Dude, chill the fk out. No body is discrediting the build. Yes I read the entire thread... this must be your first turbo'd car. Do your research.
Twin Turbo 5.0 Build
- Thread starter KenB
- Start date
Dude, chill the fk out. No body is discrediting the build. Yes I read the entire thread... this must be your first turbo'd car. Do your research.
I'm am calm, you obviously are not. I told you why you are wrong yet you didn't respond to that.
Newsflash, guess who's shop built the quickest 3V turbo car 3 years ago that no one has beat yet? That would be my shop. So, no, it's not my first turbo car.
I wasn't trying to be a jerk but you're posting about stuff that has already been proven. I could see if the car didn't have 1000 miles on it already, been on the dyno etc, but it has and we have no issues. So I'm confused as to why you brought it up.
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Maybe you don't get what I'm saying?
Perhaps these pictures would give a better example of what I mean.
The 1st manifold will creep less than the 2nd one, simply because of the wg placement.
Ah btw, are you saying that your kit is twinscroll ?
Perhaps these pictures would give a better example of what I mean.
The 1st manifold will creep less than the 2nd one, simply because of the wg placement.
Ah btw, are you saying that your kit is twinscroll ?
Maybe you don't get what I'm saying?
Perhaps these pictures would give a better example of what I mean.
The 1st manifold will creep less than the 2nd one, simply because of the wg placement.
Ah btw, are you saying that your kit is twinscroll ?
I know what you are saying but let me say this, both of those are not very good. The both have poor wastegate priority. Almost no kits seem to care about wastegate priority which is really the key to it all.
In addition, I've already told you that we have run the car at 7 psi with zero issue.
Those are not good? wow... lol
Those are full-race manifolds. Not sure if you know who Full-race is, but those manifolds are running 8s on 2.0L Hondas... making 1000whp.. just saying.
Well, if those WGs of yours worked fine... that's good to hear... I'm not trying to put your car, build, parts, etc down in anyways... it was just a remark that someone else mentioned and I agreed with it. Again, nice car... I hope to do something similar with my 5.0L
EXACTLY! You just proved my point. On a car like that, wastegate placement is not very important because to make that much power, the wastegate isn't flowing all that much. Wastegate priority because much more critical at low boost. The 3V car I mentioned was done in a similar way because it was the same case, we were running the turbo so hard WG priority was not as important. So when I said they weren't good, I meant for low boost.
No problem and I appreciate the comments. I think you are just trying to apply knowledge you obviously have to a setup where it doesn't exactly apply the same.
Think of it this way, on this car if I was making 1200 rwhp (which the turbos would support) the WG placment because even less critical because they would barely even be open. Most of the exhaust at that point would be going through the turbine.
I really do encourage you to do some searching around about giving the wastegate better priority than the turbine.
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They also run those wastegates on 400whp Hondas... on DD cars. It ranges a lot lol
It's all good man...
do you have videos of your car? have you tracked it yet?
This isn't my car. I'm just building it with Jake Long. The car is owned by Jon Lund.
It's going to the track tomorrow night on drag radials. I posted a video earlier in this thread of it's first night out. I couldn't get the street tires to work at all so just rolled out to the 300 ft point and nailed it.
Based on that, I'm thinking 10.7@133 on 8psi tomorrow night. It all depends on how I can get the car to 60' on the stock converter.
All ready for the track
CPRsm
Active Member
No, not really. They probably work. But not ideal. Exh gas is a dumb. You have to make it easy for it to get out. In both of those pictures the gas has to completely change directions to get to the gate valve. Looks like even more than a 90deg change in both pics
Ehhh, 99% of the time you're correct. Some times is can creep up top. That usually happens when drive pressure requirements are low at higher hp levels. WG's work off and expected back pressure ratio. Go below it..... Tried to stay our of your thread. :lol1: Those manifolds are pretty. But not WG prioritized. About as good as you can do probably given the space in the car though
No worries. Our setups will be pretty different anyway. You're allowed in my thread if you are mostly agreeing with me. Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
CPRsm
Active Member
Lol, 1 out of 2 ain't bad !!
Setup looks great!
Yup, the flange is at a 90 degree due to fitment issues. In my case, i got the flange changed to a 60mm for a 60mm wastegate and the angle is way less, more like a 45 degree.
Can't wait to see this thing in action man.
You don't understang the whole "priority" thing. Both of those designs make the exhaust gas make a 90 degree turn from the direction the gas is going through the collector in order to get to the wastegate. In that design, the turbine housing has priority.
Here is a header from a champ car. You can see the collector flows to the wg flange, and the turn feeds the tubine housing. This design is what Ken is referring to.
You don't understang the whole "priority" thing. Both of those designs make the exhaust gas make a 90 degree turn from the direction the gas is going through the collector in order to get to the wastegate. In that design, the turbine housing has priority.
Here is a header from a champ car. You can see the collector flows to the wg flange, and the turn feeds the tubine housing. This design is what Ken is referring to.
Did you miss the above post? The one right above your post?
I have a good understanding of the exhaust flow and how/why it'd creep.
That manifold you posted, looks like it wouldn't creep at all.
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I missed that you had already dyno'd it without boost creep issues at 7 psi. If you did that on 38's then your most likely correct. And yes, USUALLY if it doesnt creep at low boost, it wont creep at high boost. I was referring to over 1200whp on lets say, 35 psi. If all the air being forced into the engine by the comp wheels gets backed up by the 38mm gates then you could have creep you didnt have before, but I'm sure you'd run larger gates on a high hp setup.
If you have it routed like the champ pic a few posts up then I'm sure it will be fine then. I work at a performance shop and we do alot of turbo domestic's as well as imports. We don't worry about swapping out wastegate springs that often because we run this new invention called a boost controller, lol. We just figure out the lowest psi we'll ever need, put those springs in and call it a day. Turn up the boost with a controller and we're good to go.
I'm not trying to bust your balls man, just being honest. Don't think I'm hating or anything, the kit looks great. I think I just would have put the gates down low and ran an air to air. I'm not a fan of adding all the weight of the lines and the tank in the rear. The ice idea is fine and well but obviously not practical for a street car. Plus the PT2000 (I think thats what you have?) is heavy too and it's mounted on the driver side further making the weight unequal. For a drag car it may not matter but since most people are driving their 11's on the street I just think I would have done a few small things differently. I'd like to see a pic of the headers though if you have any.
So far I'm tossed up betweens JPC's and AFI's single kits because they add the least amount of weight and are both good for 600whp+ on no more than 6 psi. But I'm going to choose my own turbo from precision (being that I'm a WD) and spoolup is VERY important to me.
If you have it routed like the champ pic a few posts up then I'm sure it will be fine then. I work at a performance shop and we do alot of turbo domestic's as well as imports. We don't worry about swapping out wastegate springs that often because we run this new invention called a boost controller, lol. We just figure out the lowest psi we'll ever need, put those springs in and call it a day. Turn up the boost with a controller and we're good to go.
I'm not trying to bust your balls man, just being honest. Don't think I'm hating or anything, the kit looks great. I think I just would have put the gates down low and ran an air to air. I'm not a fan of adding all the weight of the lines and the tank in the rear. The ice idea is fine and well but obviously not practical for a street car. Plus the PT2000 (I think thats what you have?) is heavy too and it's mounted on the driver side further making the weight unequal. For a drag car it may not matter but since most people are driving their 11's on the street I just think I would have done a few small things differently. I'd like to see a pic of the headers though if you have any.
So far I'm tossed up betweens JPC's and AFI's single kits because they add the least amount of weight and are both good for 600whp+ on no more than 6 psi. But I'm going to choose my own turbo from precision (being that I'm a WD) and spoolup is VERY important to me.
Exactly my thoughts as well. 100%.
+1 on Precision turbos :rockon:
I'd like to also see a pic of the manifold myself.
Let me say it for the 20th time. This build is legit and no one is knocking on it.
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Understandable. Our design isn't for everyone. If you want a single with an air to air, there are probably 4-5 choices out there.
That is not a PT intercooler, not sure why you would make that assumption. It's a custom one built with a Bell core. I stand behind our decision for an air to water 100%. Especially after all the data I have collected in the last week daily driving this car. This setup is better than I even expected. I have a lot of experience on these cars and I have yet to see an air to air perform on the street like our air to water does. But like I said, once I have more time I will prepare all the data in an easy to digest post.
But I'm not here to prove anything with pictures and theory. This is just to give people an inside look at building a car like this.
I will prove our setup at the drag strip, Texas mile, multiple road courses and of course the street. And I will post all relevant data that supports our design. Is this data available for any other kit? Supercharger or Turbo?
So no one has to agree with me. They just have to look at how our setup performs, consider the data I will provide and make up their minds for themselves.
Also, to comment on the wastegate spring swap. I agree on the boost controller and that is how I would want it. But when I build a kit I also consider how the customer wants it. I've been tuning car for almost 10 years. My shop at one point had 2 dyno's that would be going non stop all week. And probably half the people didn't have boost controllers. So my design allows the customer to decide if they want to use a boost controller or swap out springs. Why make the customer compromise if I don't have to.
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