap compared to a 10-12 GT.

Looks are subjective...NE may look old but 10-12 don't exactly look expensive inside

 

[slagburn]

Looks are subjective...NE may look old but 10-12 don't exactly look expensive inside

You probably don't agree.. hell I KNOW you don't agree, but I waited to get a Mustang until they dealt with the interior. Just couldn't get past all the poor fitting overly curvy plastic in the older cars.

 

[bmitchell373]

I love the new edge! I had a 99GT and loved it. Hated the cup holder, but it was better in the 02-04. I plan to own another at some point. (Not a 03 Cobra) But my 12 is so much nicer. Its user friendly, quiet!, and there all plastic. I do admit the 99 didn't seem as "fake" but the 12 is nicer. Dosen't make sense, but that's my feelings.

 

[Black*Death]

You probably don't agree.. hell I KNOW you don't agree, but I waited to get a Mustang until they dealt with the interior. Just couldn't get past all the poor fitting overly curvy plastic in the older cars.

I see you prefer straight plastic to curvy plastic...got it

 

[bmitchell373]

I see you prefer straight plastic to curvy plastic...got it

Straight is always better than curvy. I want her to bounce not twist and curve haha.

 

[cobrakon]

Like this one?

Yes that is my old car.



You can choose to own it or not to own it, but I'm just giving you facts. Some fairly high HP Terminators live a decently long life on factory motors. Many do not. And to always up and blame it on a tune at the drop of a hat is dumb because most Terminator owners trying to push over 500 whp out of their cars have enough sense to use reputable tuners who put good safe tunes on the car. It goes back to the whole "got to pay to play" thing. When you start bumping the HP over the factory HP the way that Terminator owners do then you are going to start compromising reliably, as the car wasn't designed to handle that kind of power and boost with a OEM motor. Again a well built Terminator motor is a lot better than a factory one.

that was a bad ass cobra. surprised that you go around spouting how inferior cobras are to 5.0s when you owned the baddest mustang around.

 

[cobrakon]

hilarious, **** vettes and camaros. those cars make the new 5.0 look like a bugatti.

 

[T800]

Exactly. T800 is trying to push them to be almost indestructible motors regardless of HP though, and I'm saying on.

Trying to argue that a 03/04 Cobra is some amazingly reliable car with 700/800 HP on a OEM motor is not correct.

Thanks Super Genius.

Not at all what I said. You started this whole pile of ass hat telling me how the 5.0 is a better motor. I simply mentioned(in defense of the 4.6) that there are cars making 700-800hp+ on the stock longblock. In no way did I say they were "amazingly reliable" at that power level. The fact that it is possible to do that with ANY reliablity shows what a quality power plant it is.

Somebody posted what I was getting at. A factory built forged engine, built with boost in mind is more often than not going to be a better platform than an N/A motor that you strap a blower on.

One thing I continually notice in your posts is a bashing followed by a retraction in the same post. Kind of a "Cobra motors suck" folowed by a "...but they are an awesome motor...mod it!". :dw:

As far as my comment on tuning(er's) goes, it was in reference to A/F ratio's being off...thus the afore mentioned lean condition resulting in piston failure.

Carry on.

 

[Black*Death]

Straight is always better than curvy. I want her to bounce not twist and curve haha.

I see what you did there...

 

[Jroc]

Thanks Super Genius.

Not at all what I said. You started this whole pile of ass hat telling me how the 5.0 is a better motor. I simply mentioned(in defense of the 4.6) that there are cars making 700-800hp+ on the stock longblock. In no way did I say they were "amazingly reliable" at that power level. The fact that it is possible to do that with ANY reliablity shows what a quality power plant it is.

Somebody posted what I was getting at. A factory built forged engine, built with boost in mind is more often than not going to be a better platform than an N/A motor that you strap a blower on.

One thing I continually notice in your posts is a bashing followed by a retraction in the same post. Kind of a "Cobra motors suck" folowed by a "...but they are an awesome motor...mod it!". :dw:

As far as my comment on tuning(er's) goes, it was in reference to A/F ratio's being off...thus the afore mentioned lean condition resulting in piston failure.

Carry on.

Look newb a Coyote is a way better motor than a 4.6 period. Quit acting stupid. Look at what you said:

What? Numerous 700-800+hp cars and a STOCK longblock makes for an unreliable foundation for mods ? Dude, not sure what you're smoking. I have a 78k mi car that has been pullied(etc.) for 50k and a 125 shot for the last 25k. It gets its ass kicked DAILY. Runs like a champ.

Dunno everything there is to know about the new 5.0 plant...but the 4.6 in the Cobra is consistently proven to be an INCREDIBLY durable motor. Rarely do you hear about one letting go and when they do its usually a lean condition due to tuning or a subsystem failure.

Making hero runs in the mile aside, these motors make an insane amount of RELIABLE hp. Head over to the Terminator section and puke up that crap you're trying to feed me...school is in session.

I find it hard to believe in factory spec, the Coyote motor is a MORE reliable power plant.

You implied that people just run around with 700-800 WHP on a stock longblock with great reliablity or something. Okay you didn't say "amazingly reliable" you said "INCREDIBLY durable/insane amount of RELIABLE hp."

You're the one spouting a bunch of BS. I never once said "Cobra motors suck". I might have said they're a 655 lbs cast iron weight or something which they are. Yes mod the motor. It will handles some power, and boost but no more HP than a 5.0 if you want to keep both motors safe. If setup right a new 5.0 has no problem supporting 650+ whp. Built strong, and built reliable are two different things. Do I have to spell it out for you? Cobra iron block = strong and durable, Cobra forged Kellogg crank = good strong piece, Cobra Manley h-beams = good strong rod, Cobra forged piston = inherently strong but not designed for high PSI's. In general Cobra pistons do not cope well with higher temps from high boost. They're strong but they are designed for 8/9 PSI's from the M112, and not 18/19 PSI with a TS. They'll last a little will like that, but not overly likely if you beat on them. Even with your basic pulleyed Cobra you have to drive it with some care. Sustain boost in 5th/6th gear is a stupid idea on a pulleyed OEM motor. I'm not saying a Terminator motor is just unreliable, I'm just saying it's not overly reliable. Again it's a good strong motor, but they generally don't make a good 650 carefree whp day in and day out on OEM motors.

The new 5.0's mod for mod are way more efficient motors than Modulars, and they don't suffer from the problems the Terminator motors have, and while their OEM components aren't physically as strong as a Terminators they are plenty strong enough to live in what most would consider a good safety range for generally reliable HP from a OEM Terminator motor.

Still you do need to understand that while a Terminator motor is a pretty strong piece, it's not as special are many seem to think. About the only thing really uniquely special in a Terminator motor compared to any other boosted Modulars is it's Manley rods, and they are an awesome addition, but Ford didn't put them there to be nice, they used them because at the time they were trying to hurry up and develop this new SC'ed motor for the 2003 Cobra, and all the 4.6 factory Ford rods they had wouldn't hold up to what the motor was putting out during durability tests so they decided to not dick around and went with the Manley rods. These along with most OEM motors from all manufactures are built for as cheaply as they can be for whatever purpose they intend to use it for. Ford didn't say "lets buy the best rods/crank/block/pistons/etc that we can" they said things like "we need some forged pistons for this motor so lets go with the company who can produce a quality piece, cheap up with our production rate, and who sells them to us for the lowest bid." Again you can build a way better motor than what comes OEM in a Terminator.

Do you need me to explain anything else?

 

[BlueSnake01]

Boss 5.0>Cobra 4.6. More power stock without a blower, more potential, better heads, more displacement, VVT, better chassis. Don't get me wrong, I've struggled about whether to put a blower on my (non-Boss) 5.0 or buy a KB/Whipple Terminator, but bottom line is the Boss 5.0 is a better car.

Looks are subjective, I think the new edge cars looks old and cheap compared to a 10-12 GT.

Most of that can be used as an opinion. Having more power stock without a blower doesn't mean much when both are making similar power with similar size blower. The biggest difference in reality is the chassis, if the Cobra was a great handling car and close/superior still to the 5.0, lots of these pointless rants wouldn't exist. IMO the S197 still feel and look like big boats, nice upgrade over the first S197 but still not my cup of tea. Interior is nicer but I hate the gauges, seats, feel to it, I feel very small in it. NE along with the Foxbody's are still to me the best looking Mustang's, both look mean. Can care less about interior if im driving either one of those. I still see people driving 60's Mustangs even though their interior is crap to ours, you like it, that's all that matters.

From my point of view, both are great cars and part of the same family. Years from now, I expect the V6 Mustang to be superior to the 5.0 as the past one's have been, does that make the 5.0 a crap car? No!

If anything, its not that the 5.0 gives the Cobra a run mod for mod, in fact its the other way around. An almost 10 year old car still being considered a threat and giving these new cars a run is amazing.

Far as I know, my car is pushing 460+whp and has been very reliable for the past 2 years, my chasis, IRS, rear is even older and its still perfectly fine 11 years later.

Tune makes a huge difference, lets not forget the infamous cylinder 8 fail on a brand new car! Wasn't any different than the Cobra in its time and even now.

It really amazes me how people are really going on against each other. Soon we are both gonna be surpassed by a better engine years from now and it will most likely start with a V6.

Enjoy your damn car, Cobra or 5.0/Boss, they are both great cars with a lot of potential under the hood. As to which one holds more power, does it matter? 90% of either owners won't go past the simple bolt on's.

 

[Black*Death]

Look newb a Coyote is a way better motor than a 4.6 period. Quit acting stupid. Look at what you said:



You implied that people just run around with 700-800 WHP on a stock longblock with great reliablity or something. Okay you didn't say "amazingly reliable" you said "INCREDIBLY durable/insane amount of RELIABLE hp."

You're the one spouting a bunch of BS. I never once said "Cobra motors suck". I might have said they're a 655 lbs cast iron weight or something which they are. Yes mod the motor. It will handles some power, and boost but no more HP than a 5.0 if you want to keep both motors safe. If setup right a new 5.0 has no problem supporting 650+ whp. Built strong, and built reliable are two different things. Do I have to spell it out for you? Cobra iron block = strong and durable, Cobra forged Kellogg crank = good strong piece, Cobra Manley h-beams = good strong rod, Cobra forged piston = inherently strong but not designed for high PSI's. In general Cobra pistons do not cope well with higher temps from high boost. They're strong but they are designed for 8/9 PSI's from the M112, and not 18/19 PSI with a TS. They'll last a little will like that, but not overly likely if you beat on them. Even with your basic pulleyed Cobra you have to drive it with some care. Sustain boost in 5th/6th gear is a stupid idea on a pulleyed OEM motor. I'm not saying a Terminator motor is just unreliable, I'm just saying it's not overly reliable. Again it's a good strong motor, but they generally don't make a good 650 carefree whp day in and day out on OEM motors.

The new 5.0's mod for mod are way more efficient motors than Modulars, and they don't suffer from the problems the Terminator motors have, and while their OEM components aren't physically as strong as a Terminators they are plenty strong enough to live in what most would consider a good safety range for generally reliable HP from a OEM Terminator motor.

Still you do need to understand that while a Terminator motor is a pretty strong piece, it's not as special are many seem to think. About the only thing really uniquely special in a Terminator motor compared to any other boosted Modulars is it's Manley rods, and they are an awesome addition, but Ford didn't put them there to be nice, they used them because at the time they were trying to hurry up and develop this new SC'ed motor for the 2003 Cobra, and all the 4.6 factory Ford rods they had wouldn't hold up to what the motor was putting out during durability tests so they decided to not dick around and went with the Manley rods. These along with most OEM motors from all manufactures are built for as cheaply as they can be for whatever purpose they intend to use it for. Ford didn't say "lets buy the best rods/crank/block/pistons/etc that we can" they said things like "we need some forged pistons for this motor so lets go with the company who can produce a quality piece, cheap up with our production rate, and who sells them to us for the lowest bid." Again you can build a way better motor than what comes OEM in a Terminator.

Do you need me to explain anything else?

Firstly you realize the Cobra engine is a modular engine right? Car is still a Cobra not a Lambo? Ford is never going to put the best Rods/pistons out there in a mustang?

Of course you can buy a way better engine than the one in a Cobra...is that your attempt to inform Cobra owners?

So Ford was hurrying up to build the 2003 Cobra? Since there is no 2002 Cobra(except in Australia) not sure they were hurrying between 2001 and 2003?

I agree the Coyote engine is good but saying that doesn't mean a Cobra engine suddenly suxs? Not sure a hand built engine by SVT is suddenly crap?

Why so much hate for the Cobra? Did you crash yours or something?

 

[slagburn]

I would like to see a Terminator short block with 5.0 heads and tivct system swapped on. The Coyote block has a few areas that are lacking IMHO

 

[VNOMIS]

Most of that can be used as an opinion. Having more power stock without a blower doesn't mean much when both are making similar power with similar size blower. The biggest difference in reality is the chassis, if the Cobra was a great handling car and close/superior still to the 5.0, lots of these pointless rants wouldn't exist. IMO the S197 still feel and look like big boats, nice upgrade over the first S197 but still not my cup of tea. Interior is nicer but I hate the gauges, seats, feel to it, I feel very small in it. NE along with the Foxbody's are still to me the best looking Mustang's, both look mean. Can care less about interior if im driving either one of those. I still see people driving 60's Mustangs even though their interior is crap to ours, you like it, that's all that matters.

From my point of view, both are great cars and part of the same family. Years from now, I expect the V6 Mustang to be superior to the 5.0 as the past one's have been, does that make the 5.0 a crap car? No!

If anything, its not that the 5.0 gives the Cobra a run mod for mod, in fact its the other way around. An almost 10 year old car still being considered a threat and giving these new cars a run is amazing.

Far as I know, my car is pushing 460+whp and has been very reliable for the past 2 years, my chasis, IRS, rear is even older and its still perfectly fine 11 years later.

Tune makes a huge difference, lets not forget the infamous cylinder 8 fail on a brand new car! Wasn't any different than the Cobra in its time and even now.

It really amazes me how people are really going on against each other. Soon we are both gonna be surpassed by a better engine years from now and it will most likely start with a V6.

Enjoy your damn car, Cobra or 5.0/Boss, they are both great cars with a lot of potential under the hood. As to which one holds more power, does it matter? 90% of either owners won't go past the simple bolt on's.

No they don't make similar power with a similar blower. 2.8KB on a boss 5.0 makes more power than a 2.8KB on a cobra.

 

[Jroc]

Firstly you realize the Cobra engine is a modular engine right? Car is still a Cobra not a Lambo? Ford is never going to put the best Rods/pistons out there in a mustang?

Of course you can buy a way better engine than the one in a Cobra...is that your attempt to inform Cobra owners?

So Ford was hurrying up to build the 2003 Cobra? Since there is no 2002 Cobra(except in Australia) not sure they were hurrying between 2001 and 2003?

I agree the Coyote engine is good but saying that doesn't mean a Cobra engine suddenly suxs? Not sure a hand built engine by SVT is suddenly crap?

Why so much hate for the Cobra? Did you crash yours or something?

Am I talking to a total retard. How am I in any way giving the impression that I don't know what a Modular motor is? Didn't I already say that Ford isn't going to spend more than they have too to build a motor?

If y'all know that you can build a better than factory OEM motor then quite acting like it's Gods give to all people wanting the stoutest and most reliable OEM motor because it's not that.

Yeah Ford rushed getting the Cobra to market. They had 1.5 years to do it from when they started until it hit the market. Cars don't get developed in a day or two. Fords probably already designing, developing, and testing the future 2016 Mustang by now.

Read this book.
Amazon.com: Iron Fist, Lead Foot: John Coletti and Ford's "Terminator" (9780595409709): Frank Moriarty: Books

A Terminator motor does not suck. I'm building a 88 GT with one. It's just not as great as y'all are trying to convince yourself that it is. I would much rather have a new 5.0 to throw in my Foxbody then it would be about 220 lbs lighter up front. This isn't 2002 anymore. Back then it was an awesome motor, and if you had 400 whp you had a pretty bad ass ride. Do you not remember? I sure as shit do. It's been over 10 years since they first went on sell and other motors have caught up, and Ford sure didn't go backwards with the new 5.0 you better believe that. The new Coyotes are better motors than DOHC Modulars.(my bet is the next Cobra/GT500 will have a 5.0 based motor isn't of the new 5.8 Modular based motor) No they're not fully forged in OEM trim, but it doesn't matter. If you can push a new Coyote past what it's internals are capable of supporting when you have everything else like your tune and fuel system set up right then you should be able to build the motor.

I mean if someone took a OEM Terminator motor and running a TS made 700 whp with it and a month later he blows the engine and complains about it are you going to be like "that shouldn't happen," or would you be like "well that's your bad, and you have to pay to play, and you should of gone built."? I mean no a Terminators 4.6 is not a better motor. If the 5.0 motor blows at those kind of HP levels then why can't he go built like shit loads of Terminators already have? I mean Coyotes have better cranks, better oiling/cooling systems, their heads are tons better, they're way lighter, etc.


I don't hate Terminators. They're a badass car. Yes I wrecked mine back in 2010, but I loved the car, and had a blast driving everyday for going on 4 years. I'm just being real about it though, while most of the other Terminator owners aren't.(yes I own my wrecked Terminator) The new GT's are lighter, better balanced, better platform, better suspension, better handling, better built, better at almost everything. Be happy that Ford stepped it up with the 2011+ GT, and quit hating them for it. I'm building a Termifox, and it will likely beat a Terminators ass HP for HP when I'm finish, but does that make a 88 GT with a Terminator motor a better car than a actual Terminator when a old Foxbody is built on a older, and flimsier platform than a Terminator? Even if it isn't that doesn't mean that Foxbody Mustangs aren't cool ass cars, and it's going to be fast as shit so why should I be pissed that a 15 year newer Mustang is a better overall car than my old Foxbody? Why should I be pissed that Ford stepped it up with there next generation of v8 Mustang motors that is better than the one that will be in my Modular swapped Foxbody?

 

[Jroc]

I would like to see a Terminator short block with 5.0 heads and tivct system swapped on. The Coyote block has a few areas that are lacking IMHO

You won't see it last for long as Modular's and Coyote's aren't the same even if they share the same footprint. Different coolant passages, etc. Besides why not start from scratch and build a much better shortblock than what's OEM on a Terminator if you could do that?

 

[Qwk GT]

Its not rocket science, the 5.0 has a larger displacement and higher compression, so yeah they produce good power, with or without mods.

Can they live with boost, I'm sure. But I wouldn't trust one to run as long as a similar factory terminator motor. Most high boost high hp coyotes have had the internals replaced and built. (Even the OP claims a built motor) They may not have done anything witht the topend as I'm assuming the heads/cams flow well, but the fact that people have to already build these motors to handle the boost shows something IMO. I dont' remember many terminators building them when throwing 20lbs of boost years ago.

And saying terminator motors aren't reliable at 700-800 hp, well depending on tune and how the owner treats it, yeah it could go. But the fact that some actually live at these levels without grenading the motor is still pretty amazing.

And while while some (due to owner or tune or both) may be living on borrowed time, with proper cooling mods and tune they last much better than other cars. Which says something.

And regarding the comment about being better handling, quaility, yadda yadda. They come with coil overs, even stiffer/optional suspension upgrades on top of this, and panhard bar. It handles better I'd assume to this more than some kind of magical chasis.

All the talk of well put a blower on the 5.0, build the motor of the 5.0 like the terminator... bla bla. Kind of sounds like ricer talk. Terminator owners could say, well give me coil overs, give me a larger engine..... Can go both ways. 2 different cars with 2 different packages to make power and handle.